Helping child/pony with seat independent from reins/mouth

book_lover

book_lover

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Hi folks, again with another question (but you're all so helpful!)

We're looking into problems with our loan pony, bucking, napping and rein snatching. After saddle fitter visit yesterday it looks like the saddle he came with may have caused back pain which could explain the bucking. So - new saddle and back checked next. Also the fitter (who was amazing) watched him being ridden. He has a sensitive mouth - which may have caused him beginning to rein snatch. (also it may have been another way to evade faster gaits which cause more back pain - he only would rein snatch or buck in trot, and now he will only buck in canter). The fitter identified that he has a very soft sensitive mouth and needs soft hands from his rider. Sadly my daughter needs some work with this. She probably started off with him not being soft enough - coming from a mostly riding school pony background. But with the rein snatching I think she has tried to combat it by pulling back and hence a battle with his mouth - luckily we have caught this quickly. She had started to ride with very short reins in order to try and prevent the rein snatching.

So - she needs softer hands and an independent seat - the fitter thought she was using the reins for balance. I appreciate that the riding schools only teach so much and then you're learning on a different level with your own pony. Fitter suggested lungeing so she can learn to ride with no reins. Obviously she will need to steer of the lunge, but that can come later once they are working well together with looser reins. Obviously this goes alongside sorting out his back. But fitter suggested it's not critical and he needs to keep doing ridden work (the fact that he objects less now than when he arrived suggests that improved fitness may have helped).

Can you give me any further suggestions on developing an independent seat? As I am so concerned about this saddle, I wondered about bareback too? Is this a help or hinderance with developing independent seat? Perhaps a bareback pad would help? Fitter said we could continue with same saddle in the short term but with a very thick pad (which we have). But ultimately I'm concerned to, as it's putting pressure on his spine she thinks.

Also - will he get on better with a more gentle bit? He is currently in snaffle with french link.

many thanks in advance
 
great will do. I think I need to quickly get a better saddle (just don't want to spend hundreds and hundreds if having these other checks reveals that he would be better out of work and going home!)
 
Riding without stirrups, riding one handed will both help but the best really is riding without reins - knot the reins, lay on the neck and learn to control pace and direction with seat and knees.

Perhaps something as simple as a neck strap to use for balance rather than using the reins would help as well.
 
I would really be looking for some ongoing lessons for your daughter as developing good hands needs good instruction. If he needs soft hands, then he will teach her a lot. Give her a neck strap to hold for balance in the meantime - she can practice stopping and turning with this which will help her core strength.
 
hi all,

LRJ she is 9 (and chunkier 9 though, not a waif). Pony is 13.2hh and a tank! I will upload a photo if I can find one. He is def stronger than her so when battling, he usually wins!

Madlady excellent, thank you. We did attach a neck strap yesterday so we will try that today. On the lunge?

ozpoz thank you. We have an instructor coming out on April 5th, hopefully she will be good with this sort of thing. Meanwhile we need to get his back checked and make sure he IS fit to be ridden and I'm sorting that out as a priority.

Do you all think - bareback (given problems with current saddle) or with saddle and v thick pad?
 
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book_lover said:
hi all,

LRJ she is 9 (and chunkier 9 though, not a waif). Pony is 13.2hh and a tank! I will upload a photo if I can find one. He is def stronger than her so when battling, he usually wins!

Madlady excellent, thank you. We did attach a neck strap yesterday so we will try that today. On the lunge?

ozpoz thank you. We have an instructor coming out on April 5th, hopefully she will be good with this sort of thing. Meanwhile we need to get his back checked and make sure he IS fit to be ridden and I'm sorting that out as a priority.

Do you all think - bareback (given problems with current saddle) or with saddle and v thick pad?
Click to expand...

I'd put the neck strap on at all times for now, I would also encourage your daughter that, when pony starts to fight, to let go. Even an adult wouldn't win a battle of strength with a 13.2 :) Dropping contact and both of them taking a moment to relax and re-asses will do the world of good. When he's fighting he is trying to tell her something - could be that he is being held too tightly.

I would be wary of putting the current saddle on him if you know it isn't right - provided the pony's back isn't so sore as to cause pain from bareback then I'd be more tempted by bareback - it would massively help with your daughters balance as well.
 
If she is a confident rider then certainly do some riding with no stirrups. I always put a neck strap on when riding regardless, make sure it is roomy enough so that she doesn't need to reach forward for it, we teach ours to stop when we pull on the neckstrap. Bareback is a fun thing to do in an enclosed space if the pony is well behaved enough.

I am not discouraging the quest for soft hands but most ponies I have got on - in the quest for pony squishing! - because they are ridden by children they have pretty hard mouths. What you want is your daughter to think of having still hands but still having a contact with the mouth. I explain this to my children by getting them to be able to feel the tongue, if you have too much of a contact you won't be able to feel this. Also carrying a whip in their hands like they are carrying a tray is great for teaching still hands.
 
right ok, thanks ladies, we'll try a bit of bareback today. It's windy so we won't ride for long - he hates it! Madlady I'll keep the neckstrap in action, and loosen it LJR. LJR good point re contact - and good tricks to try. Actually can't wait to get started with them!

thanks LJR, don't make me blub!! the thought of this pony having to go back is unbearable for all of us. Hoping the back lady will say we can help him and he can be ridden!
 
What about some games? Things like carrying cups of water, dropping tennis balls into buckets, picking a riding stick out of a cone, weaving through cones and putting it back in the cone at the end? Pony club games are great for all ages, and you learn without even thinking about it because you are so busy concentrating on the task.

I do all sorts of stuff with my three year old and his shetland pony, and his balance and independent seat has come on leaps and bounds.

Does the pony lunge? You could lunge while she rides with no reins - sure fire way of getting a good seat :)
 
heebiejeebies, excellent ideas!! thanks! She will LOVE these. Will try over the weekend.

We will find out today whether he lunges. But we'll do so without side reins I think given we're aiming for no reins!
 
"Head shoulders knees and toes" in walk and then trot and over grids (yes really!!) is brilliant for developing a seat. so is taking away the reins (and saddle) and getting her to walk circles and 3 loop serpentines with her seat and legs. then progressing onto trot work. So long as she has a neck strap and a helmet, she'll be fine!
 
Lunge lessons without reins from a proper instuctor will help her develop this (on another pony if needs be). In the nicest way possible, it doesn't sound like you are experienced enough to teach her this- after all, you did not spot the problem in the first place. She should eventually be able to rise to the trot and jump on the lunge without holding on to anything.

It would also be a good idea to try to make sure she does not "fix" her hands against the pony, especially in walk.

I really think she would benefit from a qualified instructor though. Teaching people an independent seat and feel is not easy, even if you are a good rider, it is not always easy to comunicate what you want her to do. Also, as you have seen, having an outsider look at the problem can be really helpful.

If you are starting work bareback/with no stirrups, start off leading the pony and getting her to hold a neckstrap, otherwise she will just use his mouth to balance on even more.
 
When we needed to improve our 8 year olds' seat,we did cantering on the lunge with no stirrups and after 2 or 3 sessions,no stirrups or reins and it did the trick.She has a super hunting seat now and I can't remember the last time she came off.

Good luck and let us know how things go.
 
Forgot to say,definitely get a good instructor.Even if you know what you are doing,children will take more notice and try harder for someone other than a parent IME.
 
thanks Mirage, that's really encouraging :)

Penumbra, thanks - I probably am a better rider with more experience than I've communicated here. We did spot problems and have addressed them quickly. She has an instructor coming but not for three weeks, we'll certainly be doing work in the meantime! And no, she won't be allowed to hold his mouth from now on. I was aware there were problems with her hands and was working on this but also simultaneously trying to address multiple behavioural problems (napping, rein snatching and bucking). There are people that have been working with me that have decades under their belt who have advised similarly. We'll get there! Of course an instructor is important but it's not like we can afford to have her out every evening ;) the first time she can manage is 3 weeks from now (I've had that booked in a while too).
 
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Wee update, we had a lovely little lunge with him, he's SO good, and then Laura rode him briefly bareback in trot, no reins (with strap). They were great, got her to put arms out, do heads, shoulders knees and knees (not quite ready for toes!) etc. I think we do a LOT of work like this til it feels totally natural to her. And we will get a lot more instruction when the instructor comes.

Other great news is that his owner is buying him a new saddle! I have the physio coming to see him a week today. Fingers crossed, it's all looking up. thanks for all the support :)
 
Having taken my grandson on a hack, I realised he's heavy handed and hangs onto the reins, tomorrow, he's riding with no reins, just tent guy ropes attached to the bit, grandson doesn't know this yet, but he;s not spoiling a perfectly good pony's mouth, a 'nice' surprise for him
 
Great update! Keeping it fun is the main thing for kids to keep them interested!

Book an instructor as when you need one, these are really basic things you are teaching her and if you are an experienced rider yourself you will be more than capable of putting it across, you don't have to justify yourself to anyone on here.
When she does have a lesson from an instructor you can then incorporate what she learned in the lesson along with what you have already been doing, so make sure you sit in on the lesson and have a chat with the instructor afterwards about how you can help her and what 'homework' she has got until the next lesson!

Although I am an ex instructor and don't teach any more, I will be teaching my son until he is old enough to tell me to sod off and get himself a new instructor, because I'm certainly not paying money for someone to teach him what I can for free for the same results!
 
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