HGV Drivers - CPC

[PorkChop]

I don't know how many of you that hold HGV/LGV licenses realise that by law you need to complete your CPC. This involves attending 35 hours of classroom theory.

It's a bit of a grey area, but anyone who transports their horse to a show/event etc that could reap a reward needs a CPC before September 2014. This also applies to farmers that take stock to market.

This applies to anything over 7.5tons.

In the middle of my first day, it is sooooooo boring. I certainly would not have known if it wasn't for the fact that we have our own business that has a fleet of lorries.

Yet another way to obtain more money from us

 

[sillygillyhorse]

Yes I have an HGV and am aware of CPC but I am a private user who drivers own horses, I occasionally get prize money but never cover my costs! From the extensive research I have done including reading the guide produced by VOSA, H&H plus other bodies, I don't need to do CPC.

ROG on this forum will be able to answer any questions regarding this.

 

[PorkChop]

It's a grey area, however out transport manager has looked into it in depth and even if you win a rosette you are deemed to have obtained a reward. Ridiculous I know, and I expect most people will decide to risk it.

Also I have been told today it is any wagon over 3.5 ton.

I look forward to ROG's take on the situation.

 

[Baggybreeches]

Urgh! I was having this discussion with my OH who is due to renew his HGV next year (the big 50), whether it is really worth it or not, we always kept it as a 'just in case' but TBH the last time I needed to do some driving jobs the agencies weren't interested in a woman who had driven a horsebox, they would rather have trunk drivers (who would knock the corners off wagons and buildings regularly!). It's a damned if you and damned if you don't situation isn't it?

 

[sillygillyhorse]

Not as I understand it from this VOSA document. Page 19 first paragraph under section 1 Certificate of Competance quite clearly states these rules do not apply for personal use even when a minor cash prize may be involved

Www.dft.gov.uk/VOSA/repository/Horsebox Guide low res.pdf

 

[Slightlyconfused]

My dad is a class one driver and has just done his third day two weeks ago.....he said its the biggest load of crap going and as he is self imployed it takes a days work away (yes it goes against tax but it still doesn't cover a days work)

 

[PorkChop]

Not as I understand it from this VOSA document. Page 19 first paragraph under section 1 Certificate of Competance quite clearly states these rules do not apply for personal use even when a minor cash prize may be involved

Www.dft.gov.uk/VOSA/repository/Horsebox Guide low res.pdf

I absolutely get what you are saying, we were in the same frame of mind

 

[PorkChop]

My dad is a class one driver and has just done his third day two weeks ago.....he said its the biggest load of crap going and as he is self imployed it takes a days work away (yes it goes against tax but it still doesn't cover a days work)

Completely agree, we did have a good moan at the lady who was coaching us, poor thing, not her fault.

Her thoughts on the subject are that they are really tightening up all aspects in order that the UK is more on a par with other EU countries.

It's just the constant expense, we are paying for our drivers to get their CPC. But I know plenty of others that have to fund themselves, CPC course and a new card

 

[sillygillyhorse]

I suspect many of the staff who stop horseboxes have their own interpretation of the rules. For that reason I carry a copy of the document in the link in the truck. My thoughts are it may be useful to have the guidelines in writing and with me in the event of being stopped.

 

[ROG]

I don't know how many of you that hold HGV/LGV licenses realise that by law you need to complete your CPC. This involves attending 35 hours of classroom theory.

It's a bit of a grey area, but anyone who transports their horse to a show/event etc that could reap a reward needs a CPC before September 2014. This also applies to farmers that take stock to market.

This applies to anything over 7.5tons.

In the middle of my first day, it is sooooooo boring. I certainly would not have known if it wasn't for the fact that we have our own business that has a fleet of lorries.

Yet another way to obtain more money from us

ONLY LGV drivers who drive COMMERCIALLY need to have a current DQC (driver cpc card) or ghost DQC if got aquired rights until 09/09/2014

VOSA have been very clear on the issue of rewards - they do not count as commercial driving

Commercial driving is where a profit is or is intended to be made as part of a business

 

[Slightlyconfused]

Thanks ROG. That's a relief that we don't have to put sister through it once she passes her class 2!

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG. That's a relief that we don't have to put sister through it once she passes her class 2!

If she drives say an 18 tonne horsebox privately then no initial or periodic dcpc required ..... unless she is under age 21 and driving a LGV over 7.5 tonnes in which case she will need the initial dcpc to do so

 

[PorkChop]

ONLY LGV drivers who drive COMMERCIALLY need to have a current DQC (driver cpc card) or ghost DQC if got aquired rights until 09/09/2014

VOSA have been very clear on the issue of rewards - they do not count as commercial driving

Commercial driving is where a profit is or is intended to be made as part of a business

Fair enough, that's just not what I am being told Well I suppose if I do it then I will definitely be covered

 

[ROG]

For those that are doing the periodic dcpc and the EU regs .....

If you are being instructed or paid to do a dcpc course then it counts as work and should be recorded officially

If you choose to do a dcpc course then it counts as rest

 

[ROG]

Fair enough, that's just not what I am being told

Told by who ?

 

[PorkChop]

Told by who ?

By our transport manager who has spoken to VOSA, and by the CPC instructor.
They have both said it is a grey area, however they thought that as VOSA are becoming more strict it was safer to take the course.

Ultimately it is unlikely that I would be stopped, however not impossible and I just can't take that risk tbh.

That being said, there are lots of people driving around with overweight lorries and no operations license and getting away with it.

 

[ROG]

By our transport manager who has spoken to VOSA, and by the CPC instructor.
They have both said it is a grey area, however they thought that as VOSA are becoming more strict it was safer to take the course.

Ultimately it is unlikely that I would be stopped, however not impossible and I just can't take that risk tbh.

That being said, there are lots of people driving around with overweight lorries and no operations license and getting away with it.

There are no grey areas but if TM wants to get something in writing then I suggest TM emails VOSA with the precise situation for a definitive

 

[sillygillyhorse]

As the OP is referring to "their transport manager" I am assuming it is a commercial enterprise and therefore they will need a CPC.

The original post saying all HGV drivers need to do this is rather misleading as it is not the case.

The link I posted is a VOSA document that is concise, clear and easy to follow, definitely worth printing a copy and carrying it in your vehicle, it is designed more for the private user and clarifies that such users do not need to have a CPC even in situations where they may win minor prize money.

 

[Irishcobs]

So if a groom for a livery yard was to transport liveries to an event the groom would need a CPC as the livery owners are paying the livery yard for the transport is this correct?

 

[sillygillyhorse]

So if a groom for a livery yard was to transport liveries to an event the groom would need a CPC as the livery owners are paying the livery yard for the transport is this correct?

My understanding is yes, the groom is driving commercially as it is part of their job and they get paid for doing so. If the owner of the livery yard is charging clients to transport their horses then they are operating commercially and should have an operators licence which is a whole different ball game!

This is my interpretation but am interested to see if it is what others think.

 

[Goldenstar]

So if a groom for a livery yard was to transport liveries to an event the groom would need a CPC as the livery owners are paying the livery yard for the transport is this correct?

Yes that's my understanding .

 

[Irishcobs]

Ok so I guess that is the Driver CPC not the Operator CPC?

 

[sillygillyhorse]

Groom would need driver CPC and probably the CPC relating to horse care/handling

 

[Irishcobs]

Groom would need driver CPC and probably the CPC relating to horse care/handling

Ok thanks, I've just checked and because I passed in July 2009 I just have to do the 35 hours training not the initial qualification so I don't have to do the theory or practical tests. Hope I've got that right.

 

[ROG]

Ok thanks, I've just checked and because I passed in July 2009 I just have to do the 35 hours training not the initial qualification so I don't have to do the theory or practical tests. Hope I've got that right.

You have

35 periodic dcpc hours before 09/09/2014 if you want to drive LGVs commercially for the next 5 years after that date

The DSA system would not allow you to book the initial dcpc modules

 

[ROG]

Groom would need driver CPC and probably the CPC relating to horse care/handling

groom = driver cpc
vehicle owner = operator cpc

 

[PorkChop]

As the OP is referring to "their transport manager" I am assuming it is a commercial enterprise and therefore they will need a CPC.

The original post saying all HGV drivers need to do this is rather misleading as it is not the case.

Yes, we have a commercial enterprise, which luckily allows me to take any of the training I want, however I do not drive commercially.

I didn't mean all HGV drivers, just the one's that may obtain reward from driving their lorry, ie prizes.

 

[ROG]

I didn't mean all HGV drivers, just the one's that may obtain reward from driving their lorry, ie prizes.

Prizes, rossettes, small cash wins DO NOT require the driver to have the DCPC

 

[Irishcobs]

You have

35 periodic dcpc hours before 09/09/2014 if you want to drive LGVs commercially for the next 5 years after that date

The DSA system would not allow you to book the initial dcpc modules

Thanks ROG. Does that mean I have until 09/09/2014 to do the CPC or do I need it to transport livery horses now?

 

[ROG]

Thanks ROG. Does that mean I have until 09/09/2014 to do the CPC or do I need it to transport livery horses now?

Because you had a LGV category on your licence before 10/09/2009 you have aquired/grandfather DCPC rights = that means you have a GHOST DQC valid until 09/09/2014