Helping dogs with fireworks

Ranyhyn said:
I think you’ve misread my post on account of the emotion you feel for your poor dog. I won’t elucidate further because I’ve been here long enough to know this is how the forum works but feel sure, that’s not what I meant.
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Having just re-read post #26, I don't think I did misinterpret it.

I think you missed the important point in my post. You cannot change (improve or worsen) a dog's innate fear by your behaviour - to use that well worn phrase "it is what it is".

There is no cure for noise phobia. The best you can hope for is improvement with management/medication but it is unrealistic to ever expect resolution.
 
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Agreed..If you look up at my post number 14, which I posted quite some time ago. I say just that.

My subsequent post is where a dog has no such starting fear.
 
Ranyhyn said:
Agreed..If you look up at my post number 14, which I posted quite some time ago. I say just that.

My subsequent post is where a dog has no such starting fear.
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That is true, a pup/ dog can appear completely normal and can go on to develop the fear of one sound at any age and if you are unlucky it can generalise to include many sounds.

Nothing the owner did or did not do has any influence on whether a dog will develop a fear of noise as it matures or whether an incident occurs which will trigger the fear at any age.
 
I’m afraid I don’t agree.

In the case of your average dog of course ;)

You keep saying THE dog, I think again you are bringing it down to a certain dog where we are talking about generally.

Of course there’ll always be exceptions to the norm but that’s not what we’re talking about, because we can’t, because we’re not experienced dog trainers (I assume)

Where your average dog is concerned - owner reaction has a massive impact on everything. Most people have taken their pup at 8-10 weeks old where it would have usually stayed with it’s mother for a shed load longer. You take the mantle of mother, you teach it the response to almost everything so of course it’s down to you as an owner and of course you can help your dog positively deal with loud noises.
 
Ranyhyn said:
I’m afraid I don’t agree.

In the case of your average dog of course ;)

You keep saying THE dog, I think again you are bringing it down to a certain dog where we are talking about generally.

Of course there’ll always be exceptions to the norm but that’s not what we’re talking about, because we can’t, because we’re not experienced dog trainers (I assume)

Where your average dog is concerned - owner reaction has a massive impact on everything. Most people have taken their pup at 8-10 weeks old where it would have usually stayed with it’s mother for a shed load longer. You take the mantle of mother, you teach it the response to almost everything so of course it’s down to you as an owner and of course you can help your dog positively deal with loud noises.
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Sadly, my current dog is not a lone dog who suffers with fear of fireworks. 49% of dogs are thought to be affected - that's a lot of "exceptions to the norm".

I have had one dog I raised from a pup, one of my GSDs, the rest have been rescues at various ages. I don't flatter myself that he showed no reaction to noise throughout his life because of anything I did.

Noise phobia is generally an INNATE fear.

Some dogs hide, some shake, some shut down and some destroy the house - mine tries to escape and run away from the sound - this is not a rare or unusual response.
 
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Ranyhyn said:
Hang on are you saying you cannot cause association with noise to a behaviour?

Pavlov wants a word..,
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This is getting ridiculous. I really think you need to do more research into noise phobia - as I have done and I am still learning.

The internet is a marvellous place for reading papers, studies and listening to lectures by veterinary behaviourists, veterinary neuroscientists and professors in animal behaviour.

I will continue to get my education and information from them, thank you.
 
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I think you need to read my posts properly again,ive never said you can cure a dog with a severe noise aversion.

I’m saying that owners without realising it can exacerbate normal levels of fear with their responses.

This has been echoed by many posters here.
 
Ranyhyn said:
I’m saying that owners without realising it can exacerbate normal levels of fear with their responses.

This has been echoed by many posters here.
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That may be the opinion of other posters but it is incorrect.

Fear is an emotion, it cannot be reinforced.

Behaviour can be reinforced ...... but we are discussing fear not behaviour.

I don't think there is any point discussing this further.
 
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Sukhpreet, I think you are doing a marvellous job preparing for your pup.

There is a lot of good advice on this thread about exposing pups to new stimuli, etc.

Unfortunately there will be some things outside your control, the early environment and learning are important but you can't fight genetics.

(even the environment and the stress level of the bitch when pregnant has an influence on fearful behaviour of her unborn pups and some breeds are genetically predisposed to noise phobia)
 
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If people aren't breeding for a 'purpose' or are selecting breeding animals on looks alone, then things like environmental soundness and the ability to cope with stress are forgotten about and it's when the problem arises it's too late.
As I said earlier, no one in my circle would *want* to buy or breed from a dog with noise sensitivity. It would be the same as breeding an aggressive dog or a non standard colour etc. A breed or type of dog that's never going to undergo any of testing and that sort of thing is going to slip through the net until it's fireworks night or someone is shooting or someone drops something or yells.
My older dog is not noise sensitive but he is on the very edge of his nerves - but it's his innate genetic ability to recover from stress and bounce back which keeps ticking. He gets through it, it's ok, no biggie. It has good and bad sides from a breeding and training point of view.
Breeding for environmental soundness isn't just the preserve of working or show breeders, everyone would expect a pet dog to be able to exist comfortably in a busy, noisy household in a suburban area.
But it seems to be very low down the list for breeders and buyers alike. As long as the dog looks cute and cuddly /rufty tufty :(

A dog I referred to in another thread is gunshy and every time we train we're back to square one depending on the light/venue/the way the wind is blowing/which starter pistol is used. The dog also dislikes crowds/other people in its' personal space. These things were not apparent until maturity and the owner took the dog everywhere and exposed it to everything.
The owner bred the dog and did all sorts of selection tests with the whole litter. The father and grandfather were world level competitors. The problem comes from the grandmother, who was sold from the continent and has since been spayed.
But some people can't see or don't want to see the problem in front of them. It got slightly worse with each generation.

I do remember boasting that my old show dog could have slept through a bomb going off and complaining that my young working dog jumped when we walked down a street and someone came out of a doorway suddenly, it annoyed me, but my trainer saying that a 'dead' dog was as problematic as an overly reactive dog....in an ideal world, a dog would show some sort of recognition...'hey, what was that? Oh it was nothing for me to worry about'.
 
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We could, but life can be noisy and loud in general, it is hard to protect a dog from sudden loud noises completely. For me (personally and without causing offence to anyone) there's more than one factor, as well as fireworks being annoying, people are breeding resilience out of dogs.
It obviously won't help people like SD who have dogs that are here on the ground and terrified, for whom the idea is cold comfort I am sure, but going forward, I just wish it was something that people thought about before deciding to let their animals reproduce. This is, I know, a bit of a side quest from the original post.
 
CorvusCorax said:
We could, but life can be noisy and loud in general, it is hard to protect a dog from sudden loud noises completely. For me (personally and without causing offence to anyone) there's more than one factor, as well as fireworks being annoying, people are breeding resilience out of dogs.
It obviously won't help people like SD who have dogs that are here on the ground and terrified, for whom the idea is cold comfort I am sure, but going forward, I just wish it was something that people thought about before deciding to let their animals reproduce. This is, I know, a bit of a side quest from the original post.
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Maybe for my next dog. I know who to come to for advice ;)

Totally off topic, I would have had another GSD in a heartbeat but couldn't find one that did not have issues of some description. Funny how things turn out. ..... Still, she has a lovely nature.
 
CorvusCorax said:
We could, but life can be noisy and loud in general, it is hard to protect a dog from sudden loud noises completely. For me (personally and without causing offence to anyone) there's more than one factor, as well as fireworks being annoying, people are breeding resilience out of dogs.
It obviously won't help people like SD who have dogs that are here on the ground and terrified, for whom the idea is cold comfort I am sure, but going forward, I just wish it was something that people thought about before deciding to let their animals reproduce. This is, I know, a bit of a side quest from the original post.
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Totally agree- I'd just like it if the loud and noisy things weren't let off from 5-11pm almost every night for about three weeks solid this time of year
 
it would make it easier for all animals to keep calm if fireworks were silent, that would include new year, birthdays, religious celebrations and obviously october and november when so many fireworks are let off. i am lucky as i have 2 dogs who have no reaction and dont own a horse anymore but the noise still gets on my nerves as it is so loud nowadays....but even if they were silent people and animals still get injured by them so i feel that only licensed organised displays (silent) should be allowed..
 
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