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angellauren

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I’m not a particularly regular poster on here and I’m also on another forum which I use quite often and despite feeling a little bit more incompetent each time I post on here, I’d like some more mature advice anyway so here goes… This will be long but I just want people to have a clear idea of everything but I’d really appreciate some advice, reassurance.. Whatever!

I’ve had youngsters since I was a teenager, my first pony was a 10 month old New Forest who came to me unhandled and I generally really enjoy having them from this point opposed to something more “ready made”.

I’m 21 now and at the beginning of the year after a lot of deliberation decided I wanted and needed something that I could take more seriously and that had some potential so I could get back in to competing properly as at 21, 5’6 and competing on ponies, I was a bit limited! So baby horse arrived at the end of Jan, off the side of a mountain, full of worms and looked a pretty sorry state. He’s got some great bloodlines and I was hoping that he might be a good dressage prospect for the future if not a show jumper. I paid a small fortune for him but thought it will be worth it when he comes good. I decided to get another youngster because right now I’m working full time, my partner and I have recently moved in to a new place and it is a building site, the whole place is being renovated and we’ve been sleeping on the floor and so on for 6 months, we currently have no kitchen! There’s just an awful lot going on and I couldn’t commit to riding something as regularly as it would need to be ridden right now so with some lessons and my little NF to keep me ticking over I thought it’d be the ideal situation. Newbie has just turned 1.

They’ve recently gone in to a new paddock (I keep them at home by the way – lucky lady) so he is looking a lot better and being a Welsh part bred and on Spring grass, he’s pretty much on the verge of a mental break down 90% of the time right now. Before they went in here I got him to a stage where he was fairly good to catch, a little reserved and nervy at times but nothing to worry about, just babyish. I didn’t need to keep his halter on whilst he was out, he was calm to lead, he was de-sensitizing well too and so on. He loved being in his stable, I couldn’t get him up some mornings! Now he’s on new grass, he is obviously a different animal – fine, I was expecting it. I left his headcollar on initially as though he might be awkward to catch again which.. he was! I was coping with this okay until he got his headcollar off in the field somehow and there’s not a chance he was having it back on, I thought that perhaps he’d caught it on the electric fencing and that’s why he seemed so nervous about me putting it on again or something. Their living out 24/7 now really so I’ve just left him alone, I can’t get close enough to him to bond with him, he’s not really interested in me unless he’s in so I just let him be, there’s no rush. They had to come in last night as a friend was moving her horse to mine so he’ll have some younger company. Her homebred is 2. My boyfriend and I ended up herding him in as I didn’t have time to try to catch him, it was belting it down with rain and he followed NF in quite happily anyway, walked straight in to his stable – no problem and so I figured I can get a headcollar back on him again now. He just seemed petrified of it but once I got it back on him he was cool. I came on to the yard this morning and he’s got in off again. It’s not been rubbing him anywhere of anything and I’d like some advice on a different type of headcollar perhaps, something light and not jingly to see if that makes a difference. It’s not ideal leaving it on but I haven’t got an hour in the morning before work to persuade him to let me put it on, I can stroke his face all over etc fine, he’s not headshy, he adores having his ears and face scratched. He was herded back out to the field this morning instead. I just feel like everything I’ve done has just been undone but I don’t know what’s caused it. I’ve been struggling to bond with him and I’ll admit I haven’t got as much time as I’d like to spend time sitting in his stable and so on. I know it’s a case of 1 step forward, 2 steps back and he’s a total different kettle of fish to what I’ve dealt with before temp wise. Any tips for bonding? I need to get my NF out of the picture because he’s not helping matters, their all over each other all the time or if I’m try to spend time with him the NF is in my face fishing for attention as he’s the total opposite and wants interaction all the time! I know he’s just a horse but it’s quite important to me that we trust each other and he’s happy to let me handle him, but he’s giving me the cold shoulder all the time, he doesn’t want to know. I guess all the babies I’ve had are so curious they come around but he’s just.. not, at all. I’m so different now and struggling with the patience, part of me just feels like finding him a good home where they can work wonders with him. He’s going to be special, he moves like a dream and looks like my own black beauty but we just don’t connect. His parents were super laid back and I naively thought he’d sort of follow suit, I realise they are constantly changing at this age and it’s impossible to determine how they’ll be, I’m just feeling a bit “meh” about him right now. We’ve decided to take NF out and put him by himself for a while because upon introducing my friends yearling to the 2 today, he tried to kill him, it was horrendous. My baby just wanted to say Hello but my NF wouldn’t let them near each other and just was pure vicious towards him so we’re thinking about NF being by himself which he is fine (if not better) with and I can bring him back in to work then and let the babies be together who should get on and give me a chance to bond with my little (big) one a bit better. I don’t want to give up on him and I doubt I’d get back what I paid for him but any experiences or tips I would find useful, finding it hard to be positive about the future you know, if anyone would do anything different then also pipe up. I’m not narrow minded or super opinionated about one thing or another and will take all advice on board.

Baby also has a small hard lump on his cannon bone from where I suspect he’s knocked it. It’s not hot or anything but would you get the vet out? Not sure what it could be?

Sorry this is so long…

Lauren x
 
I don’t want to give up on him
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I hope you don't. I'm assuming you've had hims since January - so 5 months and not much progress.

I'd be continuing to bring him in every night - and doing handling work with him ever day before turnout.

Put a correctly fitting headcoller on that won't come off - and don't leave one on in the stable.

As for your TO options - yes, youngsters together NF next to them well separated until he's used to his new companion.

Lump on the cannon bone may well be a splint.
 
agree with AM he needs handling everyday twice a day if possible and that does mean bringing him in. Welshies are 'different' in lots of ways and left to their own devices soon become feral. That is what you have at the moment, an almost feral pony.
A lot of young horses not just welshies get this way when they are turned out 24/7
Its good he has some company otherwise he would start using you to test his herd leadership instinct too

The head collar issue is probably nothing to worry about, it could be he caught it, in which case you need to be firm but fair to reassure him, it could just as easy be him being a bit 'feral' too. Lots of ponies, again especially welshies react in a way that the owner presumes means they have been hurt, abused in the past when in fact it is just the way they are sometimes

Sorry for repeating this 'welshies are different' but I think you are finding that out anyway. They thrive on firm but fair handling and if you are too nice they wonder if you are capeable of being their leader and keeping them safe

so be firm fair and VERY VERY consistant!
Then you can enjoy him again
 
amymay said:
I hope you don't. I'm assuming you've had hims since January - so 5 months and not much progress.

I'd be continuing to bring him in every night - and doing handling work with him ever day before turnout.

Put a correctly fitting headcoller on that won't come off - and don't leave one on in the stable.

As for your TO options - yes, youngsters together NF next to them well separated until he's used to his new companion.

Lump on the cannon bone may well be a splint.
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I realise it's not a lot of progress, I didn't want to over do the handling at such a young age as for me personally, I'd rather let him be a horse as much as possible whilst he's young but just have the handling foundations in place but with his attitude and my lack of time, it's taken much longer. I don't want to give up on him because I feel incapable, but in hindsight with how busy my lifestyle is right now, it is incredibly difficult to put the time in to him and I feel that perhaps he'd be better with somebody who could give him that.

I can't catch him every night as such but I suppose he'd follow another in. It just seems a shame for them to be in each night at this time of year. It is a correctly fitting head collar and I left it on over night as I knew he'd be tricky to put it on in the morning and again, it's a time issue for me. I leave the house for work at 7am. Is there a certain style of head collar that's preferable perhaps?
 
angellauren said:
I can't catch him every night as such but I suppose he'd follow another in. It just seems a shame for them to be in each night at this time of year. It is a correctly fitting head collar and I left it on over night as I knew he'd be tricky to put it on in the morning and again, it's a time issue for me. I leave the house for work at 7am. Is there a certain style of head collar that's preferable perhaps?
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Sorry OP - but to be blunt it sounds as if you're making excuses for not doing what's needed to be done.

The horses are on your doorstep - how much easier does it need to be?

I'm sorry - not sure what else to say, other than if you put the work in you and your yearling will reap the rewards.
 
soulfull said:
agree with AM he needs handling everyday twice a day if possible and that does mean bringing him in. Welshies are 'different' in lots of ways and left to their own devices soon become feral. That is what you have at the moment, an almost feral pony.
A lot of young horses not just welshies get this way when they are turned out 24/7
Its good he has some company otherwise he would start using you to test his herd leadership instinct too

The head collar issue is probably nothing to worry about, it could be he caught it, in which case you need to be firm but fair to reassure him, it could just as easy be him being a bit 'feral' too. Lots of ponies, again especially welshies react in a way that the owner presumes means they have been hurt, abused in the past when in fact it is just the way they are sometimes

Sorry for repeating this 'welshies are different' but I think you are finding that out anyway. They thrive on firm but fair handling and if you are too nice they wonder if you are capeable of being their leader and keeping them safe

so be firm fair and VERY VERY consistant!
Then you can enjoy him again
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Thank you - your right.. he's certainly like nothing I've had before. I do find him difficult to read. I thought about join up to see if that would maybe just push in the right direction. It makes sense about me possibly being a bit too nice, I just don't want to scare him haha.

Thanks x
 
Agree with Amymay but having said that I made similar mistakes to you. I bought my Welshie last July as handle-able, turned him out and couldn't get near him again! Thinking he would 'come good' if I left him and stroked him while he was being fed I couldn't see that he was getting more feral.

Having the vet have to grapple him to sedate him when he was gelded was a big wake up call, having to sedate him again for the farrier and even greater wake up call. He is now in a heacollar 24/7 (one of the rings has been removed and replaced with a field safe breakaway ring) and it has a short grab rope on, he has been held and handled every day since and bought in to a stable regularly to be groomed.

Like you I genuinely thought I was doing the right thing

Chin up - things will improve quickly now you are going to get back on track, welshies are bright and he will learn quickly :)
 
I'd definitely persevere, I was feeling disheartened about my filly a year ago, now she's 2 we've got that bond and things have just clicked. It's taken a year of daily handling to get to this point though. Mines out 24/7 over summer but I still bring her onto the yard everyday for a scoop of balancer, quick brush, pick feet or practise picking up, check over and back out again. This is definitely not over handling and was essential to developing that trust and bond. It will take time and patience, give it a year and see how far you will have come, I bet he'll come good!
 
I wouldn't push to try and 'bond' with him as such. However, I would try be around him in the field daily - poo pick or something, fuss the NF and progressively work at getting closer to the youngster. Give him a good scratch/fuss if he comes to investigate but don't always try and catch him. What does he do when you go to put the headcollar on - does he just not let you near or does he fling his head away. When you go to put it on him? Being Welsh I would guess he's quite likely to be food driven so maybe have some food with you, work at stroking him with the headcollar, praise and treat. Put the nose bit on him, praise, treat, remove. I would do it in stages and yes it will take time and patience! Just take little steps. Once you get it on I would make a big fuss of him then take it off and walk away.


needs
 
.. My phone's a pain! He needs to associate you and the headcollar with positive things and maybe not always being brought in. Sometimes yes but not every time. You will get there. 5 mths is no time at all really.
 
angellauren said:
I'd rather let him be a horse as much as possible whilst he's young
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Unless you are planning on house training him and sitting him round the table at night with the family, he has the rest of his life 'to be a horse'

The difference between him blossoming into a friendly, well mannered, easy to do horse, and a feral, pain in the arse that you can't do anything with, will be decided NOW. The work needs to be done NOW.

My friend has a yearling and a 2 YO that live out permanatley to 'grow up' but both will lead out in a headcollar- 2yo will bridle for leading, be tied up to be groomed (although you don't need to tie them up they will come and stand) the 2 YO loads into a lorry and is impeccably behaved at shows. They have been worked with since the day they were born and they are now 2 lovely young horses who choose to be in your company the minute they see you (it can be annoying though!) The 2yo is cheeky, but takes a telling because he has manners. They are lovely characters.

They are now out 'being horses' and growing up- but we take them out for potters in hand to keep them interested and their education ongoing. The 2yo has been out showing as its obvious after that that he WANTS to work.

The foundations for the person that horse will become need to be laid as young as possible.
 
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I don't think you have anything to worry about.
You bought a youngster that had very little handling - he started to come round to it and then when you turned him out he has reverted to being wary.

I wouldn't worry about it at all. Just let him be. Go out to the field and check them both. If he comes to you basically ignore him and make a fuss of the other.
Some of his wariness could have come because the NF is alpha nd body language could have kept him away.

As for the halter, if he has a thick mane then it is easy for them to shake the halter off.

You can get him into the stable by following another - when he is in get a halter on him. A lot of youngsters do not like their nose whiskers touched so it might be something as simple as this. Put the halter on around his neck and then do up the noseband. Once caught, get a second halter and put that one and off over the top so he gets use to it and you have control.

You are bound to be both stressed and tired. This will make you short on patience so, as long as you know you are you can deal with it.

Let him be, as long as he is checked daily then don't worry about his behaviour. Get him in when you can and do the halter thing. Pick up his feet and call that it.

I would rather have a youngster that had little/no handling then one that had been badly handled. He will come round to it when you have more time.

I have a family line here that always go 'shy' as yearlings, they act as if they have never been caught and I generally ignore it. They come round after a while.

Keep plodding on and don't fret. He'll be fine.
 
Hi, I have not read all the other posts so forgive any obvious repetition, but I will briefly tell you my story with my Welsh D and see if there is anything you can pick from it to help you.
I bought my lad when he was 5 and he was already pretty set in his ways in terms of knowing what he could get away with and being a bit bolshy.
Putting that aside, he was great when I tried him and I was fully aware that he had been passed about a bit and from a troubled background. I was aware that he was a sensitive welshie that needed routine and introducing to things carefully.
Roll on to getting him home...he quite clearly could not cope with any change in his life or routine at all! He turned into something ferral that I had taken straight off the moors, absolutely petrified of everything and everyone. He was bolshy when like this and threw himself around, not really knowing what he was doing other than to be scared and loosing any sense of manners into the bargain.
No, he was not drugged when I went to see him, just scared and not coping with anything that had suddenly changed in his life.
Everything that he had previously experienced at his previous home and was happy with, was suddenly to be feared. Rugs, feed buckets, being brushed, lead ropes, long reining, anything at all out hacking, farrier, new people, tacking up....everything!
Basically I had to start again, apart from the riding, he was happy with being ridden.
I spent insane hours following him round the field as he grazed talking to him, an hour every night in his stable de-sensitizing him to everything - ropes, halters, rugs, bags, sacks, string, tinsel!, noises, putting things on his legs, back, head...anything to make him trust me and realise it was ok.
Once he was happy with all this I started lunging him and long reining and working on basic commands and manners.
This all took months and even though I was able to ride him during this time, it took many months for him to settle in his routine and be happy and relaxed with life in general...months.
He is now a very different horse and trusts me and looks to me when he is frightened. But he is still a quirky little boy and it does not take much for him to panic - at times like this I have learnt what works well with him to calm him again.
My only suggestion for you and your horse is time, effort and patience...they dont always come right of their own accord and some need more work and bonding than others.
 
Agree with AM.

My nearly yearling lives now in a field with others of varying age.

He still comes 'in' every day to be handled and led and tied up. He's good for the farrier and dentist (she only had a little looksee, no gag obviously). Every day he has a head rub, a full body stroke, and a feed. He thinks it's great and comes up when one of us appears in the field.

Your horses are at home and you don't have to leave the house 'till seven o'clock and you don't have time to spend fifteen minutes with him? Maybe you need to reconsider for now.

I'd never leave a headcollar on in a stable overnight. Why would one do that? It's so easy to get it caught on bucket/door/legs - horses are adept at getting themselves into trouble with absolutely nothing, and it's our job to reduce those odds.

Sorry if this comes across as blunt.
 
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