Help with unwanted sharers in field.

To be honest i feel sorry for the people renting it at the moment. I imagine they feel they have a contract with the letting agent.
You didn't want the field so someone else took it over. For some reason you expected them to involve you in some way (?) Seems odd. They were paying rent direct to the owner, not sure why you needed to be involved.
Now you want it back.
It's unlikely you're going to get two horses 'within days'.
Do you actually want a horse or just don't want your old friends to have the field?
 
To be honest i feel sorry for the people renting it at the moment. I imagine they feel they have a contract with the letting agent.
You didn't want the field so someone else took it over. For some reason you expected them to involve you in some way (?) Seems odd. They were paying rent direct to the owner, not sure why you needed to be involved.
Now you want it back.
It's unlikely you're going to get two horses 'within days'.
Do you actually want a horse or just don't want your old friends to have the field?
I agree with this, plus it really doesn’t sound worth all the drama. Just let them get on with it and if you really want another horse find somewhere else.
 
To be honest i feel sorry for the people renting it at the moment. I imagine they feel they have a contract with the letting agent.
You didn't want the field so someone else took it over. For some reason you expected them to involve you in some way (?) Seems odd. They were paying rent direct to the owner, not sure why you needed to be involved.
Now you want it back.
......


Have to agree with this I'm afraid. If I had rented a field for a year and paid rent direct to the owner or the owners agent, I'd be a bit miffed if someone who previously rented the field suddenly demanded to have it back.
 
Have to agree with this I'm afraid. If I had rented a field for a year and paid rent direct to the owner or the owners agent, I'd be a bit miffed if someone who previously rented the field suddenly demanded to have it back.

Me too.

If I was the landowner, I'd be pretty miffed if I had found out that the lessor had sublet and gone awol for a good time. If the place is a mess on inspection then I'd be giving notice to all parties for breach of contract (changing lessor without notice to owner is highly likely to be a breach and should be in the contract) and taking the land back.
Actually, I'd be bloody fuming at the original lessor.
 
You need some proper legal advice, which it would have been better to seek before paying the next year's rent. If you are a BHS Gold member, ring their legal helpline.

^^^ This.

Your problem is a compound one and I feel you would benefit from some good legal advice here.

I'm not sure I've got the right grasp of things however:

Soooh, you took this land on, for a number of agreed years, but didn't pay the final year, yes? So your "friend" then paid for the remaining year. But who did she pay? Was it you? Or the land agent direct?? The problem is that at that point, if you didn't want the field anymore, you should have gone straight back to the letting agents to let them know, because if you did let the friend take over the tenancy without telling them you were TBH in breach of contract. As a landlord myself I wouldn't have been happy with that!

And who is paying for the field now?? You? Or her?? Or is she paying part of the rent direct to the land agent?? Are you paying the other part?? Jeez, if this is the case then talk about complicating things!

Because if YOU have paid for the field - all of it - and she has paid nothing, she is there illegally. However if you have each paid a part-share, then you are jointly legally "tenants".

You said that your fear was that she would go to the land agents and tell them that there was a subletting issue going on.

Frankly the whole thing is one big mess!

I think that YOU OP need to speak to the letting agents as a matter of priority; tell them exactly what is going on. If you have any photographic evidence of the alleged state the field/premises have been left in by these people, then show this to the land agents!!

Seek legal advice, yes, I think you need it! But if I were the letting agent then I know what I would do and that would be to issue Recovery proceedings immediately to take back the land! End of.

Perhaps I haven't got hold the right end of the stick with the exact circumstances here, but I think frankly that a situation has been allowed to get way out of hand and the only solution is for radical action!
 
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There’s quite a lot going on here, so does this seem right;

You signed a five year lease.

Year one, you moved onto the field.

Year two, your friend joined you.

Year three, you and your friend shared the field and during that time you sold your horse.

Year four, you agreed your friend could keeping using the field and your friend paid directly to the land agent.

Year five, this year, you want to get another horse and move back into the field.

Is that the timeline?
 
If you have a five year tenancy then you would still have the tenancy in your name and the field is your ultimate responsibility and for you to continue to use it.
You need to evict your friend and her friend and formally ask ask them to leave. Your solicitor can draft the documentation.
Failing them leaving then you can go to the high court and get bailiffs to do this for you. The specialist bailiffs for horses are a company called Sherlocks and their contact details are at the bottom of this list.
I would suggest that you use solicitors that specialise in equine matters and please find a list below.
Deborah Hargreaves
Edmondson Hall Solicitors and Sports Lawyers
25 Exeter Road
Newmarket
Suffolk
CB8 8AR
Tel: 01638 560556
Tel: 01638 564483
E: solicitors@edmondsonhall.com
E: ah@edmondsonhall.com
www.edmondsonhall.com/page/1r6ef/Home/partner.html
Wroyte an article on The Legal pitfalls of Buying and Selling Horses

Actons
Tel: 0115 91002200 Caroline Bowler

Mark Carter
White Bowker Solicitors
Tel: 01962 844440
www.wandb.co.uk
mark.carter@wandb.co.uk

Helen Niebuhr
Darbys Solicitors
52 New Inn Hall Street
Oxford
OX1 2QD
Tel: 01865 811 7000
01865 811712
Fax: 01865 811 777
www.equine-law.net
E: equine@darbys.co.uk

Jaqcui Fulton Equine Law
Tel: 0121 308 5915
jf@equinelawuk.co.uk
www.equinelawuk.co.uk

Hannah Campbell (Specialise in compensation cases)
Tel: 01446 794196 (Specialises in traffic accidents involving horses)
www.horsesolicitor.co.uk
info@horse solicitor


Hanna Campbell
Horse Solicitors
(Took on case in 2013 on behalf of Claire Berry-Jones) involving making a claim Motor Insurers Bureau (MIB)

Elizabeth Simpson Senior Solicitor at law firm Andrew M Jackson
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk
enquiries@andrewjackson.co.uk

David Forbes or Belinda Walkinshaw
Pickworths Solicitors
6 Victoria Street
St Albans
Hertfordshire
AL1 3JB
01727 844511

Mark de-villamar Roberts
Langleys Solicitors Equine Law Group
Tel: 01904 683051
E: mark.Roberts@langleys.com
www.equinelawyers.co.uk

Elizabeth Simpson
Senior Solicitor
Andrew Jackson
Yorkshire
Tel: 01482 325242
www.andrewjackson.co.uk

Richmond Solicitors
13-15 High Street
Keynsham
Bristol
BS31 1DP
Tel: 0117 986 9555
Fax: 0117 986 8680
enquiries@richmonssolicitorsco.uk

Jacqui Fulton
Giselle Robinson Solicitors

Inderjit Gill
Jacksons Specialist Equine Solicitor
Represented Gaynor Goodall in an accident on a bridleway on Tameside County Court 01 February 2010

Knights Solicitors
Tunbridge Wells
Tel: 01892 537311
www.knights-solicitors.co.uk
Work with GRC Commercial Bailiffs
Senior partner very good on equine matters

Horse Solicitor
Tel: 01446 794 196
info@horsesolicitor.co.uk
www.horsesolicitor.com

www.laytons.com

Mary Ann Reay Charles or Chris Shaw
Shaw and Co Solicitors
Equine Law Specialists
Tel: 0800 019 1248
info@shawandco.com
www.shawandco.com

Arnold Thomson
205 Watling Street West
Towcester
Northants
NN12 6BX
Tel: 01327 350266
Fax: 01327 353567
www.arnoldthomson.com
enquiries@arnoldthomson.com

Tozers www.tozers.co.uk

Eleanor Temple Barrister from Kings Chambers in Leeds
Tel: 0113 242 1123
www.kingschambers.com

Tracy Wright
Shergroup Security
Equine Enforcement
Tel: 0845 890 9200
 
I agree completely with the above, the contract is with you, and it for any reason you or the person have let use the field that breached the contract you would be liable. I used to sublet a field through a friend, when I think about it twice, different people, I paid the full rent and was well aware I had no rights, I was very grateful for the use, and moved off as soon as they wanted to use it. I would have dreamt of changing the locks.
I would put up a fly grazing notice, and tell them to move, they are grazing the land without your permission,and they haven't been very friendly. Then at least if they leave it a mess that the owners want you to clear up there is a paper trail and can try and get any money back through small claims.
 
A few things for consideration:
Can you afford the field maintenance and repairs without anyone sharing, your post implied you might look to move another friend in.
If you can and you want to keep the land then I would suggest speaking to the land agent to see if you can extend the lease, as with only one year left any additional investment might not be worthwhile.
If you are still wanting to keep the land then give written notice to the “friend” who is subletting, informing them that you are not renewing their grazing, and that you have arranged for works to be done to the field therefore they should ensure they have removed their horses before that date. This date should not be before the year she has paid for. Inform her that you will be charging £30 per horse per week or part thereof after the due date of departure, due in advance. The reason for this is that you need to make it 100% clear that she is subletting and not on a share of the lease arrangements you have. The cost needs to be sufficient to encourage her to go but low enough that it is enforceable. This would cover contribution to field maintenance that appears not to be happening.
If you get to the departure date and she hasn’t left, issue her with a bill for all the horses on there (you have no agreement with the other person).
At this point you would need to consult a solicitor as if she is not prepared to move then you would need assistance.
 
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Some superb advice from PeterNatt and Fred66.

I’m not sure a fly grazing notice is applicable when they have paid for the year’s rent and originally came onto the land with the tenant’s agreement.

Probably cheaper to rent grazing?

Just saw an advert on the local horsey page for a superb grazing only for £70 a month! Blimey, this is in a very nice area, houses are minimum £1 million. Crazy cheap, looking at my livery bill!
 
I just wrote a long reply and it's gone so here goes.
Contract is in my name, yes I sold my horse last year and unfortunately it happened just as the next year's rent was due and I also have to give notice to quit a year in advance.. Which I hadn't done as didn't know at the time. My friend was obviously wanting the field and to keep her horse there so she said they would pay the rent for the upcoming year.. This is now almost up and I've paid for the forth coming year myself.
The field was a bare field when I got it, full of ragwort and weeds, no gate, no water. I worked for 4 years solid on the weeds, fixed and installed fencing, installed water access down the whole field and bought gates and locks. Also put down hardstanding in the gateway and rubber mats.
Non of which my friend helped with, physically or financially, she barely even saw her horse week to week so that was on me too. I charged her token rent and used that money to put back into the field. I had it harrowed and rolled every year. All the money I spent I've documented to prove I never used the field to make money.
I also made clear to the estate agent that I was intending on sharing the field as it was too big and too much work for one horse one person and he emailed back to say that was acceptable - I just wasn't allowed to run a livery.
So Yes now a year on of my 'friends' ignoring me and thinking they have rights to all my belongings to do as they please with I've decided I want to have it back.
I never said they could have the field as its not my place to say that.
I intend getting another horse and want to get back to what I miss... Taking care of the land.
So they have no right to be there.
As for people saying I should leave them too it and go elsewhere... Why would I want to pay 5times more to keep a horse in a different town when I have a field I've spent 4 years putting my heart and soul into at the end of my road?
I made a mistake selling my horse and now I'd like to have another one. One person in the field is there without my permission, the other originally was there as my guest, my sharer. But now they have changed the locks when they know full well the year they paid for is almost over and I want it back
 
Some superb advice from PeterNatt and Fred66.

I’m not sure a fly grazing notice is applicable when they have paid for the year’s rent and originally came onto the land with the tenant’s agreement.



Just saw an advert on the local horsey page for a superb grazing only for £70 a month! Blimey, this is in a very nice area, houses are minimum £1 million. Crazy cheap, looking at my livery bill!

Grazing for me would be £20 a month with one other in there paying the same as a companion.. Whereas livery yard is £25 per week plus hay and straw as don't offer grass livery
 
I just wrote a long reply and it's gone so here goes.
Contract is in my name, yes I sold my horse last year and unfortunately it happened just as the next year's rent was due and I also have to give notice to quit a year in advance.. Which I hadn't done as didn't know at the time. My friend was obviously wanting the field and to keep her horse there so she said they would pay the rent for the upcoming year.. This is now almost up and I've paid for the forth coming year myself.
The field was a bare field when I got it, full of ragwort and weeds, no gate, no water. I worked for 4 years solid on the weeds, fixed and installed fencing, installed water access down the whole field and bought gates and locks. Also put down hardstanding in the gateway and rubber mats.
Non of which my friend helped with, physically or financially, she barely even saw her horse week to week so that was on me too. I charged her token rent and used that money to put back into the field. I had it harrowed and rolled every year. All the money I spent I've documented to prove I never used the field to make money.
I also made clear to the estate agent that I was intending on sharing the field as it was too big and too much work for one horse one person and he emailed back to say that was acceptable - I just wasn't allowed to run a livery.
So Yes now a year on of my 'friends' ignoring me and thinking they have rights to all my belongings to do as they please with I've decided I want to have it back.
I never said they could have the field as its not my place to say that.
I intend getting another horse and want to get back to what I miss... Taking care of the land.
So they have no right to be there.
As for people saying I should leave them too it and go elsewhere... Why would I want to pay 5times more to keep a horse in a different town when I have a field I've spent 4 years putting my heart and soul into at the end of my road?
I made a mistake selling my horse and now I'd like to have another one. One person in the field is there without my permission, the other originally was there as my guest, my sharer. But now they have changed the locks when they know full well the year they paid for is almost over and I want it back
'Almost over' so they are still paying and it's still theirs
 
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Yes 7 days left but obviously I'll have to give them fair notice and if I deducted the 6 months she never paid me before that
 
'Almost over' so they are still paying and it's still theres.
It’s not there’s though, the tenancy is in the name of OP.
It’s good that you have an email giving you permission to share the field. The money that she’s paid is just sharing, not renting or subletting.
Personally I’d send a recorded delivery letter giving her a months notice, after which time she has no right to be on the land and see where that gets you. It may well be enough that you’ve put it in writing.
 
It’s not there’s though, the tenancy is in the name of OP.
It’s good that you have an email giving you permission to share the field. The money that she’s paid is just sharing, not renting or subletting.
Personally I’d send a recorded delivery letter giving her a months notice, after which time she has no right to be on the land and see where that gets you. It may well be enough that you’ve put it in writing.
The people on the field have paid the letting agent directly. I'd be very surprised if OPs name is still on the tenancy agreement. She voided the contract when she didn't pay last year.
 
The people on the field have paid the letting agent directly. I'd be very surprised if OPs name is still on the tenancy agreement. She voided the contract when she didn't pay last year.

That’s what I was thinking too - hence my question about the agents. However they seem to have accepted money from the OP for this year ??‍♀️ I have to say it seems as if the agents haven’t been terribly helpful in all of this.
 
That’s what I was thinking too - hence my question about the agents. However they seem to have accepted money from the OP for this year ??‍♀️ I have to say it seems as if the agents haven’t been terribly helpful in all of this.

I suspect the agents get very little out of managing this field and they probably do not care very much who pays, so long as they can say it is paid up to date should the owner every bother to enquire.

Personally if it was my land and I was giving the agents a cut out of the rent I would not be very impressed with their handling of all this "who is on there and who isnt on there" carry on.

I wonder when OP originally asked could she let someone else come onto the land did they even check if the owner was ok with that?
 
Just another thought popped into my mind. I wonder is this yet another lovely little parcel of much sought after private grazing land that will pass forever out of the use of horse owners due to yet another farmer getting totally peed off with all the aggro from horse owners. No small wonder farmers are so reluctant to let horse owners on their land is it really? :oops:
 
'Almost over' so they are still paying and it's still theirs
But it’s not theirs. The “friend” has one week left on the grazing that OP allowed her. Said friend paid the grazing direct to the agent rather than OP but it was only ever a sublet not a relinquishing of the lease.
At the end of the year then the friend needs to either move off or request an extension.
OP therefore should make clear that the sublet is no longer convenient and ask her to leave.
 
But it’s not theirs. The “friend” has one week left on the grazing that OP allowed her. Said friend paid the grazing direct to the agent rather than OP but it was only ever a sublet not a relinquishing of the lease.
At the end of the year then the friend needs to either move off or request an extension.
OP therefore should make clear that the sublet is no longer convenient and ask her to leave.
If it was a sublet, the current tenants would have paid the OP, then the OP pay the letting agent. The OP has broken her contract by not paying last year. I *imagine* the OPs agreement has been ended.
 
Of the land is still in your name as I’m thinking considering you have paid for it for the coming year then it looks like you can Give the friend notice. Once notice is up then if they have not removed horses Then do so and replace locks.

Sounds like you have been taken for a ride though. I know what that feels like and why I will never livery with friends again.
 
She has not broken the agreement, the rent on the tenancy agreement was paid to the agent in accordance with the lease. She had agreed that she was able to sublet to her friend so the agent was aware. Who physically paid the money is irrelevant.

I doubt the agent is even aware whose name was on the chq/bank transfer paying the rent.

The tenancy is in her name and the field her responsibility. If the agent gave notice and required the tenancy to cease after 5 years and the field was in a poor state, then presuming there was a clause in the contract it had to be kept in good condition, she would be responsible for the cost of making it good. Presumably, in the contract, the field has to have some sort of insurance which would also fall to this poster.

It is obviously going to take effort and money to get these horses out and may not be worth it if the tenancy will not be renewed after the next year is up.
I would speak to the estate agent and find out if the tenancy is likely to be renewed and make sure they are aware that she wants it renewed in her name.

If it was to be renewed then I would have a solicitor's letter sent to them to formally give notice. I would arrange for a locksmith to remove the lock and replace it with my own and I would move onto the field, start the clean up, divide it with electric fencing if necessary and explain their horses had this area until they left within the notice period.
 
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