Hi, and a little help - ouch!

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Tancho

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Hello all,
I've been a bit of a lurker on here for a while now, but today I've decided to join in properly because I need some advice.
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I've had my current mare who is a 14 year old cob approximately 2 months now.* She is an absolute darling and a dream, she doesn't barge, is patient, is rock solid on hacks etc etc.
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HOWEVER....
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The last week or so she has started to show some concerning behaviour, in the form of biting!
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The first time she did it I was messing around with one of her front legs rubbing pig oil into the feather when she turned, looked at me and made a half hearted swipe at my head.* I was really shocked and didn't know what to do to be honest, I kind of shouted but that was all, kind of shrugged it off as me hitting a sore spot but couldn't see anything amiss on the surface but noted it.* Then the second time I was picking out her front hoof (opposite side this time) when she bit me on the bum.* This caused me to do some research, and came across the advice to shout, pinch with finger tips and use a three second rule before going back to normal.
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Armed with this advice I was all ready (so I thought) for round 3, but she's been golden for the past few days.* Every time she sees me arrive she neighs and comes over, acts as normal.* Until today of course..* Today she bit me, with what I can only describe as all venom, on my boob as I was walking up to untie her to go back to the field!!* She definitely knew I was there as had been there a couple of minutes chatting away as I do.* This time I screeched, pinched her neck and she backed up straight away.* Up until this point everything had been lovely and she had been as well behaved as ever.* I took her back to the field and I usually stay for a few minutes talking to her and give her scratches, but I was so shaken and upset I basically chucked her in, locked the gate and walked away.* As I was walking away she started neighing to me, pawing the gate and* basically stayed there the whole entire time - I saw her as I was driving off still standing there (normally she'd be well gone to join the others).* It made me feel really awful, like the evil step mom, and it probably sounds ridiculous but it made me cry.
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I can't see a pattern to why she bites me (ie pain), I could have said perhaps pain in the feet as I had been working with them or around them previously, but today I wasn't actually doing anything.* She can't have had an anticipation of pain either I don't think (but I could be wrong) as we don't have the exact routine every day (ie the pig oil I don't put on every day and I don't over do any work with the feather so that they don't get damaged etc).* I don't know if she's trying to take the mick and I don't know if what I'm doing is the right thing so I would be very grateful of some advice as a novice.* I am desperately trying to do the right thing by her and I don't want to hurt her, but at the same time I don't want to be walked all over either.* Likewise if there is a medical reason that might spring up any ideas then I am open to all suggestions.

She lives out 24/7 and nothing has changed in terms of feed, general routine etc.
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Thanks in advance all, sorry for the long post and I hope I don't sound like an idiot :(
 
She needs to know that biting is NOT good! If she did it to another horse who was more dominant, she was get a bite back! You need to be really firm with her. She is pushing boundaries, working out what she can get away with. There does not seem to be pain involved. My five year old occassionly tries out his teeth, he gets a good hard slap. He gets the message.
 
Hmm this is definitely something to nip in the bud (excuse the pun) right away. To be honest I'm not sure how I would go about dealing with this, though I would immediately and seriously reprimand a horse that full on bit me. Having said that it does seem odd that she has started doing it out of the blue. I do know a lady whose horse suddenly started biting and she turned out to have a very serious UTI that was causing her pain, so it could be something like that or it could just be that the horse is testing you to see what's what! I'm sure others on here will have some helpful advice but I hope that you can sort it out.
 
I won't tolerate being bitten, I'd have given a good wallop too. For nippy youngster behaviour I use the "ooh you've just made contact with my elbow" technique but for a much older horse they should know better and deserve IMO a more direct approach.
 
She is testing you. You're doing fine in everything you've done. I hear the other posters above being surprised by you pinching her, and I have to agree I'm afraid. Biting or kicking a human ... these are two things a horse can do which will always be met with a smack from me.
 
Do you feed her treats from your hand at all? My cob will get very pushy and try to nip if he is hand fed at all, he was a real pain when he first arrived and I had to be quite hard on him a few times, a firm smack and very aggressive body language to get him to back away, but he learned in no time and is fine now as long as he doesn't get treats.
 
I very rarely need to tell my mare off, she is very sensitive, but the one and only time she bit me she got a damn good slapping and chased around the stable. She looked at me like I was trying to kill her but she's never even thought about it since. Time to get tough!!
 
Agree I'd clobber her for that... Biting is unacceptable... Pinching is what horses call ' grooming ' and won't be negative for her at all... I'd also growl and use negative body language but biting is different to nimbly grooming type thing it is BAD and dangerous.
 
It is very difficult to tell what is going on here, without being able to see what is happening. Have you discussed this with your YO/experienced friend?
Horses do push boundaries with new owners but they also tell us when they are in pain.

I am definitely not anti-treat but have you given her treats? Could she have been complaining that you were being too slow with the treats that she felt she deserved? If so, I would severely reprimand and make sure that she knew never to do that again!
You say that nothing has changed since you got her but have you changed her diet from that with her previous owner? Some feedstuffs make horses feel on edge, or very sensitive to being touched.
 
Stand up tall, glare, growl and a swift hard elbow, all at once! Don't use the flat of your hand - it will hurt you more than her!
 
My gelding has bitten me (badly I may add) 3 times in 8 years, I have to say my reaction was much much harsher than a pinch, it involved a whip and a fist, his reason I am fairly sure was dominance, I have to be firm but fair with him, consistency is the key and he is better the more work he has. Apart from the 3 bites he hasn't bitten at any other time and the 3 occasions were each a couple of years apart. Firm but fair I think is the answer, make sure she knows who is the leader.
 
I'm with the others, it sounds like she's testing boundaries. Biting is something I'd never tolerate. On the few occasions H has tried it on I've growled at him, given him a good wallop and walked off giving him not a moments more attention. If you give her treats I'd also stop as it always made H worse.
 
Hi all,
Firstly, wow to the many replies! Even if I haven't been quite on the path it makes me feel better that harsh is better. To be honest I was so gobsmacked today that I kind of couldn't quite believe what was happening and could have definitely done more. In retrospect I was impressed at the volume of noise that issued from my throat though. Tomorrow one of the ladies that used to look after her on her old yard is over so I'm going to have a chat with her.
Oh and she doesn't get treats either.
Am I right along the path of just a few seconds to be reactive and then return to normal? Other than being scary/growling/slapping is there any other effective body language I should be showing? Should I be pushing her out of my way? In her face etc?
Thank you so much to all that have replied! :)
 
Tancho said:
Hi all,
Firstly, wow to the many replies! Even if I haven't been quite on the path it makes me feel better that harsh is better. To be honest I was so gobsmacked today that I kind of couldn't quite believe what was happening and could have definitely done more. In retrospect I was impressed at the volume of noise that issued from my throat though. Tomorrow one of the ladies that used to look after her on her old yard is over so I'm going to have a chat with her.
Oh and she doesn't get treats either.
Am I right along the path of just a few seconds to be reactive and then return to normal? Other than being scary/growling/slapping is there any other effective body language I should be showing? Should I be pushing her out of my way? In her face etc?
Thank you so much to all that have replied! :)
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The previous handler could be a good opportunity to hear about how the horse was with her, and perhaps she can watch you to see if she spots something immediately that you may be doing that is detrimental to your relationship with the horse. I am not a big smacker of horses; I'm actually very laid back with my horses but that is because I have taught them clearly and they know I expect good manners, thus they are very well behaved. I make it as clear and easy as possible for the horse to be 'good' and I set horses up to pass, not fail. Smacking is not something I tend to do with my horses, but as said above, if a horse tries to bite or kick me, they will be thumped. A few seconds breather. And then we move on.
 
Spring Feather said:
The previous handler could be a good opportunity to hear about how the horse was with her, and perhaps she can watch you to see if she spots something immediately that you may be doing that is detrimental to your relationship with the horse. I am not a big smacker of horses; I'm actually very laid back with my horses but that is because I have taught them clearly and they know I expect good manners, thus they are very well behaved. I make it as clear and easy as possible for the horse to be 'good' and I set horses up to pass, not fail. Smacking is not something I tend to do with my horses, but as said above, if a horse tries to bite or kick me, they will be thumped. A few seconds breather. And then we move on.
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^^^ This.

A friend of mine has a 6 year old that has started to bite - and nastily at that. For some reason its about the only time that she won't give him a smack. She's quite happy to smack his bum if he misbehaves while being ridden, but on the ground - he walks all over her. He can be a pushy sort and tries to dominate new people, who generally do give him a wallop for biting as that is his welcome to newbies. Once he's had a thump from someone though, he very, very rarely goes back for a second attempt at biting. But my friend is covered in bruises, he know's she won't discipline him for biting so he just goes for it! Bad boy :(
 
i'm new to this forum and i can see that you've had heaps of advice from other members so probably don't need mine but my husband bought a Spanish horse 3 years ago and for the first 4 months he was as yours was, respectful and a joy to ride etc then one day he nipped me while i was rugging him and i was so surprised i just sort of squeaked and yelled at him, then he started doing it more and more and to other people and lastly to my husband who i know he adores and he gave him such a smack across the chops he went to the corner of his stable and was clearly upset. neither of us believe in harsh treatment but horses are big animals and if you have ruled out pain being the reason you are probably left with dominance and lack of respect for you. our horse tried it a few more times and got a smack and then chased off and he is 90% better now with just the odd half hearted nip, a horse trainer suggested a glove with pins in it and then a quick smack on the nose without making direct eye contact. sort of sneaky and carry on with what you were doing while the horse is all outraged wondering where that came from, i can see the logic in it actually but i didn't try it , perhaps someone here has. best of luck tho , your horse sounds otherwise lovely.
 
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