Help wiv these questions please.

[Stu1]

Hi all.
I run a fencing & Lanscaping business mainly dealing with domestic fencing etc. although I do commercial & agricultural work too. My questions are. I'm thinking of offering a ground care service for poeple who own horse paddocks & fields etc but have no machinery to maintain there paddocks etc.
I would like to hear people's views on my idea to to offer a service doing various maintenance tasks such as mowing/topping, harrowing, rolling, fertilising, mucking out & muck spreading etc for people who don't own the equipment to do it themselves. Do you as horse owners & land owners think there's a market for the services I wish to offer ?
Obviously cost would be a major consideration as would the quality of work etc. I have been looking into costings etc & my thoughts are charging around £25/£30 a hour. This would include machinery, fuel & labour etc. do you think this is reasonable? I have been told I should charge more but to be honest I can't justify charging silly money like some people do.
Any work I do I always do to the best of my ability.
I've only been trading on my own for a couple years but so far I'm yet to have any complaints about my work or the price I charge which shows me I'm on the right path,would you agree?
Any help / pointers would be greatly appreciated. I look forward to your replies.
Thanks Stu

 

[9tails]

You say you have no machinery to maintain the paddocks. Tractor, harrow, muck spreader etc are going to be an expensive outlay.

Regarding charging, I'd rather know the cost per acre rather than per hour.

 

[madlady]

Hi Stu,

I think that is a brilliant idea - especially for chain harrowing and topping. I'm sure lots of people would rather pay you to chain harrow rather than poo pick Personally what I would be interested in (if I had the need) would be harrowing and topping. The chances are if someone with horses wants a field mowing they will want it baling as well and that is expensive.

We currently do our own harrowing and topping and the deal we have for our hay is that a contractor cuts and bales the full 30 acres - we then get half the bales and he sells the rest.

I'd say £25-£30 an hour is very reasonable.

Good luck

 

[Procrastination]

You say you have no machinery to maintain the paddocks. Tractor, harrow, muck spreader etc are going to be an expensive outlay.

Regarding charging, I'd rather know the cost per acre rather than per hour.

Think he is referring to the horse owners as the ones who do not have the machinery lol

 

[eggs]

I have got someone coming in soon to aerate, harrow and roll my fields as soon as the ground is dry enough. I've got about 12 / 13 acres and am being charged £490. Obviously he is supplying the equipment and is local to me so does not have much travel time. He has been doing paddock maintenance for many years and. Two years ago I was quoted £600 for rolling and harrowing but they had to travel further and a few years before that I was charged £50 per hour (which included travelling time although I wasn't told that at the time and rather ticked me off as they did two half days and charged me for four journeys when they could have done it all in the one day).

My local friendly farmer will do it for me for a bottle of whiskey but can very rarely come when it is best for me as he is busy doing his own fields.

I have a quad and topper and weed sprayer so I do that myself.

 

[jrp204]

Do you have all the kit? If you have to buy the machinery I would keep your money in the bank, if you have the machinery you are way too cheap, if you price your labour at say £12/15 per hour you have to run your machine, pay for fuel, depreciation and future replacement out of the left over money.
We were agricultural contractors for 25 years so sort of know the business. You also have to think that generally horsey people who may want your services will only have small amounts of land so you will have to factor in transport/travelling, it may also have to have a minimum charge otherwise it will never be worth your while.

 

[jrp204]

Two years ago I was quoted £600 for rolling and harrowing but they had to travel further and a few years before that I was charged £50 per hour (which included travelling time although I wasn't told that at the time and rather ticked me off as they did two half days and charged me for four journeys when they could have done it all in the one day).

:0

 

[aran]

I'm currently getting quotes from a few firms to sort out old pasture and fence. Topping, rolling, spraying and fertilising are all things I won't be able to do. Make sure you factor in travel time and cost. Take photos for your website and get some clients to do some online feedback for you. I found my lot from a mix of word of mouth and social media recommendations. They've all been really professional and responded promptly to emails and come to see the land prior to quotations.

 

[9tails]

Think he is referring to the horse owners as the ones who do not have the machinery lol

Oh in that case then yeah, it's a great idea.

 

[Mrs G]

I definitely think there is a market for this sort of service, I would take you up in a heartbeat at that price for mowing/topping, harrowing and rolling etc, as would many other horse owners I know; it is money well spent if it saves rutted, poached, bare paddocks! Once you got the word out initially (maybe advertise in tack shops/ at competition venues etc) and people have seen the quality of your work they will do the rest - you cant do better than advertise by recommendation. Good luck!

 

[WelshD]

The chap that gets most work around here from small set ups is the chap that does everything on a quad, he brings it and the attachments on a trailer.With the quad he can manoeuvre around electric fencing, through temporary gates etc

Its easier to find someone to come and do many acres with a tractor but trying to find someone to deal with just a couple of acres is really tricky and people are usually accepting that they need to pay proportionally more

So it is worth weighing up whether you could do several more lucrative jobs but with several lots of set up time and travel between jobs or do several acres which would take longer but less faffing about

You'd need to find out what services are in your area already and see where the hole in the market is OR give yourself a big selling point (punctuality would help...... and price is a big one)

 

[Stu1]

Thanks everyone for the replies. It seems I could be on a winner from the responses from people so far.
Yes I have some machinery but would be happy to invest in more providing it's getting used etc. I had thought of charging per acre as that way the customer knows the cost of the job so everyone is happy, in the same way all my fencing is charged per metre not hourly as everyone works at different speeds etc.
advertising through tack/feed shops is one of the ways I plan getting my name out there but as said word of mouth is by far the best advert in my eyes or from seeing my work first hand as you get to see the quality of work etc. I always take before & after photos of fencing/landscaping jobs I do & would do the same with this as a good portfolio is important.
Thanks everyone for your positive feed back it's great reading. Stu

 

[LittleGinger]

Think it's a great idea. Whereabouts are you?? I volunteer as first equestrian customer!

 

[OWLIE185]

I use the services of a contractor to maintain my 75 acres of grassland. He charges a different hourly rate for using different machines.

 

[Iwantakitten]

I think it's a great idea. Our yard owner harrows their own with a harrow pulled behind a pick up but hasn't got a roller and even with 16 acres it's difficult to get a local farmer to come and roll it for any price at the right time as they are all busy doing their own!

 

[Stu1]

Thanks for all the positive posts peeps. I'm based in Banbury (Oxfordshire) round here there's loads of horse paddocks where the owners don't have the kit to maintain the land. As said farm contractors are ussualy busy doing bigger jobs to worry about a little ponie paddock etched which is why I hope to fill the gap. I started to think about this while erecting some post & rail fencing for someone who owns the land but has no way of maintaining it. As I have the tractor (it's a compact tractor but on the large side of compacts ) which has enough power & weight to operate the implements but without too much damage or mess to the ground whereas a full size tractor would leave big ruts etc turning. I've thought of charging by the acre as it does seem a fair way as everyone knows where they stand & how much the bill will be. Obviously any work I take on will need to be within a reasonable distance from my yard to viable as I don't want to charge too much for my services but same time need to earn a wage & pay for breakages etc. providing it goes to plan I would happily invest in new machinery as long as it's going to be used & pay for itself over time. What would be acceptable hour rate to charge for transporting the kit to the job? Obviously I would pull the machinery on a trailer so would only be using fuel in the vehicle towing so should I be charging say £20/£25 a hour to cover my wage & fuel then charge by the acre for the actual work? I will be looking into how much demand there is, how much others charge & how, as well as charging more for jobs that will take longer due to being fidldy etc
My main goal is to offer a service people want at a reasonable price for a job done well. If I do that I see no reason why it won't work out well for me.
Does anyone live around Banbury ? If so how easy do you find it getting someone to do this kind of work? And how long would you expect to wait before they could do the work?
By the sound of it the main thing people want is harrowing & topping which is great for me.
As paying customers what services would like offered?
Thanks again for all the positive posts it's most incouraging Stu

 

[happyclappy]

Horse owners are always looking for these services, so it would probably be a good idea. I would want cost either per acre or per job.

 

[Crugeran Celt]

I am sure there would ge plenty of people wanting the service, I get a local farmer in to harrow and top my fields and he also does fencing so the only thing I would say is check in the area you are planning to work to ensure there is enough work for you and possibly farmers who could be offering the saje

 

[ycbm]

I'd bite your hand off for small fencing repairs, muck heap moving (in my own field, not removal) and 'stuff' that's just too small for farming contractors to be interested in.

 

[Stu1]

Looking into who else is offering a similar service is something I'll be doing as I don't want to try & establish myself if there's to much completion but I'm fairly sure there's not manny offering this type of work going on the condition of most of the paddocks I see.
Price per job or acre does sound a fair way to charge as everyone knows where they stand so no shocks when the bill is due.
Thanks again for everyone's positive posts I think you've helped make my mind up that this is a viable project that should work out very well for me.
Thanks Stu

 

[JLD]

I couldn't find anyone to do this stuff for me in Sussex - I only have 2 acres so if anything it needs even more care and I wanted someone with a quad or small compact tractor to come ad do exactly what you are suggesting. I would think it's a great idea although you may find everyone wants everything done at the same time so you might find big peaks and troughs in demand.

 

[Gift Horse]

I think there is definitely a market: contractors don't want the hassle of a few acres and often the machinery is too big for old places with tight stone gate holes etc.
Some of the hobby farmers and horse people I have spoken to want buttercups spraying, and small bale hay making,
(small bales being easier to handle and store than rounds for a lot of people) I'm sure there is also a market for liming & fertilising.
There is a chap round here who calls his business "weed & feed" he uses a quad he also does pest control (moles mainly). Best of Luck!

 

[Princess16]

I'd bite your hand off for small fencing repairs, muck heap moving (in my own field, not removal) and 'stuff' that's just too small for farming contractors to be interested in.

^^ me too ! A lot of people won't come out to smaller paddocks etc due to not being cost effective so you would be a God Send !

Good luck in your new venture

 

[JulesRules]

I would suggest including the travel costs in the acre costs up to say 10 miles radius, then anything over that just add a mileage charge.

As others have said, be prepared for peaks and troughs as many jobs are seasonal.

 

[jrp204]

If you say the average horse property is about 7 acres, and in a 10 mile radius there are 30 properties? 210 acres.
Rolling & harrowing @ £10-12/ac
Fert/harrowing - £10-12/ac - 1 x yr - 24/ac = £5040 (lab £1500)
Dung removal/loading - £40/hr - 1 x yr - £40 = £8400, (lab £2520)
Dung spreading - £40/hr - 1 x yr - £40 = 8400 (lab £2520)
Travelling - £2/mile
Total - £21840, assuming every acre is done once for fert, harrowing, dung loading and spreading.
Less - Labour @ £12/hr - £6300
Fuel - 2000l @ 45/l - £900
Machinery purchase; Tractor - £10000
Loader - £1500
Fert spinner - £500
Chain harrow - £200
Dung Spreader - £1000
Public liability - £500?
Depreciation ?
Breakdowns ?
Haven't included spraying as not everyone will have the PA1 & 2 required
Obviously this is a rough guide and not agricultural rates.
Contracting is a tough game and we got out of it because we couldn't charge enough to cover costs, we were never short of work and certainly were not the cheapest, OH's reputation got him the work not our prices. If you already have the kit and are basically earning your living say from a farm contracting can help pay for the machinery but to start from scratch and it have to pay for a living and to buy and run machinery I think it would be unrealistic.

 

[Stu1]

Thanks for the quick breakdown of the figures. I have some machinery but if the work is there I would happily invest in more. I don't expect to make a fortune doing this, it would be a extra income along side my ussual fencing & landscaping business. What part of the country are you based? & would you say the rough prices you put in your post are about right for the type of work ?
At the moment I'm still looking into things, although I know I need to get on with it before I miss out on it for this year as it's seasonal work. Spring & summer is my busiest work wise as you would expect but if there's a demand for the services I would offer I would be willing to work weekends etc so I can fit it in with the weather & conditions etc.
on a separate note does anyone know if there's any horse related forums around Oxfordshire where I could ask these questions as that's the area I'm based.
Does anyone know how I would go about advertising at horse events etc?
Not owning or riding a horse I've never attended these kind of events so don't really know anything about them.
Thanks again for everyone's posts. Stu

 

[jrp204]

This may be useful as a guide http://www.naac.co.uk/userfiles/files/NAAC Contracting Charges Guide 2015-16.pdf
We are in Cornwall. What you will find is everyone will want you at the same time, then it will rain so you won't be able to do anything then as soon as it dries up everyone will be shouting. Contracting...I don't miss it at all! OH would buy another Self propelled forager tomorrow, he loved it.