Help with pony bucking

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Person bought pony for her 9 year old daughter. They tried it out and all was fine. Boxed fine. Brought him home. He has a lovely personality. Nice natured. No problem. Lunges no problem. Had shoes put on no problem.

When somene gets on this ponies back (bareback or saddled), he bucks them off - now, this pony gives no indication he's going to buck. No ears back, no tail swishing and no putting head between his legs - but the buck is high and the rider comes off somersaulting through the air.

They had the ponies teeth checked, had a bit if rasping done but all was fine - he was also fine for the dentist.

They had a saddle fitted by a saddle fitter.

They sent him to a lady who schools and breaks in welshies/small ponies. He did the bucking etc. This lady has stated the bucks are lethal and dangerous, stating she has been breaking etc. for years and not come across anything like this. Get rid.

The pony is...
Cross xmoor gelding
13hh ish
6/7 years old (confirmed by dentist)
Nothing seems to bother him.
Bought for £400
No passport

I haven't met the pony but when I heard this pony maybe sent on to a bloke that sends ponies abroad for slaughter, I felt that this pony needed more time and some help. I have offered to take the pony in and this offer so far as been accepted - no money is exchanging hands. I have asked the present owner to sort passport out which she is doing. She has spoken to passport agency. She is going to get the vet out this week re passport and have back checked (at my request).

Things sound pretty bad re this pony but he is so young - if it's not medical then what's happened to him.

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

Many thanks.
 
I take it that the pony was ok when they tried him out or they wouldn't have bought him. Try and find out as much from previous owner, there is always a reason why they buck you just have to find out what causes it. could be he has a sore back.
 
Sorry I should have said - The child did get on him and walked up and down the road and all was fine. He was more docile then apparently. Child wanted the pony.

Original owner of pony isn't being very forthcoming and isn't interested.
 
hmm.
I would get a physio or similar out (after getting a vet to check him), bucking is usually pain related.
However he could have learnt that bucking = rider off = no more work. Sadly if its not pain related and its a learnt behaviour it may be a hell of a job re-educating him as serious buckers or rearers are bloody dangerous and not many people want to risk their neck with them. There could be a million reasons why hes doing it but I think to rule out pain would be sensible first.
 
Thats a shame. If the lady will let you take him on as a project, I'd have a go with him and take it slowly, check his back and belly for senstive skin or heat. lunge him with saddle on and see how he reacts with it:):):)
 
Why not send the pony back to the original seller? It is not suitable for a child. They would get their money back if they took it to court, it happened to someone in the Pony Club, the pony bucked when it landed over a jump and the child fell off, naturally.

It does sound a bit like "learned behaviour" it also sounds as though he might have been given "something" when they tried it. I had no idea these substances were around until I had to have my horse sedated when he finished box rest and I was astonished how many sedation drugs there are around and how easy they are to obtain.
 
Sounds like a learned behaviour. If it was a response to pain I'd exepct to see some signs, tail swishing etc as well as a graduated approach, small bucks then increasingly more serious. It sounds like this lad has figured out how to get its small rider off as easily and quickly as possible.

If the last owner was a dealer then they have broken the law by selling without a passport. (They have anyway - but private sellers seldom get prosecuted.) If there is a freeze mark or something you might try putting it through NED and the various stolen horse websites. But the new owner can still return the pony to a dealer under the sale of goods act.

If it was a private seller then I'm afraid it is much harder. It is possible the pony was doped for the trial which is why it was more docile - but that will be very hard to prove. It would be irresponsible to keep the pony - the child could get injured. But they won't be able to sell it on for anything other than meat at this point. You could possibly try to send it away for re-breaking, or try to break it to harness as a driving pony. In extremis - I'm sorry but the responsible thing would be to have it PTS.

And never by a horse - no matter how cheap - without a passport and a vetting.
 
Although it is absolutely worth getting his back checked, I agree that it does sound like a behavioural response - unless there is really something acutely and instantly very painful as you get on, then this much of a quick reaction sounds more like a fear/instinct/learned response than simply pain.
Which I think is a good thing, because behaviours, associations and habbits and phobias can all be relearned, but not all medical problems can be fixed.
However, its really very difficult to give any advice as to where to start without more information, how does he react if you just lean over him?
My aim would be to try to find something he is fine with and work gently from there until you can pinpoint the problem - is it the height of a rider above him, in his blindpot, the weight, or the movement of a rider that triggerts it, is it when you get your stirrup and touch his elbow, when you bum hits the saddle, or when you actually ask him to move. Is it the moutning process itself?
The trickiest thing is going to be his size because of finding a suitable jockey I guess. I would certianly think about doing as much education on longlines as possible if you are going to be too tall to ride yourself (and if you are small enough then I'm deeply jealous!!), it might shed some light on some areas you can improve before getting a rider involved.
Also, it would be useful to know what the pony starting lady tried, what worked and what didn't and what he has learned(good or bad) from his time there, the more you know the better! Good luck and keep us updated! :)
 
I would get an adult with a superglue bum on him, see if it is just that he's learnt that little child goes flying when he puts in a buck.

If he still does it and pain ruled out, I'd PTS I'm afraid. Too dangerous to sell on xxxx
 
Shay said:
If it was a response to pain I'd exepct to see some signs, tail swishing etc as well as a graduated approach, small bucks then increasingly more serious.
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Actually my horse who is just coming back into work told me that she had a bad back by bucking with absolutely no warning (and I know her well) as a pain reaction to noise, which I know sounds odd but it seems that throaty noises, such as diesel engines were the last straw for her.

Having said that I wouldn't be surprised if this was learned behaviour. After checks to make sure that all is well physically, I would find an experienced adult who is only just not too heavy for the pony and re-school him.
I too wouldn't be surprised to find that this pony had been 'doped' in some way to make him 'docile' for the sale. I think that this shows that you really do need to give a thorough trial, with an experienced person present, before agreeing to buy, not just a quick walk up and down. IMO this is more important that the vetting.
 
Something is odd here; if the pony was ridden by the child before purchase and without bucking, then perhaps it was doped or on pain killers at the time. If so, then it could be pain related.

The fact the pony was ridden and seemed OK raises a serious doubt in my mind.

If no money is changing hands, then it's an interesting project and it could be you end up with a happy pony that can be ridden again.

Good luck and well done for giving the pony a chance.
 
I agree it sounds like he was probably doped when tried out. People who do that (especially when they know they're selling for a child) deserve to roast slowly in the bowels of hell.

It will be interesting to find out what the back check reveals. Since he does it with or without saddle, it does sound like it could be pain. If it's not, you certainly have an interesting challenge.

Good luck with it all.
 
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