Help with youngster hacking please

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NellRosk

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Hi, I'll keep it brief. 4 yo, broken in feb and been hacking out since then. Last few weeks I have been taking her in the lead to get her used to seeing things to prepare her for hacking alone. My dilemma is that she keeps stopping! She's not looking at anything, she's not scared she's just being stubborn. Few times she did it a whack sent her forward but now she is immune to leg/ whip and won't go. A hacking buddy suggested I wait it out but this did nothing and gave her chance to have a little nap I think which she enjoyed so felt I was rewarding her behaviour. Final straw was last night when I had to get off 3 times to make her go as the road was busy and cars were becoming impatient. Anyone have any ideas? Bearing in mind the mare is a big strong ID with stubborn tendancies. Thanks :)
 
No advice but in the same boat.

I have a 4yo who has just started napping badly out on hacks. Had me off twice on the road after he slipped when having a paddy. Scared me to death, luckily had my body protector on! I have taken him out once in convoy with a couple of big horses so that he literally couldn't nap but yet to try it again this week.

Yeah you're right, you want to keep her moving forwards. Can you ride next to someone in the front, then gradually get a little more forward than that horse? Is she only like this on the way out? I HATE this baby stage! :(
 
I would be schooling her while hacking, she should be moving forward as well as sideways( leg yielding) from your aids by this stage, not dead to the leg, otherwise you are heading towards problems at some point, do lots of transitions with her behind the other horse, moving up beside it then sometimes going on past, try not to set her up to fail at this stage just expect a few steps past then halt, on your terms, then walk on next to the other one.
I would do some work alone in a field before going onto the road if she is stubborn she needs to be encouraged to enjoy her work rather than having battles which will make her resent it, think of fun things she can do and always reward good behaviour rather than focusing on the bad or unwanted things she does, mares need to be on your side as the saying goes, tell a gelding, ask a mare, discuss it with a stallion, there is truth in this.
 
I have a 5yo that has just started hacking and if hes in company and asked to go in front he occasionally stops. A good kick and possibly a tap behind the leg is enough for him.

I would be worried thay the horse is dead to the leg/whip at such a young age, I would work on the schooling and getting het to move off the leg when asked.
 
muckypony said:
I have a 5yo that has just started hacking and if hes in company and asked to go in front he occasionally stops. A good kick and possibly a tap behind the leg is enough for him.

I would be worried thay the horse is dead to the leg/whip at such a young age, I would work on the schooling and getting het to move off the leg when asked.
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She is usually very responsive and in the field when I school her moves off my leg fine. It's just when she plants herself she is oblivious to anything I am doing!
 
be positive said:
I would be schooling her while hacking, she should be moving forward as well as sideways( leg yielding) from your aids by this stage, not dead to the leg, otherwise you are heading towards problems at some point, do lots of transitions with her behind the other horse, moving up beside it then sometimes going on past, try not to set her up to fail at this stage just expect a few steps past then halt, on your terms, then walk on next to the other one.
I would do some work alone in a field before going onto the road if she is stubborn she needs to be encouraged to enjoy her work rather than having battles which will make her resent it, think of fun things she can do and always reward good behaviour rather than focusing on the bad or unwanted things she does, mares need to be on your side as the saying goes, tell a gelding, ask a mare, discuss it with a stallion, there is truth in this.
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Thanks for that, very helpful. We do have little schooling sessions in the field and she is fine. Also when I take her behind another horse hacking she is very forward and actually wants to overtake them. But then when she gets in front plants herself and grows root. Very frustrating!
 
Gracie21 said:
No advice but in the same boat.

I have a 4yo who has just started napping badly out on hacks. Had me off twice on the road after he slipped when having a paddy. Scared me to death, luckily had my body protector on! I have taken him out once in convoy with a couple of big horses so that he literally couldn't nap but yet to try it again this week.

Yeah you're right, you want to keep her moving forwards. Can you ride next to someone in the front, then gradually get a little more forward than that horse? Is she only like this on the way out? I HATE this baby stage! :(
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Oh god that sounds terrible, glad you were both okay! It seems to be all the way round the hack, nothing triggers it. She's not spooky at all and very bold so I know she is not scared. Youngsters were definitely put here to test us!
 
I'd do two things:
1) Turn her away for a bit, let the brain switch off
or
2) Make her bloody move forward :D I'd go at a faster speed, i.e. trot more than walk so that she has less a chance to think about planting/going back.

My little filly was being stubborn like that and I sent her forward forward forward, no probs now :D
 
Have you tried a whip whop recommended by Richard Maxwell, so your not desensitising to the leg it's more an annoying tap from one shoulder to another (can use reins also)? Try opening up the rein to take a side ways step anything to avoid standing still. If horse wants to back up back up further than they would like. Obviously not recommended to try this on roads, get the training in first somewhere safe. If you can practise in fields first, maybe give long lining a go (may need a helper at the head to keep horse forward at first) just to really get her listening to you and then riding in a loop gradually increasing distance. Maybe someone to walk with you or cycle for confidence rather than a lead horse.

I have all this to come with my youngster, but just advising what I have researched and also have tried on older nappy horses with success.
 
Personally I would stick her back behind another horse for a few weeks so that it doesnt become a pattern of repeated behaviour and start just popping her in front for short spells when she feels really confident
 
ThoroughbredStar said:
I'd do two things:
1) Turn her away for a bit, let the brain switch off
or
2) Make her bloody move forward :D I'd go at a faster speed, i.e. trot more than walk so that she has less a chance to think about planting/going back.

My little filly was being stubborn like that and I sent her forward forward forward, no probs now :D
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If her brain switched off there would be nothing left apart from an empty space in her skull! I know she's just trying it on and 'taxing' me. I do send her forward! Trot her as much as I can then when we stop for a breather she just plants. Think I horrified the lady I hack with last night when I bloody whacked her one. She is into natural horsemanship and now I'm sure she thinks I'm some sort of cruel beast. :(
 
NellRosk said:
If her brain switched off there would be nothing left apart from an empty space in her skull! I know she's just trying it on and 'taxing' me. I do send her forward! Trot her as much as I can then when we stop for a breather she just plants. Think I horrified the lady I hack with last night when I bloody whacked her one. She is into natural horsemanship and now I'm sure she thinks I'm some sort of cruel beast. :(
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lol at the empty space :D

Ok, thinking natural horsemanship then.....what would another horse do to another horse if it didn't move out the way, move on with the herd etc etc.............wouldn't tickle it I don't think ;p
 
I would stick her behind or beside the other horse for a while and just do little bits with her in front.

I too have a similar youngster and it is oh so easy for others witheasier youngsters to say 'It's awful that he/she isn't more off your leg, blah blah blah' but I'd like to say 'you try it then. from the start. and you'll see, it's not so black and white'

With my boy, I have to give him a short sharp one every now and then to get him to wake up and listen to me. I also ride in spurs so that he respects my leg aids more when they are applied.

Also, try using different TYPES of schooling whips - they all make different sounds and feel different when used, sometimes just wooshing it through the air is enough...
 
CBFan said:
I would stick her behind or beside the other horse for a while and just do little bits with her in front.

I too have a similar youngster and it is oh so easy for others witheasier youngsters to say 'It's awful that he/she isn't more off your leg, blah blah blah' but I'd like to say 'you try it then. from the start. and you'll see, it's not so black and white'

With my boy, I have to give him a short sharp one every now and then to get him to wake up and listen to me. I also ride in spurs so that he respects my leg aids more when they are applied.

Also, try using different TYPES of schooling whips - they all make different sounds and feel different when used, sometimes just wooshing it through the air is enough...
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Agreed :)
 
The first thing I would do is get off the busy roads, this is not an argument you can have in traffic. Then I'd take a few steps back and go behind another horse, then alongside then ask her to go in front when she is trying to, just for a few strides and then back to alongside and then behind. But I certainly wouldn't be asking other road users to navigate round these antics.
 
Second to the wip ***, I just use an old headcollar rope with a knot in it. You can do it in front and behind the saddle, twirls on their legs and everything!
 
Ok, well this is a bit at odds with other people's advice, but I would try just taking her out on her own. Youngsters are often better on their own from the start than they are if they are led out by another horse, settle into the ride just following on and are then asked to take the lead. Take someone out on foot with you to help out the first couple of times and just aim to go 1/2 mile up the road and back. To start with it will probably be a little stop-start, but just sit there and keep insisting with your leg - try not to resort to the whip at this stage. Good luck:)
 
DabDab said:
Ok, well this is a bit at odds with other people's advice, but I would try just taking her out on her own. Youngsters are often better on their own from the start than they are if they are led out by another horse, settle into the ride just following on and are then asked to take the lead. Take someone out on foot with you to help out the first couple of times and just aim to go 1/2 mile up the road and back. To start with it will probably be a little stop-start, but just sit there and keep insisting with your leg - try not to resort to the whip at this stage. Good luck:)
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I agree DabDab- I always start my youngsters off hacking alone, makes them a bit bolder and confident from the start.

Out of interest, do you hack with her field buddies or stable buddies (obviously horses on the yard) but any horses she is particularly close to?
 
I agree, but what if you have no choice but to go on a busy road, would you lead out in hand first and go when it's quiet or go with a traffic confident horse who can go on the outside to shield from traffic until youngster gains confidence?
 
GeorgeyGal said:
I agree, but what if you have no choice but to go on a busy road, would you lead out in hand first and go when it's quiet or go with a traffic confident horse who can go on the outside to shield from traffic until youngster gains confidence?
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Well that's not an ideal situation for a youngster either way, even with an older horse a youngster will still react to the traffic if it's going to. I've never broken a youngster to hacking when the only option has been a busy road, so I really don't know. I suppose you have to deal with one issue at a time - so either traffic proof them with an older horse first or get them going on their own first at a quiet time of day, which you do first depends on which is more important in the individual circumstances.
 
ThoroughbredStar said:
lol at the empty space :D

Ok, thinking natural horsemanship then.....what would another horse do to another horse if it didn't move out the way, move on with the herd etc etc.............wouldn't tickle it I don't think ;p
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She is very lovely but not the most intelligent shall we say ;)

Exactly! Her horse walks all over her as well, eats when it pleases on a hack and is forever dragging her to food! Will stick to my methods thanks :D
 
CBFan said:
I would stick her behind or beside the other horse for a while and just do little bits with her in front.

I too have a similar youngster and it is oh so easy for others witheasier youngsters to say 'It's awful that he/she isn't more off your leg, blah blah blah' but I'd like to say 'you try it then. from the start. and you'll see, it's not so black and white'

With my boy, I have to give him a short sharp one every now and then to get him to wake up and listen to me. I also ride in spurs so that he respects my leg aids more when they are applied.

Also, try using different TYPES of schooling whips - they all make different sounds and feel different when used, sometimes just wooshing it through the air is enough...
Click to expand...

Yes exactly!! Even had my mum shouting at me whilst she sat on my 15 yo schoolmaster and I was like YOU get on her then, she soon retracted her words... I have some blunt spurs so could try them as well. Thanks for that, very helpful
 
DabDab said:
Ok, well this is a bit at odds with other people's advice, but I would try just taking her out on her own. Youngsters are often better on their own from the start than they are if they are led out by another horse, settle into the ride just following on and are then asked to take the lead. Take someone out on foot with you to help out the first couple of times and just aim to go 1/2 mile up the road and back. To start with it will probably be a little stop-start, but just sit there and keep insisting with your leg - try not to resort to the whip at this stage. Good luck:)
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I was actually thinking this you know!! May try this tonight, will let everyone know it goes. Thanks :)
 
AdorableAlice, yes she long lines but the yard I'm at now is directly on to a busy road so don't especially want to take her out long reining, it's not safe at all
 
NellRosk said:
She is very lovely but not the most intelligent shall we say ;)

Exactly! Her horse walks all over her as well, eats when it pleases on a hack and is forever dragging her to food! Will stick to my methods thanks :D
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I love a mardy mare :)

I don't think she is a genuine "natural horsemanship" person then. Done the right way, i.e. Monty Roberts you don't get rude misbehaving horses. I think she could be more of the "flower" type :) Nothing wrong with that its just not natural horsemanship :D Monty Roberts isn't soft of them by any means, he is the boss!
 
ThoroughbredStar - she's hacked with a horse she doesn't share a field with and then separately with her husband and was the same each time so don't think it's down to who she's with :(
 
ThoroughbredStar said:
I love a mardy mare :)

I don't think she is a genuine "natural horsemanship" person then. Done the right way, i.e. Monty Roberts you don't get rude misbehaving horses. I think she could be more of the "flower" type :) Nothing wrong with that its just not natural horsemanship :D Monty Roberts isn't soft of them by any means, he is the boss!
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You are very welcome to Nelly then ;)

Yes that perfectly describes her!!! She is a very lovely lady, her horse just gets away with absolute murder though. To the point she can't pick its feet out because she thinks she will get kicked to the ground when all it's doing is scowling a bit!
 
The other thing you can do is go out with anther horse and then turn back to go home while the other horse continues on. They will usually still put up some resistance, but being pointed in the direction of home usually helps with the forward motion. Just make sure the person on the other horse keeps walking away.
 
How about trying the method you use to get a horse that plants into a trailer? Use a schooling whip and just tap tap tap whenever she stops/plants and INSTANTLY stop and reward with your voice and a scratch of the wither for any forward inclination or movement? Return to the tap tap tapping if she stops,/thinks backwards again. For loading, you tap tap tap on the croup - it isn't meant to sting or anything, it's just an annoyance to them, so don't know whether it would work, but might be worth a try
 
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