Historical question

[PeterAtAthelstan]

Hi, I wonder whether anyone out there has access to archives of H&H going back to 1936!
I am a volunteer at Athelstan Museum in Malmesbury and we have acquired a video and a still image of a meet of the Beaufort Hunt that took place in Malmesbury in November 1936. This looks like a quite exceptional gathering in the town and so we feel it must have been for a special event. I contacted the archivist of the hunt but she was unable to find any info on this. We have also looked in the local newspaper archives - there we found mention of a meet on 13th Nov which was unusual, in that an award was presented to a long serving member of the hunt, but this meet is said to have taken place approx 3 miles outside Malmesbury.
It seems like it would have been an event that would have been reported on in H&H.
Any information on this event would be gratefully received.

 

[spacefaer]

How interesting!
Have you asked H&H themselves?

 

[ycbm]

Hi Peter, what's making you think it was an unusual meet? My 1980s experience of the Beaufort was that it would attract quite a crowd of horses, riders and people on foot if there was a meet in the centre of a village.

 

[SilverLinings]

I have quite a few 1890s-1940s copies of H&H, I will have a look tomorrow to see if I have an issue from the right date and whether the hunt meet is featured. I also have Riding magazine from the whole of the 1930s and they may have featured it if it was a newsworthy meet, so I will have a look at those too.

 

[PeterAtAthelstan]

Hi Peter, what's making you think it was an unusual meet? My 1980s experience of the Beaufort was that it would attract quite a crowd of horses, riders and people on foot if there was a meet in the centre of a village.

The main thing that makes this look exceptional is that the town centre is crammed with cars, parked 6 deep in one wide area of road - considering how few cars there were around in 1936 that really surprised us.

 

[PeterAtAthelstan]

I have quite a few 1890s-1940s copies of H&H, I will have a look tomorrow to see if I have an issue from the right date and whether the hunt meet is featured. I also have Riding magazine from the whole of the 1930s and they may have featured it if it was a newsworthy meet, so I will have a look at those too.

Thank you!

 

[PeterAtAthelstan]

How interesting!
Have you asked H&H themselves?

I do not know how to do this....

 

[MereChristmas]

I do not know how to do this....

Scroll down there are a few options…

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[Melody Grey]

Perhaps too obvious to suggest but have you tried non-horsey publications- newspapers? Farming news publications?

 

[SilverLinings]

The main thing that makes this look exceptional is that the town centre is crammed with cars, parked 6 deep in one wide area of road - considering how few cars there were around in 1936 that really surprised us.

The Beaufort has long been a wealthy hunt that attracts visiting riders from other hunts and those down from London, so I doubt this was particularly unusual, even in the 1930s. I will see if I can find the meet you are referring to, and I'll also see if I can find any pictures of the Beaufort or other hunts from the 30s showing car followers to see if it stands out as unusual. Are you able to post a picture of the photo on this thread?

 

[ycbm]

The main thing that makes this look exceptional is that the town centre is crammed with cars, parked 6 deep in one wide area of road - considering how few cars there were around in 1936 that really surprised us.

Interesting, but as someone else has said the Beaufort hunts the area around the Badminton estate on the Duke of Beaufort's land and would in those days have had a following of exactly the people who would have owned cars. Any meet would have been a major entertainment, I would guess, in the era before shopping malls and multiscreen cinemas.
.

 

[nikicb]

I have done a quick search of British newspapers as I use a subscription for family history research. I don't really want to share a screenshot as I think my subscription prohibits that, but I quote from the Telegraph on 9th November 1936:

"BEAUFORT HUNT
KING A SUBSCRIBER TO VETERAN HUNTSMAN
From Our Own Correspondent
MALMESBURY, Sunday.
The King is among the 517 subseribers who have contributed £1,630 to the fund for presenting a testimonial to Tom Newman, who for 36 years served the Beaufort Hunt. For 20 years Mr. Newman, who has just retired was huntsman. An annuity on the joint lives of Mr. Newman and his wife has been purchased with the money subscribed. An illuminated address with the name of the King at the head was presented to him at yesterday' opening meet of the Beaufort Hunt Foxley Green, near Malmesbury. The presentation was made by Sir Audley Neeld, chairman of the Hunt Committer and the oldest member."

Perhaps the King's involvement is why it was such a well attended occasion? Does the date tie in?

Edited to add, there is also an article in the The Western Daily Press and Bristol Mirror on 28 Dec 1936, regarding the Boxing Day meet which met at Cross Hayes, Malmesbury. There are reports of cars being five abreast and blocking the main street of the town before the meet. There are photos in that article.

Should also add I have absolutely no interest in hunting, but I do love history.

 

[AmyMay]

Well researched @nikicb

 

[PeterAtAthelstan]

I have done a quick search of British newspapers as I use a subscription for family history research. I don't really want to share a screenshot as I think my subscription prohibits that, but I quote from the Telegraph on 9th November 1936:

"BEAUFORT HUNT
KING A SUBSCRIBER TO VETERAN HUNTSMAN
From Our Own Correspondent
MALMESBURY, Sunday.
The King is among the 517 subseribers who have contributed £1,630 to the fund for presenting a testimonial to Tom Newman, who for 36 years served the Beaufort Hunt. For 20 years Mr. Newman, who has just retired was huntsman. An annuity on the joint lives of Mr. Newman and his wife has been purchased with the money subscribed. An illuminated address with the name of the King at the head was presented to him at yesterday' opening meet of the Beaufort Hunt Foxley Green, near Malmesbury. The presentation was made by Sir Audley Neeld, chairman of the Hunt Committer and the oldest member."

Perhaps the King's involvement is why it was such a well attended occasion? Does the date tie in?

Edited to add, there is also an article in the The Western Daily Press and Bristol Mirror on 28 Dec 1936, regarding the Boxing Day meet which met at Cross Hayes, Malmesbury. There are reports of cars being five abreast and blocking the main street of the town before the meet. There are photos in that article.

Should also add I have absolutely no interest in hunting, but I do love history.

The first of these meets that you have found is the one we found, but it's not actually in the town, however the 28th Dec meet does sound more like the one we are looking for, though we were told it was in November. I will track down the newspaper articles you mention. Thanks very much for your help.

 

[PeterAtAthelstan]

Interesting, but as someone else has said the Beaufort hunts the area around the Badminton estate on the Duke of Beaufort's land and would in those days have had a following of exactly the people who would have owned cars. Any meet would have been a major entertainment, I would guess, in the era before shopping malls and multiscreen cinemas.
.

Well yes, I appreciate your comment. It looks so amazing to our eyes but times have changed!

 

[nikicb]

The first of these meets that you have found is the one we found, but it's not actually in the town, however the 28th Dec meet does sound more like the one we are looking for, though we were told it was in November. I will track down the newspaper articles you mention. Thanks very much for your help.

Good luck. Please come back and let us know if you do find out.

 

[PeterAtAthelstan]

The Beaufort has long been a wealthy hunt that attracts visiting riders from other hunts and those down from London, so I doubt this was particularly unusual, even in the 1930s. I will see if I can find the meet you are referring to, and I'll also see if I can find any pictures of the Beaufort or other hunts from the 30s showing car followers to see if it stands out as unusual. Are you able to post a picture of the photo on this thread?

Thank you for this comment, and if you can find any other information that would be great. The photo we have matches the item that nikicb found in the Western Daily Press, so this is definitely the Boxing Day hunt, but there is still uncertainty about the video. The donor said it was in November '36, but the only hunt I have seen reference to anywhere near Malmesbury in November was at Foxley Green, not in the town. Comments on this forum have made me realise that the hunt filmed might not have been exceptional. It's frustrating that the hunt archivist was not able to provide a me with a timetable of hunts for the year, so I don't know if there were any hunts that met in the town in November.

 

[SilverLinings]

Thank you for this comment, and if you can find any other information that would be great. The photo we have matches the item that nikicb found in the Western Daily Press, so this is definitely the Boxing Day hunt, but there is still uncertainty about the video. The donor said it was in November '36, but the only hunt I have seen reference to anywhere near Malmesbury in November was at Foxley Green, not in the town. Comments on this forum have made me realise that the hunt filmed might not have been exceptional. It's frustrating that the hunt archivist was not able to provide a me with a timetable of hunts for the year, so I don't know if there were any hunts that met in the town in November.

I will have a look this afternoon or this evening and if there are no pictures/articles I will see if there is at least a list of meet dates. I think the Badminton Estate has an archive in it's library, and as they kennelled the hounds they are likely to have records. Badminton House is still private but I expect they employ an archivist or historian who may be able to help you.

 

[nikicb]

Thank you for this comment, and if you can find any other information that would be great. The photo we have matches the item that nikicb found in the Western Daily Press, so this is definitely the Boxing Day hunt, but there is still uncertainty about the video. The donor said it was in November '36, but the only hunt I have seen reference to anywhere near Malmesbury in November was at Foxley Green, not in the town. Comments on this forum have made me realise that the hunt filmed might not have been exceptional. It's frustrating that the hunt archivist was not able to provide a me with a timetable of hunts for the year, so I don't know if there were any hunts that met in the town in November.

The The Western Daily Press and Bristol Mirror listed the upcoming meets under the title "Hunting Appointments". A list for November 1936 was published on 5th November. There are quite a few hunts listed, but the Duke of Beaufort's hounds were due to meet at "the monument" on 6th November. Could this monument be in Malmesbury? There are other meet lists published in November, but locations look to me to be around the area rather than in Malmesbury itself, but although I don't live a million miles away, I am not too familiar with the area. The other thing to consider is whether 1936 is the correct year - the video could obviously date from a couple of years either side and the date recorded incorrectly.

 

[spacefaer]

@nikicb the Monument is near Hawkesbury Upton, not in Malmesbury

 

[nikicb]

@nikicb the Monument is near Hawkesbury Upton, not in Malmesbury

Thanks for clarifying that, as I say not overly familiar with the area. Hopefully searching the hunting appointments in the newspaper archive will shed some light for @PeterAtAthelstan

 

[PeterAtAthelstan]

Thanks for clarifying that, as I say not overly familiar with the area. Hopefully searching the hunting appointments in the newspaper archive will shed some light for @PeterAtAthelstan

Thanks a lot for this extra info.

 

[PeterAtAthelstan]

I will have a look this afternoon or this evening and if there are no pictures/articles I will see if there is at least a list of meet dates. I think the Badminton Estate has an archive in it's library, and as they kennelled the hounds they are likely to have records. Badminton House is still private but I expect they employ an archivist or historian who may be able to help you.

I have talked to the archivist at Badminton already, but surprisingly she was not able to help.

 

[MereChristmas]

This may entail a lot of research.
A Baileys Hunting Directory of appropriate years would give you Hunt officials. Perhaps their descendants might have records?
My local Hunt often prints historic records from local families

 

[Orangehorse]

The Prince of Wales - future Edward VIII - hunted with the Beaufort.

My uncle was groom to him for one season, I think at Easton Grey. My cousin has a "Christmas card" from Edward to her father.