Hitting Horses.....

[GTs]

So in another thread for a certain behavior it was mentioned that their horse would get:

3 hits with a whip
4 hits with a whip
3 minutes of hitting with whatever they can get their hands on (who would say that???)

Seriously, when does it become excessive? Is one enough? 2? 3? Or do something deserve a hiding till your arm gets sore?

I never used to ride my horses with a whip, and never needed it. However I think beyond 3 is excessive, the only exception is if a horse is not going past something, and needs continuous encourage.

 

[Skhosu]

Sj I think the rule is around 2/3 per jump.
I reckon one good smack tends to let them know it's not right, unless continuous encouragement is needed(but obviously would try other techniques as well!)
I think by the time you get to 3, the horse is just going to be wound up by being hit.

 

[lisaward]

oh great just when i am off to bed you post this!!

you know we will have a ton of do-gooders now ranting and raving and i'll miss a good debate LOL

 

[clipertyplop]

one good smack immediatlly is better than several tickles,because i beleive they forget what there being smacked for, anything more than 3 i think the rider has lost the plot and is beating the horse up

 

[sea_view]

I agree! One hard slap should suffice!

 

[GTs]

When you say one you mean around the head right? The closer to the brain the quicker they realise it.

 

[Nikiolola]

You've got to ask though, what exactly does smacking a horse twice do that smacking it once won't?

 

[Skhosu]

yup. abosloutely GTS, in fact, a cattle prod is the best tool there, a good wallop PLUS a shock for good measure

 

[GTs]

[ QUOTE ]
You've got to ask though, what exactly does smacking a horse twice do that smacking it once won't?

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Twice as much - I think!

 

[GTs]

[ QUOTE ]
yup. abosloutely GTS, in fact, a cattle prod is the best tool there, a good wallop PLUS a shock for good measure

[/ QUOTE ]

I have hot shot a horse - it made me sad!!

 

[seabiscuit]

PMSL Gts! Head hitting-yuk!
If a horse is being very very naughty, then 1 or 2 hard whacks across the backside in quick succession is sufficient enough to get the message through.Absolutely no more than that ever. It is very very rare that I hit a horse. Most of the time they just need patience and understanding. But if a horse will not accept simple ground rules after the patience and understanding, it will be hit. I.E habitually badly behaved horse arrrived yesterday that does not want to go forwards and is always running backwards and rearing.Owner has let it get away with this since it was broken in a year ago. It was hit twice every time it refused to move then patted when it moved off- 20 mins later- perfectly behaved and HAPPIER horse that had a firm understanding of what the ground rules were.

 

[Skhosu]

hot shot?

 

[GTs]

It is a cattle prod with the electric shock, rather then sharp fork - this one had new batteries and could raise the dead. Infact it pretty much did.

 

[marmite]

as soon as you feel them start to back from the leg lets say for instance they decide they dont like something and you ask nicely with the leg as soon as they dont respond a quick sharp smack usually works and shocks them into going forwards.
Just mainly to back the leg up i however rode another liveries pony today that is so naughty and plants itself it got so many smacks i cant count it tried rearing and bucking didnt get me off so decided to plant and bounce but at the end of its schooling session it learnt napping gets you nowhere except with a sore bum.
And its earned itself a one way ticket to a few weeks with me.

 

[0]

TBH with my horse the only time i use my whip is when schooling to "tap up behind" and engage her if she is being a little lazy (these are NOT smacks but taps). And she is highly strung so can be silly, in which case if in school (which i usually am) i ignore her at first but once we start working and she knows it's time to settle down, if she doesn't then i just give her short sharp tap to tell her to behave (she knows that dressage is her job and responds to this *fairly* quickly - but once we start working she usually concentrates and doesn't be silly anyway!!! If i'm on one of my rare hacks and she starts being silly then i would also give short sharp tap but maybe a little more forcefully as it's more important for her to behave!!!! though on hacks she generally naps because she is wary not naughty so pats are my method and anyway she just digs her heels in if i use a stick as she gets offended!!!

Having read this and realising how if this and but that it all is, it is obvious that you have to judge each situation - my horse can be very silly but i know that and so live with it, i have also learnt that she calms down quicker if i ignore her rather than use whip which only serves to wind her up more and therefore i would say that i use it very little but that is not to say that if i had a horse which i felt needed a smack, i wouldn't smack it, because i would. But i don't agree with excess whipping but i suppose to answer your qu which is when does it become excessive - i don't know (lol) depends on each situation and the horse in qu. When i witness situations i KNOW when it gets excessive but it is hard to put that point in time down in writting!!!!!!

 

[0]

[ QUOTE ]
one good smack immediatlly is better than several tickles,because i beleive they forget what there being smacked for, anything more than 3 i think the rider has lost the plot and is beating the horse up

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100% agree with this!!
Marmite - would you not think to yourself re the pony "this method is obviously not working - i will try something else" rather than sitting there hitting it over and over - if it's not reacting then the method is not working.
I believe that whips are not there to cause pain (pony having sore bum

) but to help create a reaction - if your not getting it.....try something else!!!

 

[Patches]

I've only had to use the whip once on Patches in a forceful way. Last week she stopped dead in the road, spun around and cantered off at a skip. Never spooked at anything before and repeated turned to run in the road. She wouldn't have gotten past the skip without several smacks of the whip. Praised her loads (and felt a tad guilty) afterwards, but the leg was not enough that day. Dirty stop and spin followed by cantering off and having no control is not good

Have used a whip to back up leg aids in flat and lateral work but that is the first and only time I've used a whip with more force. Didn't like it, but she HAD to go pass the skip!

 

[GTs]

I have had horses, where 5 mins of walking on a loose rein will do more then anything a whip could offer. Frustrated, anxious, upset horses are generally not going to behave properly.

 

[marmite]

Jacob is very much the same as yours he spooks a bit out hacking or when you take him somewhere new but the worst thing you can do is hit him with a whip he takes extreme offence to it and will give you it straight back by bucking the best way with him is firm voice and alot of pats to reassure him.

 

[0]

that's what i said - i can't tell if you are agreeing with me or pointing something out to me????

 

[Skhosu]

Would not be happy repeatedly hitting, something is wrong there I think MArmite. Have all physical things been checked?
Agree with Patches about going past skip/things. We have pigs, we have to get past to go up the road, my pony stops at the bottom of a 100m hill they're at the top of and refuses to go up. A smack sends him forwards, plus other techniques (patting on going forward, start at canter up the hill etc.).
My horse, I couldn't hit hard or he would go dolally. Only time I tried it was the day we got eliminated xc (the only time he's ever stopped) when he did not like a fence. Didn't work as I ended up on the ground!
So overall depends on situation, wouldn't like to see repeated whipping or more than 1/2 slaps for a bad behavior (and taps where possible of course!)

 

[Super_Kat]

If my horse won't go forwards off the leg she'll get a smack (I rarely carry a whip anyway)

 

[marmite]

the only time i smacked it was when it went numb to the leg and it is very numb and it tried napping if its going to nap it will get a smack after ten mins or so of trying to nap back to the gate it realised if it walked trotted past without carrying on it got a pat and praise it tried to nap it got a smack.

by the end it learned if i go forwards and nicely dont nap i will get praise and no smacks if im riding something and its been naughty i WILL tell it full stop this pony can change though after a 30 min schooling session she managed to get past the gate 7 times no napping or no smacks so she picked it up.


but the fact this pony belongs to children it has dominated and bullied she needs to be dominated and taught that people can be the boss,and after i got off and the little girl got back on what a change she took a firm hand with it and actually managed to trot it round and canter it and most of all no napping which is the best they have ever done.

 

[GTs]

I am agreeing.

 

[Patches]

Our "foot man" (for the cows - he will spend a day doing 30 or so in his roll over crush...saves us the time) has an electric cattle prod. He calls it the stinger, actually illegal so I believe. Evolution has clearly taught our cows what one is though as he only has to wave it at them and they are in that crush and practically beg him to shut the door, roll it over and do their feet!

 

[marmite]

yes everything is fine with pony girl is a good little rider too just the pony reared with her and scared her so once it came down and stood stock still girl was too scared to push it on.
And now its stands stock still and when girl asks it to move on and gives slight tap with the whip it bounces infront to give the impression its going to rear so the little girl gets upset and gives up,bang pony wins.

Tried it on with me but as soon as it realised it couldnt get me off by rearing or bucking it tried napping and got told off for it so learned to accept it do its job shut up and get on with it.
And by the time i had finished riding it much better pony.

But whilst im schooling it im taking it back to basics long reining and lunging ect i will learn to go from voice and leg and its actually a nice pony once you get it going it can be fixed.

 

[Weezy]

Havent read the whole thread HOWEVER - two smacks for me - NEVER EVER anymore than that and TBH I cannot remember the last time I rode with a whip (lie -I do, I carried one jumping Paris at Blenheim, but other than that - nope!)

 

[PapaFrita]

Are you bored GTs or just spoiling for a good *ahem* debate?

I suppose it depends on the horse, doesn't it? PF and Antifaz don't get hit at all, ever because they respond better to gentler persusasion, BUT a persistently naughty and wilfull horse might need 1 or 2 smacks at the right time, and as a last resort.

 

[Blackhawk]

Can...worms....open

 

[SirenaXVI]

[ QUOTE ]
It is a cattle prod with the electric shock, rather then sharp fork - this one had new batteries and could raise the dead. Infact it pretty much did.

[/ QUOTE ]

My personal favourite is the electrified bucket - works wonders with a nappy horse