HHO, "popularity" through all talk and no trousers/those that shout the loudest?!

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KatB

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I just want to point out this is not aimed at anyone, but just a mulling. :D I think I have been without focus for too long ;) :p

A majority of people on here have no idea who they are "talking" to, therefore will have no idea how these people manage their horses, ride their horsese, their results, etc etc. The only "evidence" is through what people "know" from what is posted, which obviously can be a very select view ;)

However, increasingly we see people following "trends", training methods etc suggested from people on here, with no idea whether they are worth following as the person posting it could use these methods etc, yet have a load of good for nothing donkeys ( ;) ) or not practise what they preach, and so effectively preach something that may occur to them as a good idea.... but may not be in practise!

Therefore, do you follow advice or take ideas based on what appeals to your own common sense (I hope a majority of posters fit into this category), the "reputation" someone has built up on here, or just from people you genuinely "know" of (and I don't mean in the "i've spoken to them on Facebook AND HHO kind of know ;) :p )

Sorry that's a bit rambly and probably makes no sense. If anyone can make sense of it, and wishes to mull with me, feel free ;) :p
 
KatB said:
:ptake ideas based on what appeals to your own common sense
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This - I would have thought most people would, though I am old enough to know better. I do worry sometimes about how old some of those posting and taking advice are they come across as very naive and young, but I presume there is minimum age to sign up? :(
 
Well classing myself as high unpopular, but vocal :D

I think of late the forum has got a bit dull, but that's because everything has been cancelled and is a bit dull !!

Training methods are interesting, I have picked up a few tips, but there are also things I tried and didn't like

For example the draw reins over the back and through the legs had way to much movement on the mouth for my liking (as in the shoulder / leg movement connected to mouth too much). Possibly my horse are a different shape to TB's, however that just didn't work for me.
 
I know what you mean!

I like to think I wouldn't blindly follow any advice on here unless it made sense to me, or confirmed something I'd heard/read from another reliable source.

I tend to "weight" what people say depending upon their previous posts, so if someone who posts a lot of sense generally and seems to be knowledgeable suggested something I'd be more likely to follow it than if it was someone I didn't know at all or someone who hasn't posted enough about their riding/horse experience for me to form an opinion.

For example, if Kerilli or JanetGeorge posted something from her previous posts I'd be pretty happy to trust the advice, whereas say The Watcher or I am a cucumber mainly posts in Soapbox so I haven't a clue what he/she knows about horses so I'd be less inclined to take it at face value. On the otherhand some posters are obviously novices so I'd certainly take any advice with a pinch of salt!
 
I tend to agree with you there Kat B, I "know" 2 people on here, therefore I take what they suggest seriously :) I lurk more than post in here as I don't feel I should post on most things, unless I am confident on the subject or have had experience in that area. I read a lot of posts and there are lots of people on here that seem to do things in a similar way or have similar ideas to me, I learn a LOT from these people's posts :)

I was going to write a thread thanking HHO, you actually and Supernova, plus some others, I read a thread where you had suggested to ride to a point, not to a fence and I found Supernova's thread yesterday very inspirational. I have a young (ish), talented horse but I find him incredibly difficult and have been struggling, unfortunately I cannot afford as many lessons as I would like :( today he has been an absolute star, I jumped using your advice and some PMA, stopped analysing everything and just bloody rode. AMAZING response, I will, from now on be riding like this :D

My results are not that hot but there are reasons for this, which unfortunately the internet does not explain ;) my training systems however, work and hopefully the results will follow :)

I take most things on here with a pinch of salt, because as you have pointed out, you cannot tell if said person has the knowledge to comment or actually does this BUT I have learned and will continue to learn lots from here :)
 
I'd listen to those who I kind of 'respect' because of what they've done (like yourself, Baydale, Kerilli, PrincessSparkle, Gamebird etc) but obviously if you suddenly all started harping on about using, say drawreins, to help with Wilby's wayward jumping technique then I wouldn't go out and try it because I know it wouldn't help! So a mixture of common sense and trusting someone's reputation a bit.

Then again, I'd still have a think about whatever anyone said as a way to improve my horse's way of going and my riding, mostly because I'm rubbish and need the help :p
 
Jen_Cots said:
For example the draw reins over the back and through the legs had way to much movement on the mouth for my liking (as in the shoulder / leg movement connected to mouth too much). Possibly my horse are a different shape to TB's, however that just didn't work for me.
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I have a few that are all very different types, and I do not like the action of it either. Everything from the show ponies to the event pony to the hunters it had far too much movement - each horse only was worked once like that. It was recommend by a lady who has a small private yard nearby.

Having not been here long I can't comment about popularity but having read some posts there certainly appears to be a hierarchy.
 
OneInAMillion said:
I agree with what you have said, but there are some people who you know are experienced in whatever discipline they do so I only tend to follow what they say! ;)
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Ah, but how do you "know" those people are experienced in disciplines? Because of the level they've competed at? I know people who have competed at "decent" levels, but still wouldn't take their advise as I know most of the work has been done by their trainer/support team/the person they paid ££ for the horse to ;) :p yet on here they would come about as being "successful competitiors". :p :D

I am playing devils advocate a bit... but you can see my point?
 
KatB said:
Ah, but how do you "know" those people are experienced in disciplines? Because of the level they've competed at? I know people who have competed at "decent" levels, but still wouldn't take their advise as I know most of the work has been done by their trainer/support team/the person they paid ££ for the horse to ;) :p yet on here they would come about as being "successful competitiors". :p :D

I am playing devils advocate a bit... but you can see my point?
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Ah but personally I don't assess how worthwhile someone's advice is likely to be based purely on the competitive results they say they have acheived. The same as instructors, just because they have a certain level of qualification doesn't mean they are necessarily good, or are better than another with less qualifications!

I base it on what they actually say in their posts, whether it is well thought out and sensible, whether they have previously made good recommendations and whether it seems to tally with received wisdom. That is why I flagged Kerrilli as being someone who I would tend to listen to, she has made some very well thought out well explained posts in the past that make sense. I believe she has also competed to a decent level but that is kind of irrelevant. It is the well thought out logical explanations that clinch it.
 
Just because someone is young dosent mean that they don't know what they are talking about :)

eg. I am 20 but working towards A test pony club :) IHowever, I try to only post on things I might know about :) it's only my experience really, but you can't be experienced without trying ;)
i generally look at suggestions and add the good uns to my knowlegde bank, might never use any Of them but it's good to have other ways of solving a problem :)
 
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KristmasKatt said:
I base it on what they actually say in their posts, whether it is well thought out and sensible, whether they have previously made good recommendations and whether it seems to tally with received wisdom. That is why I flagged Kerrilli as being someone who I would tend to listen to, she has made some very well thought out well explained posts in the past that make sense. I believe she has also competed to a decent level but that is kind of irrelevant. It is the well thought out logical explanations that clinch it.
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Ditto this ^^^^^ well put :)
 
I make an overall judgement based on their answers to many and varied questions over the years on here, I guess. There are a few posters I absolutely sit up and listen to, and am totally prepared to adjust my own opinions in light of what they say (TarrSteps, Baydale, TableDancer would be the first 3 I can think of in that category, there are others too). I also base it on what I know of their previous experience though, it can't all be theoretical. Okay, I have no 'proof' that TarrSteps has done what she said (unlike Baydale and TD, whose results were in the U.K. so are more checkable) BUT from talking to her I'm pretty sure she didn't spend her time in Canada working a checkout... ;) ;) ;)
Generally speaking you can work out if someone's genuinely experienced or a delusional bull*****er... ;) ;)
Going on your last point, Kat, I totally agree with you that just being impressed by the level they've competed at doesn't work, it's not a reliable indicator of experience or competence, or at least only if they produced the horse(s) to that level themselves.
edited to add: thanks guys, if anyone else can learn a bit here and there from my years of bitter experience and stupid mistakes, great! ;) ;) ;)
 
emmyc said:
I tend to agree with you there Kat B, I "know" 2 people on here, therefore I take what they suggest seriously :) I lurk more than post in here as I don't feel I should post on most things, unless I am confident on the subject or have had experience in that area. I read a lot of posts and there are lots of people on here that seem to do things in a similar way or have similar ideas to me, I learn a LOT from these people's posts :)

I was going to write a thread thanking HHO, you actually and Supernova, plus some others, I read a thread where you had suggested to ride to a point, not to a fence and I found Supernova's thread yesterday very inspirational. I have a young (ish), talented horse but I find him incredibly difficult and have been struggling, unfortunately I cannot afford as many lessons as I would like :( today he has been an absolute star, I jumped using your advice and some PMA, stopped analysing everything and just bloody rode. AMAZING response, I will, from now on be riding like this :D

My results are not that hot but there are reasons for this, which unfortunately the internet does not explain ;) my training systems however, work and hopefully the results will follow :)

I take most things on here with a pinch of salt, because as you have pointed out, you cannot tell if said person has the knowledge to comment or actually does this BUT I have learned and will continue to learn lots from here :)
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And I think this is what the forum is about! Pleased it's been of help to you, and I am the first to admit that sometimes the forum has given me idea's and direction which I may not have had otherwise.

I am the first to admit most of what I post is 2nd or 3rd hand, and comes from those much more knowledgeable than myself. However, I won't post something unless I have tried it and find it helps, or it's come from something I have witnessed working (as obviously what works for one, won't always work for another person!) I am a bit of a sponge, and pick up a lot from watching and learning and like to pass this on!

I think there are people who get sucked into "methods" and like the ideas behind it, so "preach" it, yet never truly find it works themselves... and they're the people I think I am referring to.
 
only_me said:
Just because someone is young dosent mean that they don't know what they are talking about :)

eg. I am 20 but working towards A test pony club :) I have also ridden lots of problem
horses. However, I only post on things I might know about :) it's only my experience really, but you can't be experienced without trying ;)

i generally look at suggestions and add the good uns to my knowlegde bank, might never use any Of them but it's good to have other ways of solving a problem :)
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Not sure if you are referring to my post, if you are I would not class 20 as young (though much younger than me ;)) in the respect I meant it and clearly if you are working towards A test you are not naive and old enough to make an informed decision. Just wanted to clear that up so as not to offend :)
 
Jen_Cots said:
Training methods are interesting, I have picked up a few tips, but there are also things I tried and didn't like

For example the draw reins over the back and through the legs had way to much movement on the mouth for my liking (as in the shoulder / leg movement connected to mouth too much). Possibly my horse are a different shape to TB's, however that just didn't work for me.
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I really should do an update post and pic, because I attach it to loops on the lungeing cavesson now, so no movement on the mouth at all.
I don't think it's for everyone, or every horse, but compared to many of the gadgets out there I do at least think that, as long as fitted loose, it is kinder and non-restricting.
Anyway, Laura Bechtolsheimer uses it, and she gets good results here and there, you know... ;) ;)
 
something i have never really thought about to be honest - I guess i dont really ask for that much advise as can do most things on my own !!

I do like reading what certain people have to say on other threads though some are hilarious
 
If I receive any advise from anyone on this forum, or any other forum, I have a responsibility to myself and my horse (or my doggy), to go away and thoroughly investigate what is being suggested. Only once I have formed a general opinion from lots of different sources will I even begin to attempt any method of training or schooling. I would never take the word of a complete stranger but am more than happy to take their opinons on board :)
 
I do take notice of the more popular users, and the ones that have been here since I joined, as I am familiar with them and am aware of the stuff they have posted about.

I wouldn't take advice without thinking about it first though when it comes to horsey stuff, regardless of who they are. I have had too many paid instructors that I should have questioned more, so learnt my lesson there.

I need help from wherever I can get it tbh, although time and funds (and general poor organisation) has meant that I have had one jumping and one flatwork lesson this year, so really need to work on that myself :eek: :)
 
KatB said:
Ah, but how do you "know" those people are experienced in disciplines? Because of the level they've competed at? I know people who have competed at "decent" levels, but still wouldn't take their advise as I know most of the work has been done by their trainer/support team/the person they paid ££ for the horse to ;) :p yet on here they would come about as being "successful competitiors". :p :D

I am playing devils advocate a bit... but you can see my point?
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Yep I agree with your point entirely, I mainly based that on Kerilli for her eventing exp. and from reading what she write's she is obviously experienced and yes HalfStep and TarrSteps I also take on board their views but I was trying to make my point about people who have never actually done half the stuff the say they have! I didn't word it rightly though!
 
To be honest I prefer to read people's competition reports and what people have been doing on their horses rather than someones possible bullsh** idea on what I should be doing with my horses.

I rarely go through 'advice' posts as like you say, how do you know what experience these people actually have. I know that not many would be able to ride my horses (even the 23 year old cob) so I'm certainly not going to take advice from them on anything.

I feel sorry for people who ask about something their horse is doing and the replies are get 'back and teeth checked', when the poster clearly states they have been done. I call them the 'back sack and crack' crew..

My instructor D_K knows my horse perfectly - even his quirks and he trains me accordingly.

I don't compete affiliated at anything which is through choice. I would rather spend my money and go out every week through summer rather than once a month. I like to think I can dabble in most disciplines and we do come home with some good results.
 
kerilli said:
I really should do an update post and pic, because I attach it to loops on the lungeing cavesson now, so no movement on the mouth at all.
I don't think it's for everyone, or every horse, but compared to many of the gadgets out there I do at least think that, as long as fitted loose, it is kinder and non-restricting.
Anyway, Laura Bechtolsheimer uses it, and she gets good results here and there, you know... ;) ;)
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^^ as an aside would be good if you could do an update on this. i've been using it and my horse goes REALLY well. he hates the pessoa and a lot of other lungeing 'aids'- this is the only one that i've found that encourages him to stretch over his back properly...

with regards to KatB's original post i think its a good point! when i ask for help on here i read all of the replies and then see what makes sense to me and then i try it and see what happens. there are some posters whose advice has been really really helpful in the past (PrincessSparkle, Kerilli, yourself Kat spring to mind but sure there are others i've forgotton- sorry :o ) so i tend to read these posts more carefully and try their ideas first. there are also some people who i just ignore- especially in NL- i don't tend to post "help" type posts in there for a reason....
Do you not think that liveery yards are similar though? you have a lot of people dishing out advice when they don't know what they are on about? i know its easier to check their abilities in real life- but you still get less experienced people on the yard lapping up everything they say... i guess knowing what to try and what is rubbish only comes with a bit of trial and error and your own experience really- both on the forum and in RL... :)
 
Have to say, i love it when you post a comp report/vids/pics, and the experienced lot on here give you feedback, the likes of kerilli, princessparkle, etc. For someone like me (younger than the majority of people on here) when they say "youve done really well, i can see a massive improvement" or "that was a lovely round" or simular, it does make you feel like youre doing well, or when they give you something that needs working on, its great!

I hope that most people on here know im a bit younger, so if they want to.. can take what i say with a pinch of salt. I try to only comment on things where i have some idea what im talking about! :rolleyes:
 
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In a similar vein what happened to 'A Lesson With.....'? Did that happen or not, as it all seemed to have gone quiet, or was it on another website that you had to pay to join?

I can't think of any user whose advice I would take on riding, I prefer to have lessons with someone stood in front of me and my horse who can see what is really going on. Otherwise you would have me misexplaining it, and them not being able to get their point across clearly.

I have taken advice from people regarding horse care, what product to buy, what event to enter etc, but I think how you ride is irrelevant when it comes to how you look after or dress your horse up.
 
Interesting thread. For riding/flatwork advice I would respect some members more than others, either because I know them and they have similar training ethics, or through their consistent, knowledgable posts due to extensive experience. A few big ups to FrodoBeutlin, Tempi, Halfstep, TarrSteps and Kerilli lol. Saying that sometimes the odd infrequent poster or new member has interesting points. For me it does help to have seen evidence of their skills and not just be full of textbook knowledge as anyone can do that.

As for general advice (like my hay post recently) I am interested to hear what everyone thinks as there are often many acceptable solutions to one problem. I wouldn't like to bring up a problem with a YO before considering various opinions and evidence on the situation.
 
I think its pretty easy to figure out who knows what they are talking about, or not. Some bits of "advice" that are given at times make me go :eek::eek::eek:, but like most things with horses, everyone has their opinions and ideas, and what works for one may not work for another. For dressage, I find that having a knowledge of theory helps a lot, but it is important to remember that horses tend not to read books! :D

Actually, probably worth adding: I find I'm a lot more likely not to bother answering advice posts these days, because I feel that I spend time thinking and typing out some ideas or advice, and it doesn't even warrant a "thank you". So increasingly I don't bother. Unless something really gets on my wick!
 
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I like the 'could try this', 'could try that' sort of answers to other people's questions where they are having enormous problems with a horse/situation and the answers given are often things I have never even thought of.

Certainly in schooling, jumping, handling etc it doesn't harm to try new methods though I'm not an advocate of extra bits of tack! Just because someone is young or seemingly inexperienced, doesn't mean they don't have a good few tips to share!

I've certainly followed people's advice on here about feed stuffs.... had some great tips there.

Yes, there are people on here who are very knowledgeable in their field (scuse the pun!) especially around the competition environment, so lots of good info gleaned from them too.

So all in all, I love this forum for all the useful snippets of info that make the horsey world a merrier place!

Happy Christmas! ;-)
 
I do what I always have done and that is ask questions and use what I think will work. There are things that make me laugh on this forum but then again there are at RC.
I have made some awesome friends through this forum and that for me will always make this forum worthwhile even if what is being spouted is a load of tripe.
The forum always goes through lulls and people come and go. That is what makes it interesting.
 
I think it can be hilarious and frustrating in equal measure. I have been shouted down and told I have no idea and I've come over all apologetic & questioned my own methods a few times. Then 6 months later those self same posters have put some pics up of their own horses/riding, & I've had to smack myself around the head for being so gullible.

I dislike the way I can be influenced and how, whilst it's a good idea to be open to new ideas, you can be made to really question the tried and tested ways you do things. It has made me less effective on occasion.

It's taken me ages to realise that people can be so dishonest and delusional and that I have to really take all opinion and advice with a big pinch of salt (sounds self evident I know but those who shout loudest really can be the most clueless)

I also find the puritanical approah adopted by many people is at odds with what is practical and proven. My local super successful competition riders will stick a pair of draw reins on a horse without a thought. Compared to attitudes on here that that is akin to horse abuse makes you realise how far from reality the forum can drift on ocassion.
 
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