Hip Dysplasure (sp?)

T

tamsinkb

Well-Known Member
Joined
21 August 2005
Messages
853
Location
North Devon
Visit site
My nearly 3 year old Working cocker has just been diagnosed with hip dysplasure - He went for x-rays two weeks ago and the vets coldn't find anything so sent the x-rays off for a second opinion, saying they'd get back to me in 2 days........anyhow, 2 weeks later and 3 phone calls later the vet calls me back to say that Bruce has mild hip dysplasure and some minor arthiritic changes in his hip joints. She then proceeds to tell me that for the next 4 weeks he must be lead walked for 20 mins twice a day, no hills or getting in or out of car...... ( All this after she told me 2 weeks ago that he needs to lose weight and that I should up his exercise - at which I explained that he is walked for 1 1/2 - 2 hours a day off lead and that I didn't actually have time to do much more on a daily basis!) Lead exercise - he's a spaniel FFS!

When I reminded her of her earlier advice and commented that Bruce has not shown any pain symptoms since the x-rays she said ' Oh! - not to worry then!'

So, other than finding another vet who will actually give me sensible advice, how would you suggest I manage Bruce's condition? I will be picking up some anti-inflammatories for him later.

Thanks in advance for your advice.
Tamsin
 
I would get a referral to a specialist orthopaedic vet and make sure you have the correct diagnosis. The specialist will also help with medication which you can use when he is having a difficult time. Swimming is a brilliant form of exercise for these types of conditions as it doesn't place strain on the joints but it's still good exercise and builds up muscle.
 
Hmm can't really comment on what your vets said but can offer advice on how we managed our Golden Retriever with very very bad HD.

I can't remember her scores but they were some of the worse that the vets had seen :( At the time they thought she would not get past the age of 7 due to pain etc. She lived to the age of 15 and uptill about a week before she got put to sleep she was still walking about two miles a day.

Her weight was always carefully managed- extra weight on poor joints can cause serious problems. We always kept her on the lean side (so you could feel every rib easily).
She was on a joint supplement from an early age. We now use cortaflex for dogs on our Spaniel and it seems to do the trick (she is 13 and has arthritus in her knee joint v. badly). I wouldn't use the flexi-joint chews as I think they are a bit of a gimic lol. Mainly looking for glucosamine, green lipid extract, cod liver oil. There are variations and other things but it works for ours- http://www.cortaflex.co.uk/proddetail.php?prod=cf009
Excercise is essential... They have to keep mobile so the joints are always moving..
The retrevier eventually went onto Metacam but in hindsight we should of managed it with more "natural" products such as devil claw. Metacam can cause problems with kidneys which the Retriever did suffer with in the end.

I honestly shouldn't worry that much. Watch jumping in and out of cars and anything that puts excess strain on his joints that can be avoided. Watch his weight, put him on a joint supplement and i'm sure you won't notice a thing till he gets to grand old age anyway!
 
Probably this country`s top orthopaedic referal vet Gary Clayton Jones is in Tenterden,so get refered to him if you are still worried. Dogs with hip scores of 30 even rarely go lame,so don`t worry too much:D
 
tamsinkb,

What made you seek the advice of a vet, in the first place? Was it obvious to you that your dog had a problem? Apart from the entirely adequate loose exercise, do you actually work (as in, shoot over) your dog? How is he bred?

Considering your exercise regime, I'd be staggered to hear that your dog was over weight, unless you know different! We hear so many experts telling us about feeling a dogs ribs, as a test. That's complete nonsense. You look at a dog's back, and providing that it "appears" to be fine, then by finger pressure, you test for muscle tone. Most would prefer to rely upon their "eye".

Back to the original question, if your dog didn't appear to be lame, then why the need for x/rays?

There are many tests for the severity of H/D, which can be done without x/rays. Accepting that working bred cockers seem to climb, just about anything(!), can he jump? Is he reasonably athletic? Has his standard of athleticism deteriorated? He's still young, and from what you say, it would surprise me if there was anything wrong, at all!! PM me, if you'd prefer that.

Alec.
 
My lad has HD, or so the rescue centre told me. I have never seen the x-rays etc and my vet can't find them (although they are the same practice used by the centre), but they said it was mild.

I give him a fish oil supplement once a day, whether it helps greatly or not I don't know but it doesn't do any harm and it gives him a shiny coat. I also make efforts to keep him fit, especially to keep his bum muscular to suppport his joints.

I was also told by a vet to keep him on a lead, not to play fetch, not to let him jump, when I asked for advice on how best to manage it:rolleyes:. But really, what life is that for a dog? So he goes off lead, he does play fetch sometimes and although I don't actively encourage him to jump I don't stop him either. I do actively encourage swimming when it's safe (at the moment the rivers are a bit too lively round here!).

The other thing I do is to make sure he is always dried off well when he's wet - he always gets towelled off then has a dog jumper stuck on him until he is dry, to get him dry more quickly and to keep him warm. I was told years ago that letting a dog get into bed wet was something that could give them arthritus when they get older. I don't know how scientific this is, but drying him off is no skin off my nose anyway and it keeps him more comfortable so it's worthwhile IMO.
 
Many thanks for all the replies so far.

alec - I took him to the vet in the first place as he was a bit stiff in his back end after all the snow and ice we'd had - originally thought he might have slipped and 'pulled' something, but they suggested x-rays. He is technically overweight but fit (if you know what I mean) He's a chunky sort and puts weight on just looking at food - but will go for hours across country with the horses, happy to jump and go through deep cover. I don't work him much as he is a bit gun shy. I have already changed his diet and he's gradualy losing weight. I have just got back from picking up the anti-inflammatories and had a sneaky look at this note - on which it says he has moderately severe bilateral hip dysplasure - not 'mild' as I was told over the phone!

I was thinking of looking in to hydrotherapy - any experiences andyone?

Thanks
Tamsin
 
Last edited:
If he is not showing any real signs of pain I wouldn't worry too much about long term pain relief, maybe just a short dose in case he has tweaked himself. His exercise regime sounds fine, you do need to keep him slim if his hips are poor, hydrotherapy is a great form of exercise. I cannot really see the point of lead walking for 4 weeks with bad hips, it makes me think the vet is suspecting he has tweaked something to give the stiffness, and the hd is a bit of a red herring. Spudlets advice is all good for keeping him fit, I agree that it is better for a dog to have a slightly shorter life than one of total restriction.
I would take issue with you Alec re testing the severity of hd. I had a bitch who scored in the high 90s, she ran, jumped , swam and never had a days lameness in her life (she lived until she was 13) and won classes on her movement as a veteran, yet I had been told by a specialist in HD that she would be off her legs by the time she was 2.
 
MurphysMinder said:
.......
I would take issue with you Alec re testing the severity of hd. I had a bitch who scored in the high 90s, she ran, jumped , swam and never had a days lameness in her life (she lived until she was 13) and won classes on her movement as a veteran, yet I had been told by a specialist in HD that she would be off her legs by the time she was 2.
Click to expand...

I would actually think, M_M, that you've rather proved my point!! I'm not a vet, and I'm hopeless at interpreting x/rays, but if your bitch was as active, mobile, and as athletic as she seems to have been, then the degree of severity, from the movement aspect, belied the "scores", which she'd achieved.

I haven't been seriously involved with gun dogs, for a good few years now, but when I was, then just about every Lab or Golden Retriever, when x/rayed, showed a degree of H/D. I also wasn't aware, at the time, of problems with elbows. It seems that even the experienced and knowledgable breeders aren't immune, from breed defects.

Another breed to be affected by this horrible affliction were GSDs, and 30 years ago there were some appalling cases, just as there were with the larger gun dog breeds. Over the last 10 years, or so, I've seen a refreshingly high number of GSDs with a real length of stride. Dogs, it would seem to me, which would be able to perform those tasks asked of so many, but previously. Is it just my imagination, or are we seeing a marked improvement?

Would you, or anyone else be able to offer an opinion, as to whether the problem is lessening, or not?

Regarding Tamsin's cocker, and again going back to many years ago, HD was unheard of in spaniels, to my knowledge, and I do understand the "fat" but active dog syndrome!! All to often it's when they've been castrated.

On the rare occasions when I am in a vet's surgery, I see displays of 28-30%+ protein feeds, and it staggers me, that as professionals, they can foist these "balanced"(!) feeds onto unsuspecting owners. I feel quite certain, that most of the joint problems, which we now see in dogs, are the direct result of high protein feeds, offered to the unsuspecting, by those who we should trust. Dogs, well most of them, are scavengers. They do better on low protein, particularly when they're growing.

There may well be many who disagree with me. It is not my intention to offend others, or tell them that they're wrong. These are just my views.

Alec.
 
Believe me Alec, her hips were atrocious, the femur head just rested against the socket, it was totally flat. This was actually nearly 30 years ago, her original x rays were pre scoring days, but out of interest we had them scored later. She also had tremendous length of stride, no one believed how bad her hips were. But more than likely had she been bred from she would have produced offspring with bad hips, and they could well have been seriously affected. Another pup of similar breeding was put down at 8 weeks because its hips were so bad it could hardly stand, ironically the breeder was giving it to me because of my disappointment with the other bitch. :(
You seemed to be implying that if a dog was athletic, could jump etc it did not have bad hips, I was pointing out this was not the case. However I do agree with you that there is an improvement in movement, and in hips overall. More and more responsible breeders are x raying and scoring and discarding stock with higher scores, I know how heart breaking this can be but it is the only way things are going to get better, I just with the KC would actually make low hip scores compulsory for all breeding stock, instead of their stupid "fit for purpose" nonsense, which apparently is going to involve a judge looking at Best of Breeds at Crufts and seeing if they are healthy. Obviously vets with x ray eyes in the case of hips.:mad: I have known of quite a few dogs with high hip scores, in nearly all the cases at the time of x raying they were showing no clinical signs, but in later life went on to do so.
Re Spaniels, have no real experience of the incidence of hd, my grandmother used to breed cockers but that was many moons ago, and I don't think hd was really known of in any breed, but whether this meant the dogs didn't have it, or it just wasn't diagnosed I wouldn't know.
And yes, I agree with you re high protein feeds, not a huge fan myself, it is only latterly my dogs have had a complete feed, and that is a lower protein one.
 
Actually my theory on GSD hips,the only breed I have experience with this prob,is that if there is so little hip head that no contact of bone on bone can be made the animal stays sound. Acts a bit like femur head removal ,which can be a great success,the muscle capsule just holding things together. Also extremely successful is a "muscle cut" inside the thigh (pecterneal??) that makes the hip sit better. Years ago I had a six month GSD bitch whose hips audibly clicked as she walked(she was out of two BVA Clear parents!) and once this was done she went on to a long active life.
 
Alec the reason there is an improvement in GSDs, is, as MM says, that more and more people have come on board with hip scoring and are selecting breeding animals not just with low scores (as mentioned, it is no failsafe) but which are proven to throw low scoring stock. It's not a coincidence and not 'just one of those things'.

As MM said, there are champions in the UK right now with high hip scores, including one with a score of 50 on one hip, which his owner is very open about, he's a nice dog, and she has no intention of breeding from him, he obviously gaits well and is athletic despite the scores, the owner could put it down to an injury (as he is clear on the other hip) and stick him on top of any bitch that comes along, but fair play to her, she doesn't.



As EK said it can depend on the angle of the joint and socket as to how they actually move.

I see very few GSDs or spaniels with that 'John Wayne' waddle, but plenty of labs. However, even then, that's no indication, only a properly scored plate will tell you one way or another.
I've never believed HD is something you diagnose by sight.

I knew a bitch with a score of 98 who was a champion at 18 months, mainly because of her movement.
Was she sound? On the outside, with the naked eye, clearly, but her hips were a mess, she was not fit to breed from and she was retired from the ring. I don't know how, without looking at x-rays, these vets at Crufts are going to determine how 'healthy' a dog is just by looking.

To the OP, a vet is a vet, you have the option to get a second opinion, you have no obligation to stay, if you're not happy, move - try going for a vet used to x-raying for the BVA scoring scheme, there is a certain procedure, I've heard a lot of horror stories about vets misdiagnosing HD on the premise that it is a dog prone to the complaint and it is walking a bit funny and on consulting a vet experienced with hip problems, turned out to have nothing of the sort.

I was convinced my dog's hips were shot, as he was a bit lame/stiff on his far hind - he had tweaked his back, actually and was carrying his leg short so as not to hurt himself.
His hips are as good as the vet or my mother (an early signatory to the hips scoring scheme) have seen.
Worth getting a back x-ray too?
 
EK, that is exactly why we believe my bitch stayed so sound, there was nothing to form any sort of arthritic problem, and she was such a well muscled little bitch that as you say the muscle bound her together.
 
Sorry just to add...Jakey's elbow dysplasia was diagnosed when he was about 18 months old, it flares up when he runs repeatedly on gravel or jumps out of the car onto gravel and he does ocassionally need Metacam, however, he only needs Metacam about once every three years for a week or so, he is now 14 and he has lived a completely full life, almost all of it running like a maniac off the lead. Lately he has chosen to slow down a bit, when the others come along to the farm he tends to stay near the house, but he doesn't appear to be in any pain and still coping really well, so with a bit of luck they can still have a normal life.
 
Thanks for all the replies - CC - I am planning to register with another vet, mainly because this is not the first time I have been unhappy with my current vets communication abilities. The small animal part of my equine vets is meant to br very good, just 3 times the distance away whichis fine for Bruce, but the cats will object! Bruce has to be the only spaniel on the planet that doesn't like swimming, so I can't swim him in local rivers / sea so I guess i'll have to take him to a local specialist hydrotherapy place - or invest in a wetsuit and get in myself:o
 
I may well have nothing to offer, which is of any use, but none the less, I'm following this thread, with real interest.

I do so wish that a competent MRCVS, taking a benign view of this discussion would offer their thoughts!!

Alec.
 
Sorry if I come across evangelical, I am not knocking vets at all, had my local ones not be so rubbish, shrugging their shoulders and throwing steroids at my dog every time I went, I wouldn't have been forced to change to the fantastic one I have now who actually wanted to get to the seat of the problem, so they actually did me a favour :p God knows what they would have said about his 'bad hips' - good luck and hope you get some answers.
 
C_C,

do you see a way for the canine world to claw their way out of this maelstrom?

Do we, for instance, need to register with an authority, who will face the facts, which so many recognise?

Alec.


Ets, you're not "Evangelical", your opinionated, like the rest of those who care. a.
 
Sorry for going WAAAY off topic - but we follow the German model, which is that dog shows and dog sport are a breed selection tool, not a beauty contest - aimed at promoting the best animals to breed from - IE the dogs that win and get high placings at the top events are the ones recommended for breeding.

In each show/survey critique a German judge will say, for instance 'this male would make a good size corrector' 'this female should only be bred to a dog with strong pigment' etc.

To compete at the top level in the showring and on the working field, the dogs must have low hip and elbow scores (in the German scheme, one of three grades/stamps).

There is also the crossover where the dogs which compete in the top classes must have done a short version of the protection work routine and have certain working qualifications.

There are loopholes of course - a monorchid for example, if he has good hips and elbows, may of course compete in a working trial, and win, despite not being breeding material, literally, and in the showring, in the past, money has talked :( but it is a better system overall, in my opinion, for promoting the right type of animal.

Sadly, however, there are people in the UK who talk the talk but won't walk the walk - they like the idea of this system, are very vocal about supporting it, but won't enter their dogs when the events are held, for one reason or another. It is still seen as a huge step to step away from the KC (they won't support these types of events or consider certain health test results as prerequisite for breeding/registration or competing)

The KC will always be reluctant to crack down too hard on those who breed from high-scored or non-scored animals, because they will lose revenue in registrations.
There are those who don't care about KC registration.

So, to get back to the matter in hand :p there are those who think HD and ED are 'just one of those things' - but I do urge anyone breeding dogs, crosses of dogs prone to these conditions, to score their dogs and eliminate those with high scores from any breeding programme, I would not wish upon any other breed, what we have gone through, but sadly I know it will happen as the popularity of certain breeds and types grows and certain breeding practises continue unchecked. Health testing is expensive, after all.
 
Last edited:
Hi,

Read through my old posts, Chlo has hip dysplasia and is now recovering from the second operation.

You need a specialist opinion, but if you need advice on the ops, then get in touch! xx
 
Alec, Alec, got to take issue with you on one thing, my little castrato is not tubby (although he hits the high notes beautifully):p

Photo0835.jpg


If a dog is fat there is but one reason - too much food, not enough exercise. Not aimed at you OP, since I have no idea how fat your dog may or may not be:)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top