hfffff he was scoped yesterday

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Horsekaren

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I finally had my horse scoped yesterday having wondered about Ulcers for a few months. Before that we had a positive hind gut bleeding Succeed test, bloods show inflammation somewhere and he has been on steroids and balancers.
The Scope was very interesting, at first we believed we had grade two ulcers, 40 minutes searching they managed to get back into the same spot with the air and water and would you believe it went from grade two ulcers to the water actually washing what looked like ulcers away :o im glad they spent so much time focusing on that area as that would have been a false diagnosis! very thorough!
The only thing we really got from it was the opening to his small intestine was a bit pinker than normal.... everything else was fine.


I believe the next step is an ultrasound of the hind gut to see if anything shows up.

Has anyone else had a similar result from a scope? i was sooooo sure he was going to have them but the saga continues :(
 
When you had the positive succeed test did your vet check for migrating redworm? This has to be checked via a blood test and can give a false positive result with the succeed test if your horse has them.

We thought one of mine had ulcers because of his behaviour and a positive hind gut succeed test but scope showed a very healthy stomach and blood test confirmed migrating redworm. Further investigations led to pain elsewhere in the body which is what was causing the behaviour.
 
Wheels said:
When you had the positive succeed test did your vet check for migrating redworm? This has to be checked via a blood test and can give a false positive result with the succeed test if your horse has them.

We thought one of mine had ulcers because of his behaviour and a positive hind gut succeed test but scope showed a very healthy stomach and blood test confirmed migrating redworm. Further investigations led to pain elsewhere in the body which is what was causing the behaviour.
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Hi Wheels, Yes he has had a blood tests for worms and it was negative.
i know it's bad to keep trying to guess what is going on but i cant help myself.

so far we have had-

*Positive Succeed test for hind gut bleeding

*Scoped-no stomach ulcers found but slight pinkness near intestine opening

*Bloods tests show inflammation somewhere

*2 months of steroids and balancers

*2nd blood tests showed improvement but still high

*** With all of this going on he also had a respiratory infectiondue to dust which has now cleared.


- The symptoms are---
*girthy
*hates being touched every where but especially towards flanks
*cow kicking at rugs
*kicking out when picking feet
*up and down appetite, always eats feed but some nights will eat half as much hay as day before
*Dozes off and goes wobbly on his feet (like he is shutting down in a response to pain or stress)
*moody (much better since sterroids but not good enough)
*face fulling
*biting
*yawning
*rolling in stable and field
*sometimes aggressive
* bargy when going out occasionally but this is him desperate to roll in the field
*he drinks quiet a lot/ wees also
*no weight loss
*good to ride
*good coat/ condition

8 yo 15.3 cob gelding
 
Horsekaren said:
Hi Wheels, Yes he has had a blood tests for worms and it was negative.
i know it's bad to keep trying to guess what is going on but i cant help myself.

so far we have had-

*Positive Succeed test for hind gut bleeding

*Scoped-no stomach ulcers found but slight pinkness near intestine opening

*Bloods tests show inflammation somewhere

*2 months of steroids and balancers

*2nd blood tests showed improvement but still high

*** With all of this going on he also had a respiratory infectiondue to dust which has now cleared.


- The symptoms are---
*girthy
*hates being touched every where but especially towards flanks
*cow kicking at rugs
*kicking out when picking feet
*up and down appetite, always eats feed but some nights will eat half as much hay as day before
*Dozes off and goes wobbly on his feet (like he is shutting down in a response to pain or stress)
*moody (much better since sterroids but not good enough)
*face fulling
*biting
*yawning
*rolling in stable and field
*sometimes aggressive
* bargy when going out occasionally but this is him desperate to roll in the field
*he drinks quiet a lot/ wees also
*no weight loss
*good to ride
*good coat/ condition

8 yo 15.3 cob gelding
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I am assuming you are using the insurance? If you are I'd be tempted to go full whack and ask to be refereed to an equine hospital, your insurance will likely exclude him going forwards for gut issues if you are claiming. So you might as well get everything you can now.

If you are not going through insurance then I would ask your vet for an ultra sound to see if that shows anything.
 
Much as it is nice to have an answer/cause I think at the moment I would consider this a good thing!
Get the scan of the hindgut done and see what that throws up and you can discuss whether to do more with the vet then.
 
He is insured :)

What do you mean refereed to an equine hospital? he is with a equine vets, they are located about 30 mins from me. Sorry if i sound stupid but is an equine hospital different?

How do you test for PSSM? having read up on this very quickly i dismissed it as he isn't lacking energy or reluctant to go forward which seems to be key symptoms?

All of the above mentions symptoms are still occurring since starting the steroids and balancer the below has improved-

- mood has lifted but not fully, before he would pull faces constantly, now we will only get one or two a day with rugs and feet.

- he isn't barging off as much, maybe once every 14 days he will be agitated in the morning and desperate to role

-He isn't falling and going wobbly in the field any more, i have seen him do this a couple of times in his stable. He has started to lay down and roll in his stable which he had stopped doing. He was very unstable when sedated, front legs out strait in front of him, leaning back and belly about 5 inches off the floor.

-Ridden, he seems to have a lot more impulsion and isn't resisting me

The only symptom that has got worse recently is the kicking of his back legs when rugging and picking feet. I however feel a bit nervous around them as having seen him try and boot my friend i am now overly cautious, i do the front foot and stand at his front shoulder with a schooling whip to tap his hind leg. He seems to have one firm pick up, sometimes kick then he will hold it nicely for me to come and pick it up... maybe that's helping maybe not


I am waiting for a call back with a ultrasound scan date, they are also going to take some fluid out of his abdomen to see if that throws light on anything.
 
TBH your symptom list just says to me that your horse is in pain, that much you already know but try not to get hung up on the hind gut. He may well have hind gut issues but he could also have any number of other things going on as well as or instead of that.

I would echo the above of referral to an equine hospital and get some diagnostics done at this point
 
Wheels said:
TBH your symptom list just says to me that your horse is in pain, that much you already know but try not to get hung up on the hind gut. He may well have hind gut issues but he could also have any number of other things going on as well as or instead of that.

I would echo the above of referral to an equine hospital and get some diagnostics done at this point
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i know I'm getting hung up , the only thing I have to cling to is the positive Succeed test.
I guess the plan is scan and then see what they say from there.
 
Sounds like you are on the right track then as several things have improved, I assume the vet wants to keep going with the steroids and balancer whilst you wait for the ultrasound date? I'd go with that plan personally and then once you get those results the vets should be able to suggest if anything else needs to be checked. Perhaps he has an underlying hind limb issue since that's where he's still showing signs of discomfort but it could also be from those hind gut ulcers; so you need the can to find out which it is and then you can go from there hence the scan.
People are suggesting an equine hospital as they can go there as an inpatient and have a raft of diagnostic tests in a short timescale to try and get to the bottom of the issue. However sometimes there are waiting lists and it's an added expense as you have to pay for the vets livery/care fees on top of treatment. As it sounds like you are making good progress and have a happier horse I'd personally stick with your current vets plan. But if you want results quicker then you can ask your vet to refer you to the nearest hospital. Good luck.
 
Have you had a blood test for tapeworm ? I've known horses with a high tapeworm burden show a positive succeed test and show hind gut type symptoms. Unlikely but worth considering as we were very surprised to see one that had followed a wec/worm plan start being very grumpy with gut issues and that was the result
 
Horsekaren said:
i know I'm getting hung up , the only thing I have to cling to is the positive Succeed test.
I guess the plan is scan and then see what they say from there.
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Those tests in the grande scheme of things have many flaws. They do not diagnose anything specific, they are just a small (and fairly unreliable) part of a bigger picture.

Have you tried a course of bute/danilon? If not why not ask the vet about that?
 
Worm test has been run and that was clear so that didn't lead to the positive Succeed result.

I know the tests are a bit hit and miss but the fact i got the positive result where i expected it to be in the hind gut it just makes sense.
He hasn't been on pain killers as these can be an irritant to the hind gut.

i almost wish it was stomach ulcers so we could have started treatment, i'm just preying the scan shows something that we can start treating appropriately rather than trialing steroids.
 
I have no suggestions. Just want to wish you well with the ongoing investigations. You don’t deserve this amount of worry with a first horse.
 
Sparemare said:
I have no suggestions. Just want to wish you well with the ongoing investigations. You don’t deserve this amount of worry with a first horse.
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It's just gets worse, received a call at four saying he was going nuts in his stable rearing, walking , kicking really agitated.

Went over he had done one small poo in two hours, oddest behaviour was he wee'd about 7 times in one hour! Tried to poo bit couldn't. Kicked his belly a few times. Called the vet and walked him around for a while. Tail swishing then calmed, then his willy went hard and he started to hit his belly with that.

Back in stable he was much happier and munched away. Then stopped so he came out again, walked about then tied up with a net. Just put him back in and he pood on his hay. Vet seems to think he may have had a mild colic attack.

I'm just at a loss, it's heart breaking. He just looks so well but something is very wrong.
 
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Hi Karen, my pony was scoped (had some of the symptoms you describe but maybe not as severe), scope showed the same slight pinkness and inflammation at the opening to small intestine.

Was prescribed a month course of Suraflate, symptoms massively improved and is now on supplements - Thunderbook Gut Restore and Ulsa Gon. Suggested to vet re-scoping to see if inflammation was reduced but vet was happy enough that if symptoms reduced that was enough evidence of improvement.

Good luck
 
Horsekaren said:
It's just gets worse, received a call at four saying he was going nuts in his stable rearing, walking , kicking really agitated.

Went over he had done one small poo in two hours, oddest behaviour was he wee'd about 7 times in one hour! Tried to poo bit couldn't. Kicked his belly a few times. Called the vet and walked him around for a while. Tail swishing then calmed, then his willy went hard and he started to hit his belly with that.

Back in stable he was much happier and munched away. Then stopped so he came out again, walked about then tied up with a net. Just put him back in and he pood on his hay. Vet seems to think he may have had a mild colic attack.

I'm just at a loss, it's heart breaking. He just looks so well but something is very wrong.
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Can't offer any advice medical wise but I and I'm sure a lot of others on here really feel for you having to go through all this aggravation with your first horse. Hope everything turns out well in the end both for your sake and that of your horse.
 
I still haven't got to the bottom of my ponies problem. He shows many of the symptoms that yours shows and has been scoped (clear) scanned (slight inflammation of small intestine) had 2 long courses of steroids and sucralfate with little or no improvement. I also tested him for PSSM which was negative. I still do not know whether the symptoms he has are because his muscles hurt or because of mild IBD (vet diagnosis) but I do know it is due to sugars in the grass and hay.
What seems to work for him is turnout overnight with a muzzle and stabled during the day on 12 hour soaked hay. This will probably have to change as soon as the grass starts to grow.
Its taken me a while to get him comfortable and the vet hass dismissed PSSM but I'm not convinced.
Good luck with your pony.
 
I know he is only 8 but I would be asking for a Cushings test, and a blood sugar test as he drinks and wees a lot. But a referral to a specialist Equine hospital while the insurance is paying.
 
the difference between vet and equine hospital is quite different.

Equine hospitals will run test after test usually over a couple of days (overnight stay may be needed) but they are usually much quicker at finding the problem. This doesn't mean you can't carry on with your vet after though.

The only reason I mention this is your insurance will only let you claim for the same problem for a certain period, if you go over this time then you will have to cover the costs as your Horse will now be excluded.

For Example my Horse was diagnosed with Hock arthritis. From the date of diagnosis I had a year of treatment before I would have to pay for treatment myself. I didn't hang about with treatments and tried 5 treatments (non successful so she is now a field ornament)
 
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