Hillside Animal Sanctuary?

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FlaxenPony05

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A local city farm have just made a statement saying that they due to loss of land, they cannot keep their two very tame cows. These cows don't have relevant permits to be moved from the farm as they were never registered when they first arrived at the farm (it was in different hands back then), so there is a petition for Defra to grant them an exemption so they can be moved to Hillside Animal Sanctuary. If this falls through, the cows would have to be euthanized at the farm. Here's the link to the article- http://stepneycityfarm.org/news-blog/ What I'm really trying to get at is that I've heard good and bad about Hillside, and although on one hand I'm tempted to sign the petition as they are both lovely cows and deserve a good life, but on the other hand- what's this place like? The website says that Hillside has over 2000 animals- surely this is overstocked? I wouldn't want these two to be going to some hellhole when actually they could peacefully be pts at the place that they've lived happily at for 4 years. Thoughts?
 
IMHO moving them to a "rescue" that already can't cope with the animals it has and is constantly asking for help with food would be irresponsible and it would be far better to pts where they are now.
 
Sorry but this seems to be a total over reaction. They can surely register the cows with Defra, they must have a small holding number, Once they have the cows registered then they can get a transport licence. I do not agree these animals should be subject to an exemption. The law has been in place for far longer than 4 years, so they must have arrived with papers, all seems very odd, and overly dramatic.
 
I know nothing about Hillside so cannot answer your query. What I do know, from living in London (including 20 years working in Stepney), is that large cities are vast spaces of concrete, brick and metal. The millions of people living and working there are just about as remote as any human could ever be from seeing/touching a real live farm animal.
These city farms perform an absolutely valuable and, I reckon, essential function, in enabling children to see real animals, to equate the food they eat to real animals, to realise why the nation needs real animals and real countryside. These city farms are not animal sanctuaries but are providing an absolutely crucial and essential part of whole-life education to future generations of children. They deserve every possible support from all sides to keep their operations in business. Otherwise, future generations (the majority of our population lives in cities) will be totally divorced from understanding the workings of/need for the countryside, the farming, the animals, the natural environment and all those other wonderful attributes.
Add into that the marvellous opportunities which being-with-animals provides for any child or adult with difficulties (autism, etc) and how such opportunities help the child or adult further their own development and confidence, and yes the city farms perform an absolutely vital task.
If I were Stepney City Farm, I'd be getting onto Boris Johnson and the London television news programmes, not necessarily to move the cattle to Hillside but to get the cattle their paperwork so that they can be moved somewhere.
If that's not possible, then probably no choice but to have the cattle pts. In which case make an equally big noise about this is what happens to cattle. Aren't beef cattle slaughtered by the age of 30 months to enter the human food chain? So, sad as it is for the cattle, use it to educate the local visiting public on the life of farm animals.
 
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2000!!! at an animal CHARITY that were appealing for EXTRA funds /donations of hay etc. last spring?! i cannot see how they are possibly going to sufficiently care for over 200 let alone over 2000 +2...

for these particular cows if they are not very old i would be trying to find an ACTUAL farm for them (or if this fails pts)

i'm not saying that hillside is a hellhole..but over 2000..somebody needs to intervene..imagine if they had an outbreak of disease...?

personally i think the organizers of hillside need to get a grip and start re-homing
 
Having now read the article I think it was a very sensible decision to have Lloyd and Leila culled. What a shame that they have decided to go back on this. If they wish to carry on with their education of the public perhps it would be sensible to get together with a leather worker who is skilled with fresh hides and have him make an exhibit of the animals' skins.
 
Well firstly I can't understand why the cows aren't registered. Very dodgy if you ask me. Have they had regular TB tests (which are required by law!) then?

Secondly, Hillside is absolutely shocking and I could tell you some real horror stories about it. So honestly I think these cows would be better of either being PTS where they are or finding another home altogether. If they are tame then perhaps a petting farm or small holding?
 
Suechoccy said:
I know nothing about Hillside so cannot answer your query. What I do know, from living in London (including 20 years working in Stepney), is that large cities are vast spaces of concrete, brick and metal. The millions of people living and working there are just about as remote as any human could ever be from seeing/touching a real live farm animal.
These city farms perform an absolutely valuable and, I reckon, essential function, in enabling children to see real animals, to equate the food they eat to real animals, to realise why the nation needs real animals and real countryside. These city farms are not animal sanctuaries but are providing an absolutely crucial and essential part of whole-life education to future generations of children. They deserve every possible support from all sides to keep their operations in business. Otherwise, future generations (the majority of our population lives in cities) will be totally divorced from understanding the workings of/need for the countryside, the farming, the animals, the natural environment and all those other wonderful attributes.
Add into that the marvellous opportunities which being-with-animals provides for any child or adult with difficulties (autism, etc) and how such opportunities help the child or adult further their own development and confidence, and yes the city farms perform an absolutely vital task.
If I were Stepney City Farm, I'd be getting onto Boris Johnson and the London television news programmes, not necessarily to move the cattle to Hillside but to get the cattle their paperwork so that they can be moved somewhere.
If that's not possible, then probably no choice but to have the cattle pts. In which case make an equally big noise about this is what happens to cattle. Aren't beef cattle slaughtered by the age of 30 months to enter the human food chain? So, sad as it is for the cattle, use it to educate the local visiting public on the life of farm animals.
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I absolutely agree with you. As a volunteer at the farm last year, I witnessed the change that the farm had in the locals- it gave local people a chance of learning about farming that they wouldn't have got otherwise. The larger animals, especially the cows, are particularly popular. Unfortunately, Crossrail took over a third of the farm's land a couple of years ago, and there is literally not ethical to keep the two cows in such a small space all the time. I have posted your suggesting on trying to get it to the mayor/onto the news onto the FB link. It's a great idea, thank you.
 
Amy& said:
Well firstly I can't understand why the cows aren't registered. Very dodgy if you ask me. Have they had regular TB tests (which are required by law!) then?
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'However, there was a problem with Lloyd and Leila. They had not been registered at birth by the previous management, Stepping Stones Farm and did not have “cow passports”. Following the BSE crisis, the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs introduced strict regulations governing the registration and movement of cows.

All cows have to be registered immediately at birth and they may only be issued with a passport if this has been done.

As Lloyd and Leila were not registered by Stepping Stones Farm and do not have cow passports, DEFRA regulations stipulate that they can never leave the Farm and can never enter the food chain.'

TBH I don't know the answer to your question. The above was taken off the statement on the website.
 
Suechoccy said:
I know nothing about Hillside so cannot answer your query. What I do know, from living in London (including 20 years working in Stepney), is that large cities are vast spaces of concrete, brick and metal. The millions of people living and working there are just about as remote as any human could ever be from seeing/touching a real live farm animal.
These city farms perform an absolutely valuable and, I reckon, essential function, in enabling children to see real animals, to equate the food they eat to real animals, to realise why the nation needs real animals and real countryside. These city farms are not animal sanctuaries but are providing an absolutely crucial and essential part of whole-life education to future generations of children. They deserve every possible support from all sides to keep their operations in business. Otherwise, future generations (the majority of our population lives in cities) will be totally divorced from understanding the workings of/need for the countryside, the farming, the animals, the natural environment and all those other wonderful attributes.
Add into that the marvellous opportunities which being-with-animals provides for any child or adult with difficulties (autism, etc) and how such opportunities help the child or adult further their own development and confidence, and yes the city farms perform an absolutely vital task.
If I were Stepney City Farm, I'd be getting onto Boris Johnson and the London television news programmes, not necessarily to move the cattle to Hillside but to get the cattle their paperwork so that they can be moved somewhere.
If that's not possible, then probably no choice but to have the cattle pts. In which case make an equally big noise about this is what happens to cattle. Aren't beef cattle slaughtered by the age of 30 months to enter the human food chain? So, sad as it is for the cattle, use it to educate the local visiting public on the life of farm animals.
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I agree with so much of what is said here, and the whole ethos of the City Farms being to educate how food is, and should be produced, is admirable. I just don't actually think Hillside are singing from the same hymn sheet :( For example, I think it is wonderful that the city farm is showing what happens to animals, they are bred for meat, not to make the fields look pretty, and also that quality of life, and quality of death is important. To the extent that they fattened and cooked six geese for Michaelmas, with a ticketed meal, where everything was produced and grown on the farm. All part of the education process. I think Hillside would have been wanting to 'rescue' the geese and add them to the other 2000 (!) animals at their 'sanctuary'. I think that Defra is right, and that they HAVE to be very strict about movement regulations - no exceptions. They are there to try and prevent spread of disease, and quite rightly so. Who can forget the horrific sights of F&M, and how it affected so many farming families, forever. God forbid we should ever see anything like that again :( If two cows have to be culled because someone, somewhere didn't get the right paperwork, well, sadly, so be it :(
 
FlaxenPony05 said:
'However, there was a problem with Lloyd and Leila. They had not been registered at birth by the previous management, Stepping Stones Farm and did not have “cow passports”. Following the BSE crisis, the Department for Environment, Food & Rural Affairs introduced strict regulations governing the registration and movement of cows.

All cows have to be registered immediately at birth and they may only be issued with a passport if this has been done.

As Lloyd and Leila were not registered by Stepping Stones Farm and do not have cow passports, DEFRA regulations stipulate that they can never leave the Farm and can never enter the food chain.'

TBH I don't know the answer to your question. The above was taken off the statement on the website.
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Yes I read that but it seems they have had the cows for years and only now that they need to move them they are thinking of registering them. Why did they not do it as soon as they took over? Also the statement also said the cows hadn't been TB tested because they don't have the 'resources'. I'm not sure what they mean by that as all you need to do is phone the vet and he will come and do it. It is a simple skin test and requires 2 vet visits. It is also free as it is a government funded scheme so wouldn't cost them anything. I'm going to look into this as I was under the impression it is a legal requirement for all cattle to be tested yearly.
 
They are a crossbred Bull and his sister, I very much doubt anyone is going to offer a home to an entire. A farmer would not be allowed to move an animal and the law shouldn't be bent in this case. Anyone, with any sort of farm would/should know the law regarding animal passporting.
They should be slaughtered, they could be carrying TB, and the bull is a health risk in his own right, they were downright irresponsible keeping a bull on a city farm anyway.
 
jrp204 said:
They are a crossbred Bull and his sister, I very much doubt anyone is going to offer a home to an entire. A farmer would not be allowed to move an animal and the law shouldn't be bent in this case. Anyone, with any sort of farm would/should know the law regarding animal passporting.
They should be slaughtered, they could be carrying TB, and the bull is a health risk in his own right, they were downright irresponsible keeping a bull on a city farm anyway.
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He's not entire.
 
I do get the impression they have gone into this with the best intentions but not a lot of knowledge. DEFRA laws are strict but for a good reason. If they haven't ever bothered registered the animals and have them TB tested then why should defra make an exception for them? Kindest thing would be PTS.
 
Yep - they very responsibly took Lloyd's 'nads off, for safety reasons, plus he was getting a bit too fruity with his sister. :(
 
Bullet would be the best option, Farmers can't move stock without movement licences and passports/eartags, tb tests etc.. why should they? For what - two cattle.
 
What Hillside have also failed to mention is that they have in the past moved animals without a license and gotten into lots of trouble with defra as some of the animals were carrying infectious disease, they were supposedly 'rescuing' them but instead brought the disease to a new area and let it spread further, in turn resulting in more animals suffering and being PTS/dying. I believe they were fined quite a hefty amount but kept it all very quiet.
They are now making DEFRA out to be the bad guys for not letting them move these animals....
 
signing the petition would be a waste of anyone's time IMO, I'd put good money on them NOT bending the rules on this, I've only known it happen once after a lengthy hard fought court battle with real evidence of wrongdoing on their part. These cows weren't registered so they cant go anywhere except to slaughter. end of.
 
If the animals can be tested for all infectious diseases then why not make an exception for them? If not they should be put to sleep where they are. This is preferable to spreading disease to a herd.
 
Anglebracket said:
If the animals can be tested for all infectious diseases then why not make an exception for them? If not they should be put to sleep where they are. This is preferable to spreading disease to a herd.
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Why should they make exception for them? Its the law to have all cattle passported and eartagged. Its also the law to have them routinely TB tested, which obviously hasn't been done.
The cattle should be destroyed where they stand and incinerated. They cannot be taken to the slaughterhouse, because they do not have passports.
 
TheTrotter. said:
Why should they make exception for them? Its the law to have all cattle passported and eartagged. Its also the law to have them routinely TB tested, which obviously hasn't been done.
The cattle should be destroyed where they stand and incinerated. They cannot be taken to the slaughterhouse, because they do not have passports.
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Rules / regulations / laws are generally there for a good reason. Assuming that the law is there to prevent the spread of disease then I I don't see why an exception cannot be made assuming it can be guaranteed that the animals are disease free. Pragmatically Defra may not agree to avoid setting a precedent.
 
Anglebracket said:
Rules / regulations / laws are generally there for a good reason. Assuming that the law is there to prevent the spread of disease then I I don't see why an exception cannot be made assuming it can be guaranteed that the animals are disease free. Pragmatically Defra may not agree to avoid setting a precedent.
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Being an ex farmers wife, why the hell should DEFRA make an exception!! having myself gone through all the trials and tribulations of the last outbreak of foot and mouth it would be stupidity itself to do anything other than destroy and incinerate.
Why should people whose livelihoods depend on their livestock, who have up to date ear tags, passports, paperwork for their own beasts have to put up with lazya$$es who know the rules regarding holding numbers, ear tags etc have to suffer!!!
 
Anglebracket said:
Rules / regulations / laws are generally there for a good reason. Assuming that the law is there to prevent the spread of disease then I I don't see why an exception cannot be made assuming it can be guaranteed that the animals are disease free. Pragmatically Defra may not agree to avoid setting a precedent.
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They are there for a reason, and are not to be bent for one single person just because they couldn't be arsed to correctly eartag and passport cattle.

DEFRA wont agree to this, and Hillside are wasting their time and others, in making petitions. Its the law. I don't understand why people are failing to see that it is there for a reason?
 
TheTrotter. said:
They are there for a reason, and are not to be bent for one single person just because they couldn't be arsed to correctly eartag and passport cattle.

DEFRA wont agree to this, and Hillside are wasting their time and others, in making petitions. Its the law. I don't understand why people are failing to see that it is there for a reason?
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Cause common sense is not so common
 
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