Herds

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dumpling

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Could someone explain a bit more about the herd and difirentiating(sp?) between leader, etc

Reason being, ive just moved my boy into his winter field which involves being in with 2 new horses.

At previous yards he's always been somewhere in the middle, he's more of a 'eats the grass and stays out of trouble' boy.

When we introduced them yesterday we put mine in with the lower of current herd first (call him p3) that was fine, no conflict and it was clear my boy(p1) was 'above' p3.

Then introduced p2 which was herd leader. P2 and mine had a bit of a squeal and front leg strike out thing and then p2 wondered off with p1 behind him as if he was guiding him.

Now to me that means p1(my boy) is now herd leader? Said to owner of both p2 & p3 and she said oh no, p2 is still the leader , he wouldn't give in... ?!

Any opinions? Just curious as it's interesting watching them.
 
I learnt all this stuff years ago with my degree and have forgotten it all now! I think that generally the herd lead will 'herd' horses from the rear - as happened with our mare and loan horse, she always drove him from the back...unless she WANTED to be in front in which case she would give him a very big warning that she is taking the lead.
 
It is worth knowing that the most dominant horse (sometimes called the "alpha") is not necessarily the same as the "leader" in the sense of the (typically) older, more experienced horse that the others choose to follow. Usually they are different individuals. There is an awful lot of confusion between these two roles.

(This will be familiar to those who know of Mark Rashid's "passive leadership" theory, although ethologists have known about this for a long time. http://www.markrashid.com/passive_leadership.htm)
 
Elbie said:
I learnt all this stuff years ago with my degree and have forgotten it all now! I think that generally the herd lead will 'herd' horses from the rear - as happened with our mare and loan horse, she always drove him from the back...unless she WANTED to be in front in which case she would give him a very big warning that she is taking the lead.
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That sounds like the dominant mare. Dominant horses are only able to push subordinates out of the way - that's what they are good at - so any 'herding' must be done from the rear. They can't force other horses to follow them, as that is a matter of choice. If horses choose to follow a dominant, it is in spite of the dominance not because of it. Following seems to me to be much more about recognizing wisdom and experience (trusting that the "lead" horse won't lead them into trouble) than "respect" for the dominant's superior pushiness.

I think the tendency to follow is important, as is the willingness to be herded (certainly afforded to the stallion in a mixed sex group). However, I don't think enough credit is given to horses' instinct to stay together and to coordinate their movements with each other. In my opinion, horses are not as reliant for their survival on the "leadership" of a single individual than is sometimes thought.
 
Fany Du Champ said:
Just wanted to add that positions in the herd can change from day to day and from situation to situation.
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Good point. Which horse is leader (in the "one who is followed" sense) can vary, and one horse may be dominant regarding food and another dominant regarding access to water. The situation is particularly fluid when the herd composition is regularly changed by adding and removing horses.
 
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