Herd Turnout Problems

[Bellalily]

I moved my two to a new yard two weeks ago and assumed no issues with herd as they've had it before with no problems. Eight horses out in seriously huge field which is also on a hill and has loads of space for them. Unfortunately one the first day they were fine until bringing in time when one of the owners inadvertently let mine through the first gate into the small space before the second gate and the boss of the field was also there and decided my two needed telling off. Ripped rugs and very battle scarred, my two are now point blank refusing to come anywhere near the gate until they are last. The big man is a wimp so not surprised at his reaction, but little man just stands miles away from the gate until everyone has gone. I’m having to wait until late. Yesterday the boss was gate guarding and it was hopeless, but literally as soon as he’d been caught, mine came trotting down the hill to me.
I’m sure there are some of you who have experienced this, but I can’t ride during the week as it’s so late and I do get v tired, and today I’d like them in early to do stuff with them, but I’ve no chance. There is one horse that they don’t run away from, but other than that, we have one that kicks and bites people and horses as well. Any suggestions?

 

[Peglo]

Could you catch and tie up the boss horse until your 2 are through the first gate and then let him loose again? Or put hay out away from the gate so he’s away from the gate when you leave?

 

[Jambarissa]

Can you bring in seriously early, like lunchtime? Basically before the herd moves towards the gate and starts waiting? Even just a few times of doing this might give them the confidence.

Do your horses trust you to defend them from the others? Do they think you are above the boss horse? If not at best they'll rush through when you open the gate.

You really need to be able to go in and make space and invite yours to the gate. This probably means going in with a stick and an attitude so will need support of the other owners. All horses should yield to people even if they deem the horse being taken out to be further down the pecking order.

We have 6 similar fields with herds from 8 - 16 horses. In all but 2 the horses stand near but not at the gate and allow other horses through when their owners show up (with occasional bad grace). The other 2 are similar to yours but the owners of the problem horses are problems themselves and it's difficult to resolve.

Take heart that it's only a few more weeks until they'll all still be grazing when you go to get them, and by next winter all will be calm. Herd living is ideal once the herd is settled.

 

[Bellalily]

No hay allowed unfortunately and not really, it’s not just him, they are scared of all except one and even then they won’t get close up.

Could you catch and tie up the boss horse until your 2 are through the first gate and then let him loose again? Or put hay out away from the gate so he’s away from the gate when you leave?

 

[Bellalily]

Can you bring in seriously early, like lunchtime? Basically before the herd moves towards the gate and starts waiting? Even just a few times of doing this might give them the confidence.

Do your horses trust you to defend them from the others? Do they think you are above the boss horse? If not at best they'll rush through when you open the gate.

You really need to be able to go in and make space and invite yours to the gate. This probably means going in with a stick and an attitude so will need support of the other owners. All horses should yield to people even if they deem the horse being taken out to be further down the pecking order.

We have 6 similar fields with herds from 8 - 16 horses. In all but 2 the horses stand near but not at the gate and allow other horses through when their owners show up (with occasional bad grace). The other 2 are similar to yours but the owners of the problem horses are problems themselves and it's difficult to resolve.

Take heart that it's only a few more weeks until they'll all still be grazing when you go to get them, and by next winter all will be calm. Herd living is ideal once the herd is settled.

I don’t get down till about 3.30 after work. I don’t seem to have any support, even the girl who does the extras wasn’t happy at having to get the one gate guarding in so I could go in and fetch mine. I don’t really want to use a stick. Just so disappointed and we may still have the worst of the winter to come.

 

[Bellalily]

Yes they rush thru and the ones behind try to as well. Then I have to do it all again for the other one.

 

[AmyMay]

I would leave everything settle for a month, and then reevaluate.

 

[Pinkvboots]

This is why big herd turnout with no hay is a problem because if the horses all go out early by early afternoon they are all starving and get angry, then they are all desperate to get in and it makes the gateway dangerous for people and horses that are wanting to come in.

Apart from moving all the horses yours are scared of there is not much else you can do really it would get me down having to do this everyday.

 

[YorksG]

What is the reasoning behind no hay in the field? I do think it is the cause of a lot of horses being bargy and rushing to get in.

 

[magicmoments]

Can you bring in seriously early, like lunchtime? Basically before the herd moves towards the gate and starts waiting? Even just a few times of doing this might give them the confidence.

Do your horses trust you to defend them from the others? Do they think you are above the boss horse? If not at best they'll rush through when you open the gate.

You really need to be able to go in and make space and invite yours to the gate. This probably means going in with a stick and an attitude so will need support of the other owners. All horses should yield to people even if they deem the horse being taken out to be further down the pecking order.

We have 6 similar fields with herds from 8 - 16 horses. In all but 2 the horses stand near but not at the gate and allow other horses through when their owners show up (with occasional bad grace). The other 2 are similar to yours but the owners of the problem horses are problems themselves and it's difficult to resolve.

Take heart that it's only a few more weeks until they'll all still be grazing when you go to get them, and by next winter all will be calm. Herd living is ideal once the herd is settled.

I totally agree. As I've often had horses lower down the rankings, I will make my presence known to the higher ranking horses by taking in what ever I think necessary to protect my horse, moving the higher ranking horses away from me even as I enter the field, to give my horse confidence. Could be a schooling whip, lunge whip, or just twirling a lead rope, and I absolutely will make contact if my determination alone does not appear to be clear enough. Horses are too big and powerful to risk my safety, never mind that of my horse.

 

[holeymoley]

I had this for about 2 months. Mine were coming in bitten and with chunks of hair missing and getting them out the gate was a nightmare. There was also reports of them being chased and cornered. I had a lengthy chat with YO and basically said it was downright dangerous and my horse's were miserable. Thankfully I now have a field on the yard for mine and another quiet one and they are miles happier. As am I, now not terrified of being bitten/kicked/crushed at the gate!

 

[Pinkvboots]

I totally agree. As I've often had horses lower down the rankings, I will make my presence known to the higher ranking horses by taking in what ever I think necessary to protect my horse, moving the higher ranking horses away from me even as I enter the field, to give my horse confidence. Could be a schooling whip, lunge whip, or just twirling a lead rope, and I absolutely will make contact if my determination alone does not appear to be clear enough. Horses are too big and powerful to risk my safety, never mind that of my horse.

I totally agree. As I've often had horses lower down the rankings, I will make my presence known to the higher ranking horses by taking in what ever I think necessary to protect my horse, moving the higher ranking horses away from me even as I enter the field, to give my horse confidence. Could be a schooling whip, lunge whip, or just twirling a lead rope, and I absolutely will make contact if my determination alone does not appear to be clear enough. Horses are too big and powerful to risk my safety, never mind that of my horse.

But waving whips and lead ropes is not the answer and still dangerous as you are causing them all to run around while you are in the field.

It's down to bad management of horses you can't expect a happy herd when they are all stood in mud starving.

I've been on yards where some horses don't even get hay before going out on a virtually bare of grass field.

 

[AmyMay]

Out of interest, do the other horses keep away from Boss horse?

 

[magicmoments]

But waving whips and lead ropes is not the answer and still dangerous as you are causing them all to run around while you are in the field.

It's down to bad management of horses you can't expect a happy herd when they are all stood in mud starving.

I've been on yards where some horses don't even get hay before going out on a virtually bare of grass field.

I'm not getting the herd to run, I'm just making sure that the higher up the rankings move away from me, it is usually at a walk. As much as necessary, but as little as possible is my moto, and would only be to those I deem a threat to us. Unfortunately when you're on a livery yard you don't usually have a say on which horses are in with yours.
Totally agree about lack of anything to eat in the field though.

 

[AmyMay]

I have to say, I’ve always been on livery. Large fields, with probably 10 horses in each. Well managed, so always grass. There may always be a top dog, but if a herd is settled then there should be no issue with any horse being brought in at any time.

However, dynamics are always upset by the introduction of a new horse, and there has to be a period where things are allowed to settle down. All waving things around serves to do is wind things up further.

So unless things are genuinely dangerous I would simply give a period of grace, and write off doing anything with your horses until a period of time has passed.

 

[Bellalily]

I had this for about 2 months. Mine were coming in bitten and with chunks of hair missing and getting them out the gate was a nightmare. There was also reports of them being chased and cornered. I had a lengthy chat with YO and basically said it was downright dangerous and my horse's were miserable. Thankfully I now have a field on the yard for mine and another quiet one and they are miles happier. As am I, now not terrified of being bitten/kicked/crushed at the gate!

Good Lord this the first half could have been written by me. Another livery and I tried to get mine in tonight, but the one who shall not be named, chased them away across the field as well as them squealing, which I’ve rarely heard. The little one is clearly not relaxed as he hasn’t even rolled for a week (he did roll during the time “it” wasn’t in the field, but nothing now. He’s nearly 29 and not happy. We eventually managed to get mine in after she caught and held “it” well away from the gate, but obviously this isn’t ideal. Going to have a chat with YO tonight.

 

[magicmoments]

I have to say, I’ve always been on livery. Large fields, with probably 10 horses in each. Well managed, so always grass. There may always be a top dog, but if a herd is settled then there should be no issue with any horse being brought in at any time.

However, dynamics are always upset by the introduction of a new horse, and there has to be a period where things are allowed to settle down. All waving things around serves to do is wind things up further.

So unless things are genuinely dangerous I would simply give a period of grace, and write off doing anything with your horses until a period of time has passed.

 

[magicmoments]

Unfortunately, many yards locally don't allow hay in fields in the winter and have very little grass. It's something I've always hated, and therefore managed my horse very carefully. I ended up moving my horse to a track system, but that had it's own compromises.
Waving things around, does not have to wind things up when done with consideration, as I do. Clearly that's not how my post has come across.

 

[magicmoments]

What is the reasoning behind no hay in the field? I do think it is the cause of a lot of horses being bargy and rushing to get in.

Because there can be too many problems, such as who puts the hay out each day, do they put enough piles out, makes a mess of the field creating poaching, and left over hay, not all owners wanting hay out as they want their horse to lose weight over the winter. In my experience many owners don't know or acknowledge that horses shouldn't be going without food for more than 4 hours at a time. They say they'll find something to eat, and some owners horses will have no hay left from the night before, and go straight out to nothing in the field too.

 

[Bellalily]

Not going to happen, I have one unhappy pony too scared to roll, too scared to come up to me in the field. He’s almost 29, I’m not putting him under any stress of any kind. He deserves life where he can relax in the field, not spend the day in high alert. I’ve watched him today and he’s not eating, he’s just standing there, and yes there’s grass.

 

[AmyMay]

Not going to happen, I have one unhappy pony too scared to roll, too scared to come up to me in the field. He’s almost 29, I’m not putting him under any stress of any kind. He deserves life where he can relax in the field, not spend the day in high alert. I’ve watched him today and he’s not eating, he’s just standing there, and yes there’s grass.

In that case, yes you need to take imm action. Good luck x

 

[Archangel]

Not going to happen, I have one unhappy pony too scared to roll, too scared to come up to me in the field. He’s almost 29, I’m not putting him under any stress of any kind. He deserves life where he can relax in the field, not spend the day in high alert. I’ve watched him today and he’s not eating, he’s just standing there, and yes there’s grass.

That's awful.

Aside from all the gate shenanigans, a 29 year old should not be in a scrum situation like this (not getting at you btw) and a decent yard owner should not have allowed this in the first place.

I know you have just moved but I think you need to look for somewhere else pronto.

Good luck - owning horses is such a stress sometimes isn't it.

 

[Pinkvboots]

Unfortunately, many yards locally don't allow hay in fields in the winter and have very little grass. It's something I've always hated, and therefore managed my horse very carefully. I ended up moving my horse to a track system, but that had it's own compromises.
Waving things around, does not have to wind things up when done with consideration, as I do. Clearly that's not how my post has come across.

When I had Arabi on livery in a large herd he was a boss all barely 15h of him he wasn't evil but no horse would go near the gate if he was there.

I wouldn't want people I don't really know going into a field with my horses when I'm not there with a whip although they did and on one occasion he fell over and cut his face.

So for me I wouldn't be happy with it and I did everything I could to make other people's life easier by feeding him hay in the morning and bringing him in early in winter, but I couldn't be there all the time but everyone knew if I was there they only had to ask and I would fetch him in.

But you get people that turn out at dawn and bring in when dark in winter and abuse the situation, and that's when the trouble starts because they are all hungry then and makes it dangerous.

 

[magicmoments]

When I had Arabi on livery in a large herd he was a boss all barely 15h of him he wasn't evil but no horse would go near the gate if he was there.

I wouldn't want people I don't really know going into a field with my horses when I'm not there with a whip although they did and on one occasion he fell over and cut his face.

So for me I wouldn't be happy with it and I did everything I could to make other people's life easier by feeding him hay in the morning and bringing him in early in winter, but I couldn't be there all the time but everyone knew if I was there they only had to ask and I would fetch him in.

But you get people that turn out at dawn and bring in when dark in winter and abuse the situation, and that's when the trouble starts because they are all hungry then and makes it dangerous.

I agree there are many leaders who are fair, but dominant all the same. It sounds like you did everything you could, but that is not always the case.
I can say that no one else's horse has been injured by my actions, or would I want injured, but I also don't want to be in the middle of a very dangerous situation that could have been avoided had I been more assertive in the first place.

 

[Bellalily]

In that case, yes you need to take imm action. Good luck x

Thank you! Really appreciate it.

 

[holeymoley]

Not going to happen, I have one unhappy pony too scared to roll, too scared to come up to me in the field. He’s almost 29, I’m not putting him under any stress of any kind. He deserves life where he can relax in the field, not spend the day in high alert. I’ve watched him today and he’s not eating, he’s just standing there, and yes there’s grass.

What a shame. They really do pick on the youngsters and oldies. Mine is 22 and he was absolutely miserable. He likes to stay out the way in general and to see him being targeted a chased for no reason was awful. The other is a youngster and yes, he does play, but there comes a point where playing then becomes getting pinned in to a corner. Both of them are much happier now, like you say, mine have now been rolling. Older one just generally looks happier and less depressed. They even all graze alongside each other now . Please get yours moved, it doesn't bare thinking about what could happen to them when they're older and not as robust. They don't deserve it either at that age.

 

[Bellalily]

What a shame. They really do pick on the youngsters and oldies. Mine is 22 and he was absolutely miserable. He likes to stay out the way in general and to see him being targeted a chased for no reason was awful. The other is a youngster and yes, he does play, but there comes a point where playing then becomes getting pinned in to a corner. Both of them are much happier now, like you say, mine have now been rolling. Older one just generally looks happier and less depressed. They even all graze alongside each other now . Please get yours moved, it doesn't bare thinking about what could happen to them when they're older and not as robust. They don't deserve it either at that age.

Thank you for the incredibly kind comment, made me . They definitely aren’t going out there again. I’m hoping they will be able to find a field/paddock for them, if not, we are off. I’ve started making enquiries already.

 

[Pinkvboots]

I agree there are many leaders who are fair, but dominant all the same. It sounds like you did everything you could, but that is not always the case.
I can say that no one else's horse has been injured by my actions, or would I want injured, but I also don't want to be in the middle of a very dangerous situation that could have been avoided had I been more assertive in the first place.

I found it hard going sometimes having a horse that is feared by other horses I would get calls from liveries all the time asking where I was, that's why I changed his management so he wasn't out in the field at busy bring in times.

But I appreciate its not easy not being able to get your horse in, I've worked on yards where its been awful trying to fetch in and trying to get them through the gate.

I've always said I think getting horses in from a field is one of the most dangerous things you do looking after them.

 

[rextherobber]

If the field is so massive, could the YO not fence off 4-5 acres for your two? It sounds miserable for everyone, and not safe for horses or humans. Good luck getting sorted, or finding somewhere else, very soon!

 

[Bellalily]

Mine wouldn’t even approach the gate and as it’s in a corner of the field, I’m not about to be an equine sandwich or worse. Will see what suggestions the yard owner has tomorrow.