Help with weak hoofs

criso said:
You have to do it by weight not scoop to calculate but if we assume roughly equal amounts then about 18%

Copra is great but very high in calories and protein so I wouldn't necessarily add until until a horse is in proper work.

Unmolassed sugarbeet is a very good starting point if he is calm on it. I had one that wasn't but it was because the calcium in the local area was high and sugarbeet is also high in calcium. So I could feed it at one yard but not another. It fluffs up with water so you can feed small amounts just to carry supplements but can feed in larger amounts if you do need more weight.
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I only said scoop as I can't remember any weights of it.

I had copra on my old mare who struggled with weight in winter and worked a treat.

I found he's not to keen on sugar beet which his current feed he prefers it without. But he used to have it when he had different feeds but he didn't have much as he seemed to put in weight quick with it and I didnt want him going over weight.

I have some Allen and page fast fibre which I haven't tried yet I was given a couple of sample bags of it. And it was either on here or on another page someone recommended it. Would that be worth a try??
 
fast fibre definitely worth a try, fwiw neither that or speedibeet were my pony's favourite things when we started but when you have spent most of your life on molassed chaff and pony nuts I wasn't surprised. He did get over that though ;)
 
Faracat said:
No way!


SA95, there's a lot to like about your horse's hooves (lovely big frogs) and I certainly wouldn't be in a rush to shoe them. The sole shot shows that the hoof wall is too long, this is what people meant by 'tall' when looking at your earlier photo. It looks like he did have flair, which has been rasped down, improving his diet and stimulating the hooves (eg walking on tarmac) should encourage the new horn to grow down with a tighter white line. I really can't see why that horse couldn't work BF with the right care and hack, school and compete happily without shoes. I would find either a pro BF farrier or a qualified trimmer (whichever is the best in your area) and grow out the crack.

If however you want to shoe (eg you need to use studs or whatever) that's your prerogative as his owner.

PS, the hard ground doesn't mean that you have to shoe.
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I was considering shoeing him soon anyway as he gets into more work ect.
I was only thinking this as past horses I've had (TB and TBxtrotter) both were wimps without shoes it didn't suit them and the got to worn down to quick with all the riding (mostly on roads)
 
It is fine to shoe him too :), everything suggested re feed etc is just as good for shod horses as barefoot ones, you just notice the differences a bit more when they are barefoot.
 
ester said:
fast fibre definitely worth a try, fwiw neither that or speedibeet were my pony's favourite things when we started but when you have spent most of your life on molassed chaff and pony nuts I wasn't surprised. He did get over that though ;)
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He had his new feed and seemed to like it (I only gave him without sugerbeet as forgot to make it up) and the next day with sugar beet he turned his nose up at it even tho the previous times of having sugar beet he didn't seem to mind it... I'm going to see if he likes that fast fibre feed in his dinner tonight I have a couple small bags and can pick some more up on Wednesday if he likes it. In thinking of getting a supplement of either biotic or the pro plus ones but I don't know yet as I've had some people saying biotic on it's own does nothing but others saying it's great.
 
ester said:
It is fine to shoe him too :), everything suggested re feed etc is just as good for shod horses as barefoot ones, you just notice the differences a bit more when they are barefoot.
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I think I'm going to get just a front pair on like my farrier recommends and see how he goes with that. He's normally complimenting my horse on his feet just seems lately they have gone all dry and cracked.
 
I was told that my mare wouldn't cope without shoes (she's half TB) and after some terrible farrier problems, her shoes were taken off by the new farrier and she's never needed them back on. I've hacked her for miles over tricky terrain (we have serious hills in this part of Wales) and as long as I built up her work slowly she coped brilliantly. I've never managed to do enough road work (and I find schooling dull, so mainly hack) to get her to self trim, so she needs trimming regularly.

People don't realise that riding on tarmac is good for unshod hooves. Again as long as you build up slowly - which you should do anyway with a good old fashioned fitness plan to build up the horse's fitness.
 
OP, I would say it's absolutely clear how much you love and care for your horse.

I personally have been in a similar situation and in fact one of mine also has a crack appearing at the moment that always comes this time of year. Very similar to your boys.
I shod at one point and it was the biggest mistake I made but that may have been just mine.
Personally I would see if you can ask the farrier to round off any excess wall so no chance of it getting more stretched than it should be.
If he looks well in himself, the cracks have only been in the last couple of weeks and he's due to get more exercise through turnout I'd say try and hold things from getting worse at the moment (without shoeing) and then wait and see, I wouldn't change things drastically yet until he's moved onto summer grazing.
Getting the right saddle may really help (it did mine) and maybe get someone good in to check over his back and make sure he can mover freely through every part of his body (again made a difference with mine).
The biggest difference with mine was getting their gut settled. My two was by protexin acid ease/ gut balancer for a little while but not continuous. I cut out all supplements for a bit (just hifi lite and haylage), then introduced forage plus balancer (not the best for my two as it turns out) but certainly helped their hooves (not so good on other things). Now they're on GWF equilibra 500 and it's brilliant (with hifi lite and one of them has tiger oats for condition and energy). Their hooves aren't suffering and their gut is pretty good. Okay this might not work for everyone but certainly getting the tack right and getting their tummy settled has gone a long way to improving their hooves and their general condition.
Hope this helps, if you'd like me to send you photos of my two just pm me and I'll give it a shot. C
 
Sallyanne95 said:
I understand what I'm about to say you'll all probably want to hang me but this is the content I got forced into feeding my horse and you may think forced what does she mean but I'm not lying I had a woman at my yard who constantly had ago at me for feeding my horse the good stuff and made me go with her to the shop and made me by the following

High fibre cubes - 16.5%
Conditioning cubes - 26%
Alalfa - 12%
Molassed chaff - 20.5%

So I grand total of 75%

I new this feed was bad and I got away from those people and put him on the one he is on now which is down to 11.2 / 12.2% which I personally don't think is too bad considering.
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If you knew it was bad why did you let someone 'make' you buy it? I'm a little confused!
 
Sallyanne95 said:
I asked the farrier why it happened and why he wants to put shoes on and he said 'Because the ground has gone really hard really quickly and he toes in slightly. And so I can stabilise it stop it moving and take the weight off it to stop it cracking more' also for anyone who asked I have some more photos of his hoof.

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How will shoeing take the weight off it? The weight will be on a shoe which will be on the ground. That's a rhetorical question really Sallyanne95.

It looks like there is excess wall flaring away at the crack area in the sole shot.
 
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Deinitely looks like a metabolic issue going on...I would sort out his diet either way as you seem to doing and get a roll put on that wall which should help take the pressure off that crack in a similar way that if you were walking on your finger tips and you had long nails with a split up one of them, it would be make the split worse
 
Sallyanne95 said:
I have had my own horses 4 years but been around them longer and I have actually worked at yards. I got advised a certain feed but that was stuff that added together was terrible so I swapped it for what I'm on now which seems to really suit my horse. I am unsure with this hoof problem and I have never had to deal with my horse having hoofs like this mine have always been in a good condition. I understand your saying about the sugar and starch but is that for all horses? What I feed isn't much over 10% combined and I was by others told it needs to be under 20% combined. Because if for all horses it has to be under 10% why are most feeds over 10% and horses I have come across are on a lot more feed starch and sugar then my horse and seem fine
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I understand your confusion, I listened to and researched the advice given by the foot experts on here (thanks for the advice) everything pointed to too much sugar being bad, think hyper child on sweets, replace spots and high energy with bad feet in horses and you get the picture, you are being given good advice by those that know what they are talking about, so I will tell you a little story, years ago I had my 3 horses on a livery yard, a family arrived with a 9 month old cob colt in tow, never having owned a horse, the idea being that pony and kids would grow up together and live happily ever after, when it became obvious that they couldn't even lead the younster out, without him tanking off, I gave them some advice, which was pick a livery to listen to and stick with it, as each livery knew what they were doing, just had different methods of doing it, they chose a whip on and kick on livery to follow and totally ruined the schoolmaster pony they bought to replace the baby, choose your advisor carefully, posters on here care deeply about horses and are a mine of information.
 
Sallyanne95 said:
I had to change his feed as it was giving him to much energy.
He gets a jug of mollichaff calmer, a handful of applechaff, some garlic, mint and seaweed plus some carrots. He also gets about one maybe two haynets after he's brought in and throughout the night.
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Mollichaff = covered in molasses, molasses = sugar
Garlic - ok for short term use but daily use has been known to cause Heinz anaemia
Seaweed = packed full of iron! too much iron is bad for horses, they get all they need from their environment.
Carrots = sugar

I personally would go for fast fibre and a hoof supplement.

Topical treatments (creams and oils) are a waste of money.

What the horse needs is a feed overhaul, a good trim, then regular work to stimulate growth and strengthen hooves.

If this doesn't suit what you want to do, then there is naff all we can say to help. There are some incredibly knowledgable and experienced people (with regards to hoof care) on this forum giving you advice (I'm not counting myself there) and it is all good and sound advice. The one thing I would say is shoe or don't shoe... Totally your decision, but whatever you do to get the best hooves for your horses you should absolutely start by changing that diet.
 
Some things I've found good to use:

Hay in preference over haylage (far less sugar)

Fast fibre
Speedie beet
Ultra grass (slightly higher in sugar but my horse only gets a mouthful mixed in to give his feed a bit of "bite)
Fibre pencils (good for condition)
Linseed meal (good for condition)
Probiotic = protexin (certainly the best I've used)
If he is fussy with feed, I always reccomend some dried mint over apples and carrots and as another poster said celery.
 
Hi
I've had problems with my horses feet on and off for a few years.
I listened to vet and farrier advice and kept shoeing.
I've just gone barefoot and it's just great.
I feed a low sugar high fibre diet. I feed Hi Fi lite, Top Spec Anti Lam feed balancer, high fibre nuts and Rosehips.
My horse is doing great on this diet.
The Top Spec nutrition team are really helpful when you call them, I'd give them a buzz.
Looking at the horses crack-surely when the farrier nails a shoe on, the nail will be going thru the crack.....
A nail is detrimental to the hoof..... So add a nail to a crack, surely it will split?
Good luck :-)
 
He was started on biotic today plus fast fibre. And his seaweed intake has been halved (kept him on a bit of it as it has really helped his coat)
For the current moment while I'm brining him back into work he's staying in the mollichaff calmer as it's the only feed so far that he's not gone nutty on and his in a great place ATM to start all this work.
I'm going to try the farriers way and if it does make it work I will defiantly find a new farrier but I currently don't want to get a farrier I don't know bad trust at this point in time with how his hooves are.
 
If you want to feed a calming agent, and a probiotic (not biotic x) plus want to feed something to give him a good condition and shine. Plus ensure he gets his reccomended vits and minerals I would reccommend the following.

Fast fibre as a base
Magic 5 star calmer from naff (a magnesium based calmer supplement -NO STARCH OR SUGAR)
1/2 cup of linseed meal a day for condition and shine
Protexin as a probiotic
For a vitamin and mineral supplement I use equimins tip top (it's got a really good balance of minerals and vitamins)

If your horse prefers some 'bite' to his feed (as fast fibre is a soaked feed) get some hifi unmolassed, or even some ultra grass (coated in soya oil not molasses) and just add a small handful to the mix.



If he needs a bit of an appetiser, buy a bag of dried mint and just mix in a tiny bit a day.

All of the above feedstuffs will last for ages, and by feeding that way you will het as close as you can to eliminating starch and sugar, plus cover all the things you want to, condition, calmer, probiotic etc.
 
Can I recommend you read Feet First by Nic Barker and Sarah Braithwait. It's an excellent book that's not just about barefoot but how to feed and manage horses for optimum hoof health. It's a real eye opener. I feed pro hoof as recommended by my trimmer - it has absolutely everything you need if you don't know what's in your grazing.
 
I have read most of the posts on this subject, now i am not a farrier or a vet or trained in any aspect, i do however have 2 beutifull horses, a TB mare and a gelded cob. the feet on the TB are spot on and always have been, unshod as she does very little road work at moment recovering from broken wither injury. however my cob has a large crack in his front hoof, and after discussing this with my farrier on numerous visits, we are slowly training the crack out, one of the biggest problems that my farrier has pointed out is the wet wet weather we have had this year, if a crack starts to appear, and the horse is turned out the wet a, softens the hoof and b the soft mud collects and starts to cause a crack, at first we may not notice a very small crack appearing, but with build of of soft mud and small stone and the wet hoof this soft mud gets forced up into the crack every time the horse steps on that hoof so the cracks can be come enlarged rather quickly, through cleaning does help to stop this progression, i know it did in my case, not the quick clean with a hoof pick any longer my horses now have a feet wash in a fashion every time i bring them off the field, diet i have also changed to a molo free diet and this is helping. one other thing my farrier did say to use to help harden the hoof back up is the yellow iodine spray, to help harden the hoof so the soft debris is harder to get into the cracks as they start to appear.
This is MHA and what i belive is the cause of my problem hope it helps someone out i know it has me.
 
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