Help with new horse!

[gallopinghooves]

Hi everyone,

I'd really love some (more!) help.

My situation:

I brought a horse last week. She was gorgeous to ride when I tried her - super relaxed and easy. She had come from a home where she was the only horse for a little bit but regularly went to fun rides etc., then she went to the sales livery where she was turned out by her self only for 30 mins a day (awful I know..). She did not get any hard feed at sales livery.

I got her last week and moved her to a nice livery yard where there are around 7 other horses. She gets turnout for half a day with others. She gets two (small) feeds a day plus ad lib hay. The feed doesn't seem to be 'hotting' her up because she's v relaxed apart from the following issue.

We went on a very gentle 25 min walking hack with two other horses - she was great. A little bit tense but expected as everything very new to her!

I then took her into the school where she lost it. She kept rearing and spinning and calling for the other horses (she can see them from the school) and felt like she was going to explode. I got off her and she bolted. Then my YO rode her and she reared but then calmed down to an extent. Gave her a few days to settle and then this morning tried to lunge her. She freaked out again as away from others and reared a lot which terrified me. Finally got her into a rhythm and then took her back to the yard. She then refused to go into the stable and started rearing - this I understand because the others were in the field (the YO splits the day so she was going out in afternoon).

my issue is that rearing terrifies me. I think it is SO dangerous. I know it is from fear and the fact she doesn't want to be separated but will rearing always be her way out of situations she doesn't like. I don't see how I would take her hacking by myself...

I messaged the dealer who said she genuinely never once reared with her. and I asked previous owner who said the same.

Maybe she doesn't like the yard or she just needs time...But I'm scared.

Has anyone experienced this / similar?

I basically have two options; sell her for a lot less than I paid or pay a fortune to have her in fulll livery being trained. The dealer will have her back but id have to pay for sales livery etc.

(nb, I was looking for a safe, reliable horse to hack out on and take to fun rides etc...A been there, done that sort).

 

[Fieldlife]

Sounds like separation anxiety related to where the other horses are.

She might settle, maybe you could try and work her in company for next few weeks?

It can be tricky bringing some horses into stable when all the others are out. But it sounds like half the yard were still in, when she didnt want to be stabled?

When you say rearing, how high is she going, right up vertical would be a pretty big red flag, but small bunny hops in panic and frustration, less so.

There is possibly something different about your new yard set up that she doesnt like. I moved a past horse from American barn set up to individual stables, and he HATED the stable and stressed. Moving him to one where can touch through bars at front was much better.

Might the current yard owner be willing to do a month of full livery, working her and assessing her to see if she might settle down into what you want.

I'd also possibly cut out all bucket feed for the time being and just go for hay, and a scoop of low sugar chaff when others are fed.

 

[Fieldlife]

from your earlier post, is she now on individual turnout? And is she used to that and okay with that? Some horses hate it!

 

[JBM]

You can return the horse within 30 days for a refund or suitable swap
You do not have to pay her sales livery

I do think she’s experiencing separation anxiety as she’s never got to be out with horses and it will calm with reassurance but rearing is dangerous and it is her go to for stress that won’t change

 

[Timelyattraction]

If the dealer was reputable I would expect them to take her back with no quibbles as it was never disclosed that she reared (she may not have done with them but it’s obviously her go to thing). I think she just needs time to settle but if you’re not confident pushing her through it then it’s hard. How about doing some groundwork with her whilst she’s still settling in and go from there if you want to try and push through. Get her out long reining etc

 

[gallopinghooves]

If the dealer was reputable I would expect them to take her back with no quibbles as it was never disclosed that she reared (she may not have done with them but it’s obviously her go to thing). I think she just needs time to settle but if you’re not confident pushing her through it then it’s hard. How about doing some groundwork with her whilst she’s still settling in and go from there if you want to try and push through. Get her out long reining etc

I tried groundwork but she also rears when I'm on the ground. Basically anytime she's not with the other horses. And it's terrifying...She's 16.1hh and they're not small rears! But other than that she is a genuine horse who seems easy. She is very sweet to handle and groom and when we hacked out she wasn't spooky or anything. It's just this. But I think rearing is the last thing you want

 

[gallopinghooves]

I should note, she is in season!

 

[gallopinghooves]

You can return the horse within 30 days for a refund or suitable swap
You do not have to pay her sales livery

I do think she’s experiencing separation anxiety as she’s never got to be out with horses and it will calm with reassurance but rearing is dangerous and it is her go to for stress that won’t change

I've also read that but I don't have a warranty so not sure if I have a leg to stand on?

 

[Timelyattraction]

Have you tried long reining reining her? If your behind her you should be able to keep pushing her on through, maybe someone more experienced can help you do it if you’re not confident and also someone at the front with her as well as someone behind her to start with.

You don’t need a warranty to return the horse to a dealer, all dealers should take back in 30 days regardless if there’s any issues like this.

 

[Timelyattraction]

If she’s in season and she’s that type of mare then that probably isn’t helping

 

[kerrieberry2]

I would go back to basics and start with ground work and dont get on her until you feel confident! she will know if you're stressed and she will feed off that.

if it makes you feel better, I've had my mare for 3 years, last year I moved my 3 horses to a new yard and the first time I brought her in, she was with 2 horses she knew from the old yard, she was absolutely wild! I couldn't do anything with her! I ended up in tears and thought I'd ruined her! I tried to take her in the school and she run away from me in there! cantering up and down, I could only catch her with feed.

the next day I bought her in again with my gelding and she was as good as gold! so I had to make sure she was brought in with him for the first few weeks until she was settled.

so if there is a nice quiet horse you can use as a buddy then I'd recommend that! or only do work with her when they're all in for the night and she doesn't feel like she's being dragged away from her new friends!

GOOD LUCK

 

[gallopinghooves]

I would go back to basics and start with ground work and dont get on her until you feel confident! she will know if you're stressed and she will feed off that.

if it makes you feel better, I've had my mare for 3 years, last year I moved my 3 horses to a new yard and the first time I brought her in, she was with 2 horses she knew from the old yard, she was absolutely wild! I couldn't do anything with her! I ended up in tears and thought I'd ruined her! I tried to take her in the school and she run away from me in there! cantering up and down, I could only catch her with feed.

the next day I bought her in again with my gelding and she was as good as gold! so I had to make sure she was brought in with him for the first few weeks until she was settled.

so if there is a nice quiet horse you can use as a buddy then I'd recommend that! or only do work with her when they're all in for the night and she doesn't feel like she's being dragged away from her new friends!

GOOD LUCK

Thank you, that's reassuring. I do know she will settle with time, my fear is just that will rearing always be her way out if she's in a situation she doesn't like, like on a hack by herself. I used to ride a nappy horse but he would just plant, he would never have reared. That's what I'm worrying about

 

[gallopinghooves]

Have you tried long reining reining her? If your behind her you should be able to keep pushing her on through, maybe someone more experienced can help you do it if you’re not confident and also someone at the front with her as well as someone behind her to start with.

You don’t need a warranty to return the horse to a dealer, all dealers should take back in 30 days regardless if there’s any issues like this.

My YO is going to help me long rein her. Definitely a good idea, thank you

 

[PeterNatt]

Galloping Hooves! Under the Sales of Good Act you have every right to return the horse to the dealer and obtain a full refund. You are not responsible for any additional fees. If you are a member of the BHS then you can obtain some initial free legal advice.
Consumer Rights Act 1 October 2015
This legislation covers all goods including horses, livery yards, riding lessons, and horsebox repairs.
As a customer, you enter into a contract with a retailer when you buy a product.
Under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 (if entered into or after 1 October 2015) or the Sales of Goods Act 1979 (if entered before then) the retailer of the product has to ensure it is of satisfactory quality at the time of sale.
This means it should be fit for its purpose, free from minor defects, safe and durable.
As a result of this, the retailer is in breach of the contract, and under the 2015 Act the purchaser is entitled to a repair or replacement.
The retailer should do this within a reasonable amount of time, without causing any significant inconvenience and it should cover all the associated costs.
One can enforce this right for up to six years from the date of the breach, regardless of whether you have a warranty.
It is also an offence to give consumers misleading information about their legal rights.
Buyers have the right to a 30 day refund for faulty, not as described (always keep advert) or not fit for purpose goods bought from a business such as dealers.

 

[ycbm]

I've also read that but I don't have a warranty so not sure if I have a leg to stand on?

Are you in the UK? You have the Sale of Goods Act in the UK and if the seller is a dealer that applies. If the seller was only acting as an agent for the owner then there could be a messy situation of you want to send her back and the dealer won't take her.


ETA if the dealer owned her, she has to take her back and refund you, she cannot demand to sell her again on sales livery.
.

 

[kerrieberry2]

Thank you, that's reassuring. I do know she will settle with time, my fear is just that will rearing always be her way out if she's in a situation she doesn't like, like on a hack by herself. I used to ride a nappy horse but he would just plant, he would never have reared. That's what I'm worrying about

that one I can't comment on! but every horse has a rear in them. even my mare reared the first time I walked her out in hand, 3 years ago, but has never **touches wood** done it while I'm riding her!

my gelding on the other hand has done it when riding but it was never done with an intention to get me off, it was to let me know he was in pain!

I guess she didn't rear with you on her? so maybe try and do some digging to find out whether she's ever been a rearer before, but hopefully it was just a fear response and something that was just a one off that won't happen again!

 

[millitiger]

Send her back for a refund, quote your Consumer Rights and threaten with Small Claims if needed.

I'm usually one on the side of the horse and settling in etc. but in this case, I don't see why you should deal with what sounds like very severe behaviour in hand and under saddle.

 

[nutjob]

Have you checked on any of the dodgy dealer fb pages if the person you got her from is mentioned on there?

 

[gallopinghooves]

Are you on the UK? You have the Sale of Good's Act in the UK and if the seller is a dealer that applies. If the seller was only acting as an agent for the owner then there could be a messy situation of you want to send her back and the dealer won't take her.


ETA of the dealer owned her, she has to take her back and refund you, she cannot demand to sell her again on sales livery.
.

This is where it gets complicated. I never gave it any thought at the time (stupid me!) but I ended up paying the seller direct even though I was dealing with the dealer...

 

[gallopinghooves]

Have you checked on any of the dodgy dealer fb pages if the person you got her from is mentioned on there?

yes, only good things...

 

[Amymay Again]

Send her back.

 

[ester]

The difference between private seller and dealer is private seller - must be as described, dealer - fit for purpose. The not as described works better if you have evidence that the horse has behaved similarly previously.

Some mares can be very clingy - even more so if she’s now in season and had no company before. It is quite likely she’s never behaved quite so extremely before.

 

[nutjob]

Send her back.

Not so simple unfortunately, when it's a sales livery where the op has not paid the dealer, but has paid the owner directly.

 

[Equi]

Don’t mess about humming and haaing. Regardless if she never did it with the dealer she’s done it with you and as a dealer they have to take her back and refund. It’s law. Consumer rights act 2015.

Send her back now. If they refuse, send her back anyway and take them to court for the money.

Edit: if it’s sales livery then it’s tricky. Sorry.

 

[ycbm]

This is where it gets complicated. I never gave it any thought at the time (stupid me!) but I ended up paying the seller direct even though I was dealing with the dealer...

Then you almost certainly do not have the protection of the Sale of Goods Act, sorry.

This sounds like something caused by the move, I hope she settles very soon and turns into your horse of a lifetime.
.

 

[jkitten]

I was unlucky enough to buy a mare like this 18 months ago. Similar scenario, apparently reputable dealer and horse pretty good 80% of the time, except when she saw another horse she knew going somewhere she wants at which point she would absolutely lose it, rearing, bronking and generally having a complete meltdown to the point where she once fell over (fortunately I had already come off). This was a horse that was marketed as 'novice ride' and 'suitable for riding school', which was exactly what I wanted, being a first time owner and needing to keep her on working livery.

The dealer said she would do a swap but swore up and down she was golden so, since the horse was sweet other than these episodes (which initially there were only one or two of as I was mainly hacking in company), the YO - who had rehabbed a number of other horses with behavioural issues - and I decided she was probably just settling and we could work with it.

BIG MISTAKE. I won't bore you with the details but she never did improve, I just learned to sit her tantrums better. It got to the point where the YO and I sat down together and came to the conclusion that it might take years before I could do the sorts of things I wanted to on her, and that she'd likely never be trustworthy enough to go on the school license which was a must for me for various reasons.

I later saw text messages from the dealer talking about how unpredictable the mare had been while at her yard, to the point that she had been on Regumate and viewings had been carefully curated so she'd not be able to see any other horses. By this point the 30 days had long expired and I had to threaten court action to get even half my money back.

The point of the story is, OP please be honest with yourself about how much you can really put into this horse, and whether you can accept that it might be years before she gets better, if she ever does. It's kinder to you and the horse. I wish I had sent Tulip back after her first episode, the life I had to offer clearly wasn't suitable for her and it would have been much better for both of us not to draw it out.

 

[I'm Dun]

I've also read that but I don't have a warranty so not sure if I have a leg to stand on?

You do.You have the full backing of the law. But prepare yourself for a fight. Act now. Join one of the dodgy dealer groups on FB ad get advice on how best to go about it. And do it quickly.

Edit, just seen you paid the seller. How was the horse described in the ad? Rearing is one of those things that if they've lied about it you have good ground to return her.

 

[gallopinghooves]

Update! Seller has agreed to give me money back as she's very upset that she is rearing as apparently never done it before and wants what's best for both of us...so that's great. But now I just feel massively guilty and like I've let the poor horse down and she's going to be so confused agh!!

I've also spent so much money on vettings, transport, livery...BUT I know in the grand scheme of things, it's a drop in the ocean. Can't put a price on safety. It's more the guilt eating me up...

 

[gallopinghooves]

I was unlucky enough to buy a mare like this 18 months ago. Similar scenario, apparently reputable dealer and horse pretty good 80% of the time, except when she saw another horse she knew going somewhere she wants at which point she would absolutely lose it, rearing, bronking and generally having a complete meltdown to the point where she once fell over (fortunately I had already come off). This was a horse that was marketed as 'novice ride' and 'suitable for riding school', which was exactly what I wanted, being a first time owner and needing to keep her on working livery.

The dealer said she would do a swap but swore up and down she was golden so, since the horse was sweet other than these episodes (which initially there were only one or two of as I was mainly hacking in company), the YO - who had rehabbed a number of other horses with behavioural issues - and I decided she was probably just settling and we could work with it.

BIG MISTAKE. I won't bore you with the details but she never did improve, I just learned to sit her tantrums better. It got to the point where the YO and I sat down together and came to the conclusion that it might take years before I could do the sorts of things I wanted to on her, and that she'd likely never be trustworthy enough to go on the school license which was a must for me for various reasons.

I later saw text messages from the dealer talking about how unpredictable the mare had been while at her yard, to the point that she had been on Regumate and viewings had been carefully curated so she'd not be able to see any other horses. By this point the 30 days had long expired and I had to threaten court action to get even half my money back.

The point of the story is, OP please be honest with yourself about how much you can really put into this horse, and whether you can accept that it might be years before she gets better, if she ever does. It's kinder to you and the horse. I wish I had sent Tulip back after her first episode, the life I had to offer clearly wasn't suitable for her and it would have been much better for both of us not to draw it out.

Gosh, that's mad. How people falsely advertise is beyond me - it's so dangerous. Poor you...I hope it improves for you. By the way, I love the name Tulip so much! But yes, you're right - I don't have the expertise for this!

 

[Equi]

You’re very lucky for that. Take the horse back and move on from it, not every horse suits every home.