hit a prob with barefoot,not sure what to do??

jackessex

jackessex

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hi all,im hopeing this post wont turn into a barefoot/shod argument!!!
my boy is 8 he has had on going soundness probs for the last 3 yrs or so was prev shod started having short stride and tripping/stumbling in front went through various tests with vets and the outcome was that he has "changes" in feet so raised heel shoes were put on and he seemed ok for a few months then slowly went back to tripping etc,xrays showed nav bone seemed ok but vet said he cant rule out navicular.about 3 months ago i decided i would go down the barefoot path as i felt i had nothing to loose,he has been ok infact he has been landing heel first!which is a miracle as he hasnt done that for about 2 yrs!!!but i have been fighting thrush im treating at the mo by washing feet in savlon liquid and a purple spray that vet gave for the use of thrush and it is defo better than it was,but we had heavy rain last night and today when i rode out (epics in front) he felt "footy" and even on the better surface he still doest feel right tripping in front again,but mainly on front left and he is toe first again in fact i got of him to walk home as he just doesnt seem right,so now im not sure whats going on is it poss its the epics as the foot hes not right on is larger than other one and he is moving it odly in boot ie dishing and sweeping it across the other foot??it may be that boot is to small now as his feet have grown alot but would this make hime stumble etc??or does it sound like maybe "changes" affecting him again :(
im so sorry for the long post!!!advice very much appreciated!!!
 
oh and i forgot to say he lives out 24/7 on not lush grass he was being fed fast fibre/pink powder and biotin,in the last 3 days have switched to alfa a/speedy beet/biotin/pink powder/magnesium/linseed/brewers yeast so im wondering if its poss suger related???although i thought alfa a was ok??
 
oh so do you think its just that then?it says its for lami"s so i just thought it would be ok,he was even more footy with his back feet tonight.
 
I can't say for certain that it's the problem but I know quite a few barefoot horses can't tolerate alfalfa.

Of course, I'm relatively new to it all but it did help mine when I took them back off it. Stop feeding it for a few days and see what happens.
 
Mine is a laminitic (although not barefoot) and I wouldn't feed her alfa a. Maybe try hi-fi lite if you are going for a low sugar diet?
 
We're finding most of the grazing in UK is high in calcium and manganese and lower in zinc (needed for repair of tissues) and copper (has a large role in insulin regulation).

Calcium and manganese also BLOCK absorption of copper and zinc.

Guess what's high in calcium?

Alfalfa and Beet.

So you are already too high in calcium and low in zinc and copper and just adding more calcium to the pot.

I fed alfalfa and speedibeet for years and noticed a huge change in my horses when I changed to plain old Fast Fibre, 1tsp copper and 1tsp zinc.

I'd stick to Fast Fibre, brewer's yeast (or replace it with Yea-sacc), linseed, magnesium and biotin.

With the stubborn thrush - I like Sudocrem or Red Horse products, but if that doesn't work then consider athletes foot products as it may be fungal.

When was he last trimmed?
 
My lad is barefoot and suffers badly with thrush if he get too much sugar. I have changed from feeding him alfa-a oil (which he needed to get weight back on) to alfa-a light and he has become much less footy. Sugar definately will affect them!

oh and when i treat his thrush, i use an antibacterial cream (a cheapy one from boots or somewhere) and a cheap version on canestan, both mixed together. He gets it in the groove of his frog so i just syringe it into there twice a day. clears it up within the week.
 
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My girl is struggling at the moment, and I thing that is mainly due to thrush. I think you will find that once you have got that under control that things will improve.
 
RolyPolyPony said:
My lad is barefoot and suffers badly with thrush if he get too much sugar. I have changed from feeding him alfa-a oil (which he needed to get weight back on) to alfa-a light and he has become much less footy. Sugar definately will affect them!

oh and when i treat his thrush, i use an antibacterial cream (a cheapy one from boots or somewhere) and a cheap version on canestan, both mixed together. He gets it in the groove of his frog so i just syringe it into there twice a day. clears it up within the week.
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Another vote for this treatment. Mix 50:50 into a feeding syringe and squirt in the collateral grooves.

I dont feed alfalfa either.
 
ok thanks for that,i will go and get the creams today,back to the fast fibre for me then!this horse is costing me a fortune!!:)
 
oberon,he is due a trim also but his feet look good!a couple of little chips but thats the last of the nail holes going :) its 4 wks since done last and i rasp them in between visits.but the hoof giving him probs is not as good as the other one (they are not a pair)and he has a horny growth which comes out from back of pastern which has a blood supply which i think is the prob with getting the boots to fit properly as they all tighten around it,i think this is why he doesnt move correctly in them :(
 
Chromium helps to regulate sugars, i add it to my tubby boys chaff when the grass has a spurt.

Have you tried an Old Mac boot? I use mine with a gaitor which helps.
 
The best an quickest solution I have found for thrush is 'sugerdine' my navicular horse also suffers with thrush and this will clear it up in 2 applications.

I searched as you have to find a solution on the forums and this was widely spoken about but I couldn't find it anywhere!

It is actually what people call the paste when they have mixed it up!

You get a bottle of betadine solution, and a bag of sugar, mix together to form a paste and brush on a freshly cleaned and dry frog and sole, it works a treat and its cheaper than all the 'equine potions' your horse will thank you for it.

just apply once a day and stop when it has cleared up, I don't think the sugar has any hidden properties other than making it easier to apply and 'hold' onto the sole for longer, its the betadine that does the work, but betadine is to watery to do any good on its own.
 
jackessex said:
ok thanks for that,i will go and get the creams today,back to the fast fibre for me then!this horse is costing me a fortune!!:)
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Fast fibre is high in sugar and starchy. I would say that it is a build up feed. Beet pulp would be my choice with oat straw chaff.
 
tallyho! said:
Fast fibre is high in sugar and starchy. I would say that it is a build up feed. Beet pulp would be my choice with oat straw chaff.
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Fast fibre is only 5% starch and 2% sugar :confused:

Unollassed beet is 5% sugar, so fast fibre has a lower content of sugar than the beet.
 
touchstone said:
Fast fibre is only 5% starch and 2% sugar :confused:

Unollassed beet is 5% sugar, so fast fibre has a lower content of sugar than the beet.
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yes but the fast fibre has more starch (carbohydrates) which converts into sugar. So it has more sugar in it.

It also has vit/min suplementation which worries me as you don't know how much to give as you could be overdosing e.g. vit a is VERY high. If horse is out at grass too, this can reach toxic levels. people think horses need lots of vit a so give carrots by the bucket load. But vit a toxicity is much worse than deficiency... it causes bone demineralisation, bone overgrwoth and liver problems.
 
Hmm we'll have to disagree on that one then,:) 5% starch is still low and I believe providing the total of starch and sugar combined is below 10% it is considered safe for metabolic horses to eat. Certainly I've had problems with speedibeet in the past and used fast fibre with no issues whatsoever.
 
No problem. It is well known that any foods containing starch in barefooted horses does cause problems.

Not in every case of course.

As soon as I switched from fast fibre to beet, and cut out alfalfa, our footiness stopped. That was before i added mag-ox.
 
Mitchyden said:
I can't actually feed either of mine Alfalfa as it makes them footy.
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Really interesting; started P on Happy hooves, she is barefoot, and after a week she was uncomfortable;Stopped feeding it, kept her in during the day on poor hay, then out at night on grazing muzzle, now out 27/7 but muzzled during the day and is improving. She is a good doer.
 
texel said:
Oberon

what form of Copper and zinc do you use ?
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I buy from either Forage Plus or Progressive Earth on eBay.

I also use Lysine and mag ox as advised by the diet sheet done by my trimmer.

It is better to get a forage analysis first as just adding minerals in can be dangerous.

When the horse is trimmed - is the sole trimmed at all?
 
margaretb said:
Really interesting; started P on Happy hooves, she is barefoot, and after a week she was uncomfortable;Stopped feeding it, kept her in during the day on poor hay, then out at night on grazing muzzle, now out 27/7 but muzzled during the day and is improving. She is a good doer.
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I fed Happy Hoof for a long time - not great though.

Horses were better off it.
 
jackessex said:
oh and i forgot to say he lives out 24/7 on not lush grass
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It doesn't matter how lush the grass is, lots of horses cannot tolerate 24/7 access to it in spring summer and early autumn. If your horse comes right in the autumn and then goes footie again in spring you will need to restrict his daytime grazing to get him right. If he was mine I would do it now, but that may not be so easy for you to do as it would for me. Meanwhile, if you do all the balancing stuff people have said then you might find that the thrush problem diminishes the healthier his diet. I hope you get him sorted.
 
thanks all!
cptrayes i cant bring him in unfortunatly there are only 3 horses at mine so if i bring him in he will smash the stable up!!!he is a plonker like that!!!
ive looked at him today and strangly seems ok again,running round field as normal so im at a loss as what triggered the footyness?ive given him fast fibre today but only 1 scoop just to give him supps,the paddock he is on is very bare so i think he should be ok on there.
i need to sort the boot situation out tho as my easyboot epic spun round on his foot yesterday i think maybe the metal wire has stretched poss?as they have been ok up till now,its so annoying as the back feet look pretty amazing soles are becoming concaved and wearing down themselves but the front have a lot of flakey sole as they are not getting roughed off on the ground due to the boots being on,but he is not ready to not wear them in front yet :(
 
Oberon said:
I buy from either Forage Plus or Progressive Earth on eBay.

I also use Lysine and mag ox as advised by the diet sheet done by my trimmer.

It is better to get a forage analysis first as just adding minerals in can be dangerous.

When the horse is trimmed - is the sole trimmed at all?
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Oberon - thanks and the soles are not trimmed.
 
jackessex said:
thanks all!
cptrayes i cant bring him in unfortunatly there are only 3 horses at mine so if i bring him in he will smash the stable up!!!he is a plonker like that!!!
ive looked at him today and strangly seems ok again,running round field as normal so im at a loss as what triggered the footyness?
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It can be as simple as a rise in temperature or a bit of sun after some rain. The flush of grass can make them footie the next day, and then it goes again. This year has been a complete nightmare for evil grass, I think because of the fluctuations in temperature and rainfall. People think we are nuts when we say it affects them that fast, but plenty of us see the same thing. Magnesium helps, the grass flush is low magnesium and at least you can even that out.
 
tallyho! said:
Another vote for this treatment. Mix 50:50 into a feeding syringe and squirt in the collateral grooves.

I dont feed alfalfa either.
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Another vote for the clotrimazole and antibacterial creams (Pete's goo)

Also I got advice from the Yahoo group that most horses are overloaded with iron the Zinc/Copper will counteract that. Apparently should be a 2:1 mix of Zinc/Copper.
Has anyone any tips on getting a picky eater to take the Mg? I found when I add it to his feed, it seems to turn the speedibeet sour as within a few minutes it gets a bad smell and he wont eat it (don't blame him actually) and I hate having to syringe stuff into his mouth unless absolutely necessary.
 
2 things... if his feet have grown then his toes are longer so he will trip, get him trimmed more regularly, also check your hay, I started feeding this years hay and started to get footy and heat in the feet so now they are back on the crappy stuff soaked..no more problems. Good Luck
 
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