Hmm, a leg yield question/musing... Any ideas?

[nieghham]

Please can you explain this, because in the U.K. we are taught that we have one 'core' (i.e. all the core muscles of the torso working together to make one stable core) so your plurals totally confuse me, in amongst all the other confusion!

There are the upper cores...lower cores and lateral cores.

please become a slack rag sitting on the chair slouching without exaggrating the slouch...thank you

The belly button is a good divider for the front cores....just sit on a chair and pull in the lower stomach in you know suck it in to make it smaller only....that is the lower core.

Now above the belllybutton from the diaphram....lift the breat plate up slightly until it lifts the body aligning the shoulder over the hips...though you may feel the back...it was the cores that just took the slouch/rounding out of the back by bringing the hip forward in the lift and the shoulders back as the spine straightens.

One lifts and hold the cores just enough to keep the back naturally straight allowing the shoulders to come back and drop into a natural place over the hips.
This is why the cores must be developed...this is thier "ready" without actually engaging them through breath

The lateral cores run along the side of the rider under the armpit to the hip...you often see a rider collapse these cores by collapsing the waist and dropping the shoulder to the hip leaning over and unbalancing the alignment of lateralweight placment

the lateral cores divide at the belly botton too...but they simply need to stretch away from each other so the rider can lengthen the body without causing any tension to the muscles along the spine

If a rider uses the shoulder blade to place the upper body....they are incorrectly engaging the backmuscles in this area...these muscles need to remain relaxed/supple so they do not send tension into the lower back/hips or into the elbow/hands via the shoulder.

Using the already developed cores with a developed but naturally placed but relaxed back keeps the riders longitudinal suppleness flexible enough to sit the gaits/movments of extentions without bouncing

One can activate the cores individually....the lateral cores help drop the kinetic energy of the drop/weight aids into the hip/seat bones for example...a "catch" of breath in the upper core while tightning the lower core is a halt aid to my horses....it is the activation of both upper/lower yes...but I can regulate my tempo by simple tightning my lower core and allowing the resistance to travel fromvmy spine over the horses where it is received as a resistance/downward aid command

This is just a quick explaination but I hope it helps some to stopany confusion

 

[Auslander]

Please can you explain this, because in the U.K. we are taught that we have one 'core' (i.e. all the core muscles of the torso working together to make one stable core) so your plurals totally confuse me, in amongst all the other confusion!

I'm surprised to read this Kerrilli - I thought you of all people would know that two cores are better than one. Great explanation here

 

[meardsall_millie]

With respect, we have one core - we just activate different aspects of it depending on the movement we are undertaking at the time.

The concept of 3 cores is akin to saying we have 7 brains as there are different areas activated according to activity.

Talk about confusing!

 

[kerilli]

Neighham, I'm really glad you only gave me the quick explanation, if that was it!

"to keep the back naturally straight"... Umm, but the back is NOT naturally straight. It has, from the side, a totally natural S shape. Of course pronounced lordosis is not desirable, but anyone riding with a truly straight back will imho be very stiff and won't enjoy the ride, and nor will their horse! If I think of the best dressage riders I can picture, they stay upright with shoulders perfectly aligned above pelvis, but they do NOT straighten out their back, there is a natural curve inwards to the small of the back.

m_m, I'm with you on that! We have one core, made made up of lots of different muscle groups etc, but it's far easier to think of it at a single core. Of course it isn't difficult to tell someone to bring their waist or shoulders more above their hips, etc, but to think of more than one core is imho unnecessarily confusing!
If I think of different cores I will be imagining myself as a slinky up there...

 

[Mongoose11]

My brain has just fallen out.....

We have one core - sure. Different parts can be activated individually (I'm doing it right now )

Simples.

 

[Scarlett]

I am beyond confused I even tried reading this last night with a mug of gin and that *still* didn't make it any clearer.

I think, personally, one of the greatest skills a trainer can have the the ability to simplify things. Over complicating things in too many details and too many words makes it out of the realms of mere mortals like me, which is offputting in some respects. I'm going back to my nice, friendly, simple books...

 

[Tonks]

I have more than one core it's because I ate too much cake at Christmas .

He, he, he!

My core went on holiday before Xmas and is refusing to come back.

 

[FfionWinnie]

Neighham I would like to see some videos demonstrating what you mean, a picture paints a thousand words, a video even more so. Can you put on a youtube vid of you riding please?

 

[Tonks]

There are the upper cores...lower cores and lateral cores.

The belly button is a good divider for the front cores....just sit on a chair and pull in the lower stomach in you know suck it in to make it smaller only....that is the lower core.

Now above the belllybutton from the diaphram....lift the breat plate up slightly until it lifts the body aligning the shoulder over the hips...though you may feel the back...it was the cores that just took the slouch/rounding out of the back by bringing the hip forward in the lift and the shoulders back as the spine straightens.

One lifts and hold the cores just enough to keep the back naturally straight allowing the shoulders to come back and drop into a natural place over the hips.
This is why the cores must be developed...this is thier "ready" without actually engaging them through breath

The lateral cores run along the side of the rider under the armpit to the hip...you often see a rider collapse these cores by collapsing the waist and dropping the shoulder to the hip leaning over and unbalancing the alignment of lateralweight placment

the lateral cores divide at the belly botton too...but they simply need to stretch away from each other so the rider can lengthen the body without causing any tension to the muscles along the spine

If a rider uses the shoulder blade to place the upper body....they are incorrectly engaging the backmuscles in this area...these muscles need to remain relaxed/supple so they do not send tension into the lower back/hips or into the elbow/hands via the shoulder.

Using the already developed cores with a developed but naturally placed but relaxed back keeps the riders longitudinal suppleness flexible enough to sit the gaits/movments of extentions without bouncing

One can activate the cores individually....the lateral cores help drop the kinetic energy of the drop/weight aids into the hip/seat bones for example...a "catch" of breath in the upper core while tightning the lower core is a halt aid to my horses....it is the activation of both upper/lower yes...but I can regulate my tempo by simple tightning my lower core and allowing the resistance to travel fromvmy spine over the horses where it is received as a resistance/downward aid command

This is just a quick explaination but I hope it helps some to stopany confusion

I think what you have to say does indeed, have a lot of relevance and is accurate. The language, syntact and terms are somewhat confusing, however. So, this is where I was struggling.

In the UK there is a growing interest in rider bio-mechanics, which you describe - Mary Waneless being one of them. Core stability is of course, very important in riding.

However, as alluded to in my previous posts, although bio-mechanics is important it is only part of the whole. For me, how the rider delivers/applies the aids overrides what we do with our core.

For example, if you have a really strong pull on the reins - it is this that your horse will object to and what you do with your core is pretty much irrelevant at this time!!

As stated before, your horse must be trained to understand your seat means 'stops'. They will not 'naturally' stop from a change in seat posture like they do with the rein aids. Using the seat alone without pairing it with the pressure/release of the reins simply produces too much varied behavour.

That's why good old pony club instructors tell us to 'go into sitting trot before you pull on the reins to ask for the transition from trot to walk'! Its classical conditioning/secondary reinforcers in action!!!

How we apply our rein and leg aids overrides what happens with our seat. This is because to the horse, the rein aids (especially) and leg aids are more SALIENT - they are simply felt more - the horses mouth is incredibly sensitive.

If all is well with how we [as riders] give the rein and leg aids - you can begin to train the seat aids and use your core. However, if there is a problem with rein/leg aids your seat aids will be ignored.

When altering our seat we can indeed, activate lower/middle/higher/lateral - just as Mary Waneless states, so I do agree with you on that one. And, I also agree that one must have a flexible and yeilding back. Rigidity in the rider produces rigidity in the horse to the point of perhpas affecting the gate.

 

[TrasaM]

Confused I regularly do this exercise on different RS horses to get them bending and responsive at the start of the lesson. The best illustration I was given By my RI was how to do it incorrectly, ie using the incorrect aids, and see how the horse responded. Logic being was if I could see what happened if I did it incorrectly that I would therefore avoid these errors.

I thought that leg yielding as, in half pass, was different. Horse faces forwards with body straight whilst moving diagonally wheras spiralling in and out in increasing or decreasing circles horses body is bent. .?? .?

PS.. Philippe Karl would point out that a horse has very limited ability to bend through it's back. So the bend we seek is a bit of an illusion. Ref.. Twisted truth of Modern Dressage.

 

[nieghham]

With respect, we have one core - we just activate different aspects of it depending on the movement we are undertaking at the time.

The concept of 3 cores is akin to saying we have 7 brains as there are different areas activated according to activity.

Talk about confusing!

You are correct...the articulation left that part out...one core 4 different large acting muscles that make up the core all can be engaged independantly or together

The core is like the brain in that way...there is only one brain for sure but the brain is made up of the frontal lobe/parietal lobe/temporal lobe/cerebellum/ect......all muscles that make up the one brain but each part has a different function(yes I know there are more muscles but I think I used enough)

The front upper core is made up of the pectorials/linea alba/rectus abdominis/ect while the lateralcores generally refers to the serratus and the lower being engaged by the oponeurosis and is supported by the ingualliogamants

^^^this is the breaking down of the activation of the core .."the science" behind coreis knowing the indivdual muscles and their engagement not only as an indenpendant and as a group...IMHO....this is something any rider who wants to compete above or successfully above level 3 Dressage must have cemented down to progress and these cores are most certainly depended on for the rider over any 4'9" course

Rectus abdominus –

When you look at someone’s washboard abs — also known as the six pack — you’re seeing his rectus abdominis muscle.

When this muscle group contracts, it flexes your lower (lumbar) spine. Basically, it moves your ribcage closer to your pelvis.

But even when you’re not moving, it can function to harden your abdomen and increase your intraabdominal pressure which stabilizes and strengthens the spine during exercise. (wish I could copy/paste to show how your spine is supported by your abdomen and core muscles.)



Transversus abdominis...lower core

The transversus abdominis (I’ll call it the transverse abs) is a relatively small muscle that pulls your internal abdominal organs “upward” when you suck in the gut


Obliques...lateral cores

The external and internal obliques have many different functions, but for our purposes here, we’ll simply note that they flex your lumbar spine laterally; they also assist in rotation (waist hinge or angle depending how the rider activates) . As with most core muscles, they contract to harden the abdomen and support the spine during exercise. The obliques connect the side of your ribs to the outer part of your pelvis.


Yes, the lower back is part of your core, and if you neglect those muscles during training, riders pay a price.

The lower back muscles you need to think about regarding it as part of the core for riding/developmment of most sportsare your erector spinae. They’re the muscles just above your buttocks, on either side of your spine.

The erector spinae straighten the waist (along with your hamstrings). When you arch your lower back, you can feel your erector spinae working

Now this again is just a small example of what I am saying....it is the breakdown of the core into the muscle groups used not only in horse riding but most sports that rely on this kind of development like ski jumping/rowing/weight lifting/horse back riding

Hope that clears up any confusion about what I am refering to...the cores.....broken down....and each cores function when riding is how I generally confer to them since asI havementioned...the cores rarely need to all work together or they become what is considered in Dressage a hard/too much of an aid

 

[nieghham]

Neighham I would like to see some videos demonstrating what you mean, a picture paints a thousand words, a video even more so. Can you put on a youtube vid of you riding please?

I would love to bring a picture here but I can not seem to copy/paste the example I want

I do have videos of my horse working but you would not see anything....after all..if one saw the engagement of the cores....the rider is nakid

Is copy/paste not allowed here or is it just my marvolous computer skills stopping me

oh...and my daughter put up my other videos and pictures before heading back to school for me

 

[nieghham]

Neighham, I'm really glad you only gave me the quick explanation, if that was it!

"to keep the back naturally straight"... Umm, but the back is NOT naturally straight. It has, from the side, a totally natural S shape. Of course pronounced lordosis is not desirable, but anyone riding with a truly straight back will imho be very stiff and won't enjoy the ride, and nor will their horse! If I think of the best dressage riders I can picture, they stay upright with shoulders perfectly aligned above pelvis, but they do NOT straighten out their back, there is a natural curve inwards to the small of the back.

This is just symantics and something that is of course already known...the back being straight is a "term"to descibe/refers to the alignment of the back and is in many books regarding ridingso I do wonder about the above....a straight back is still a relaxed back it is free of roundness/collapses/leans is all...and yes....the top Dressageriders most certainly keep their back straight and free from all collapses by engaging the core

m_m, I'm with you on that! We have one core, made made up of lots of different muscle groups etc, but it's far easier to think of it at a single core. Of course it isn't difficult to tell someone to bring their waist or shoulders more above their hips, etc, but to think of more than one core is imho unnecessarily confusing!
If I think of different cores I will be imagining myself as a slinky up there...

See...I guess again it depends on the goal....if you are riding up the levels of Dressage it will not be one core long or there will be no international career competition....even within ones' own country they will be behind those who now employ the core aids as dictated by the movement required including allvpiaffe/passage/quick tempo changes

IMHO....the core should be broken down and discussed as the mucles are used for a better understanding on how to employ/engage/soften/bend and their part in the riding aid.....but that could bejust me and my detailed oriented mind is all

 

[nieghham]

I think what you have to say does indeed, have a lot of relevance and is accurate. The language, syntact and terms are somewhat confusing, however. So, this is where I was struggling.

I find that strange since these terms are very common both in the US/here and in Germany...I can not speak of the French system as I have enver trained in France or under that system....but the upper/lower/lateral cores are even discussed in Hunter Equitation and teh JumperMedal classes here

In the UK there is a growing interest in rider bio-mechanics, which you describe - Mary Waneless being one of them. Core stability is of course, very important in riding.

To me it is more than just core stability...it is the rider being able to break down and feel themself engaging the correct core muscle be it the lower group/upper core or a lateral core....or all together..oh...I Love Mary wan

However, as alluded to in my previous posts, although bio-mechanics is important it is only part of the whole. For me, how the rider delivers/applies the aids overrides what we do with our core.

not me,....to me.....the core is a very important part of that bio-mechanics in that as an example... the core carries the drop aids and the weight dictated in the drop by harnessing any extra kinetic energy the shoulders may create with their movement...the cores also harness and distribute kinetic energy just like the angles do

For example, if you have a really strong pull on the reins - it is this that your horse will object to and what you do with your core is pretty much irrelevant at this time!!

not at all for me...in fact..the cores are the stabilizers of the rider alignment and the strength needed to activate the lower back/all core muscles...if you are deep in the saddle and the horse is taking off...you engage the cores through breath to activate the core as a total and to back up the back/seat/ hand...this will stop a strong horse dead in its' tracks if the riders' back/cores are strong enough...the core is very relevant for me asan aid....in my video of the stallion in the canter....when the rider says he wants to do cross country ....what you do not know is that the horse is over riding the rider trying to take off...she is controlling him through core/back/seat activation so she can continue with the outside balancing rein while softening with the flexing rein inside...the legs are supporting as wellin whatever duty is being called on

As stated before, your horse must be trained to understand your seat means 'stops'. They will not 'naturally' stop from a change in seat posture like they do with the rein aids. Using the seat alone without pairing it with the pressure/release of the reins simply produces too much varied behavour.

Again I will agree to disagree...it is no different to teach the horse through the back over the rien since they do not know the rein since the rein is not natural eithe ranyway....sure the rein/leg can support the core/seat/back.
A young horse will feel the tension of a riders body and reacts to it.....this reaction is generally because as the rider tenses they brace the back/close the thigh stilting the horses forward movement....if they catch their breath (like a sharp sneeze) the horse stops...the rider has inadvertly given a very strong core to seat aid.....young horses I trained are all started off the core and in my experience seem to pick it up faster than those who just use rein/legs

That's why good old pony club instructors tell us to 'go into sitting trot before you pull on the reins to ask for the transition from trot to walk'! Its classical conditioning/secondary reinforcers in action!!!

to me that is only breezing over the mechanical and technical of the downward aid though....as you said...it is the details/fill in that count...timing of aids....sequence of aids...amount of weight in each aid/ect/ect/ect....the important details that most want to skip over or say is too hard...I find is the dividing line to those who go to the top and those who plateau out....but that is just my opnion but it seems tobewhat m,ostof the coaches I know have observed as well

To me the rider must sit first yes..then....they must feel the rythym (if inexperienced at feel) or the tempo (advanced riders).....once the feel is established and the rider can recognise the hoof fall on the back hind leg hitting the ground this is the time for any asking aid(s) to be engaged.....the rider feels the lift in their hips as well...when the hoof hits the ground the rider engages the cores into the back so the back slightly braces in thelower core supported muscle stilling this area without bracing the back iteself...at the exact same time the ouitside balancing rein is employed to maintain the tempo/balance/roundness timing with the inside footfall while the inside keepslateral/longitudinal flexion....if the horse blows through the first aid the rider can then engage the middle back and lateral cores...if this is ignored there are somany combinations to list but for me... it is all through muscle control fueled by the core/timing and execution...while this is not as in depth as a lesson I hope it is not confusing

How we apply our rein and leg aids overrides what happens with our seat. This is because to the horse, the rein aids (especially) and leg aids are more SALIENT - they are simply felt more - the horses mouth is incredibly sensitive.

on this we will have to agree to disagree too...I have seen the results this training has produced and you have seen yours...asI said...we simply have different systems in our methods is all....makes the world goaround


If all is well with how we [as riders] give the rein and leg aids - you can begin to train the seat aids and use your core. However, if there is a problem with rein/leg aids your seat aids will be ignored.

Then that is the fault of the individual coach who is not rounding our their program.....I have never had them things ignored/out...in fact...it all went hand'n'hand together when I was in training as well....you can not "forget"one if the coach is training correctly

When altering our seat we can indeed, activate lower/middle/higher/lateral - just as Mary Waneless states, so I do agree with you on that one. And, I also agree that one must have a flexible and yeilding back. Rigidity in the rider produces rigidity in the horse to the point of perhpas affecting the gate.

To me it is the encompassment of correct riding is the mechanical and technical science of riding....that is the term I take is used in the UK...equitation science....for future references I willtry to rememberthat...it is just that I have never labelled correct riding other than to say..yes...that is correct

The encompassing of correct rider includes alot...it includes the rider developing and understanding each and every muscle and their use...right down to the affect the indiividual employment of the baby finger knukle clossing can produce

Riders really do need to be able to weight any aidemployer/activator with as little or as much as they need for what is being ridden

Riders need to be able to indentify/control/employ/engage all angles and know their purposes and well as the angles hinge use

The seat....which is far more than just seat bone activation ...it needs to be broke down so it can be the lightest breath of an aid or sit so heavy you could break achair

to me...placment/employment/activation/application...all this is the total science both mechanical and technical....and like the horse....mechanical must meet technical for the movement/ride to be correct

 

[Dottie]

Well, i feel like i should never sit on my horse again now!

 

[FfionWinnie]

I would love to bring a picture here but I can not seem to copy/paste the example I want

I do have videos of my horse working but you would not see anything....after all..if one saw the engagement of the cores....the rider is nakid

Is copy/paste not allowed here or is it just my marvolous computer skills stopping me

oh...and my daughter put up my other videos and pictures before heading back to school for me

You need to upload the photo to Photobucket.com or similar then copy the one that starts [IMG and paste it in a reply. I'd still love to see the vids, are they on YouTube?

 

[nieghham]

Well, i feel like i should never sit on my horse again now!

But why....all riding is is a continuous learning curve and this is all part of it

Yes you do need to think....lol....just not overthinking it....the cores are just part of the curve is all....I have never understood why people think they will wipe out and go over or never get it.

 

[nieghham]

You need to upload the photo to Photobucket.com or similar then copy the one that starts [IMG and paste it in a reply. I'd still love to see the vids, are they on YouTube?

They are...I amgoing totry the share/copy/paste thing...if it does not work there are two videoson the thread I made....these videos show the good/bad/ugly of training the Dressage horse



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp8Rb49r5D0&feature=share&list=UUVQg7BQ8JAkHnBEWXbGwegg

^^This is my horse being very strong...forward is being controlledby the core HH so the reins are free for the balancing(outside) and flexing(inside)...you can see how forward and hard he is pulling on the bit by the "on the forehand" transition that happened at the last moment for a sec before the rider rebalances the longitudinal flexion...below we see the same discussion being done at the trot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TmZoh7iTeA&feature=share&list=UUVQg7BQ8JAkHnBEWXbGwegg

I do hope this one comes out...you see where Copper is crooked in the yield yet absolutely no bodymovment/hip drop/legmovemnt is seen from the rider...the correction is done through a slight drop aid in the lateral core to the seat bone

(hold on...this one is not copying...may have todo it in another post)

Here we see a loop being emplyed in the movement to soften the pollthrough longitudinal lmanipulation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFvMswQaxvg&feature=share&list=UUVQg7BQ8JAkHnBEWXbGwegg

Tempo training

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9k3zRTY20s&feature=share&list=UUVQg7BQ8JAkHnBEWXbGwegg

 

[ester]

Well, i feel like i should never sit on my horse again now!

I'm just pleased mine seems to know what I mean regardless

 

[ester]

errm when you say this:
the cores also harness and distribute kinetic energy just like the angles do


what is your definition of kinetic energy? Moving a muscle?

 

[ClobellsandBaubles]

There are the upper cores...lower cores and lateral cores.

please become a slack rag sitting on the chair slouching without exaggrating the slouch...thank you

The belly button is a good divider for the front cores....just sit on a chair and pull in the lower stomach in you know suck it in to make it smaller only....that is the lower core.

Now above the belllybutton from the diaphram....lift the breat plate up slightly until it lifts the body aligning the shoulder over the hips...though you may feel the back...it was the cores that just took the slouch/rounding out of the back by bringing the hip forward in the lift and the shoulders back as the spine straightens.

One lifts and hold the cores just enough to keep the back naturally straight allowing the shoulders to come back and drop into a natural place over the hips.
This is why the cores must be developed...this is thier "ready" without actually engaging them through breath

The lateral cores run along the side of the rider under the armpit to the hip...you often see a rider collapse these cores by collapsing the waist and dropping the shoulder to the hip leaning over and unbalancing the alignment of lateralweight placment

the lateral cores divide at the belly botton too...but they simply need to stretch away from each other so the rider can lengthen the body without causing any tension to the muscles along the spine

If a rider uses the shoulder blade to place the upper body....they are incorrectly engaging the backmuscles in this area...these muscles need to remain relaxed/supple so they do not send tension into the lower back/hips or into the elbow/hands via the shoulder.

Using the already developed cores with a developed but naturally placed but relaxed back keeps the riders longitudinal suppleness flexible enough to sit the gaits/movments of extentions without bouncing

One can activate the cores individually....the lateral cores help drop the kinetic energy of the drop/weight aids into the hip/seat bones for example...a "catch" of breath in the upper core while tightning the lower core is a halt aid to my horses....it is the activation of both upper/lower yes...but I can regulate my tempo by simple tightning my lower core and allowing the resistance to travel fromvmy spine over the horses where it is received as a resistance/downward aid command

This is just a quick explaination but I hope it helps some to stopany confusion

I see. I think it it a matter of terminology causing the confusion.

This is one reason I like pilates for riders actually as you strengthen all the muscles groups rather than just the rectus abdominus as many exercises tend to do.

(don't mean to be fussy but do you mean the inguinal ligament as I am unsure as how this relates to core stability?)

 

[Baggybreeches]

They are...I amgoing totry the share/copy/paste thing...if it does not work there are two videoson the thread I made....these videos show the good/bad/ugly of training the Dressage horse



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qp8Rb49r5D0&feature=share&list=UUVQg7BQ8JAkHnBEWXbGwegg

^^This is my horse being very strong...forward is being controlledby the core HH so the reins are free for the balancing(outside) and flexing(inside)...you can see how forward and hard he is pulling on the bit by the "on the forehand" transition that happened at the last moment for a sec before the rider rebalances the longitudinal flexion...below we see the same discussion being done at the trot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TmZoh7iTeA&feature=share&list=UUVQg7BQ8JAkHnBEWXbGwegg

I do hope this one comes out...you see where Copper is crooked in the yield yet absolutely no bodymovment/hip drop/legmovemnt is seen from the rider...the correction is done through a slight drop aid in the lateral core to the seat bone

(hold on...this one is not copying...may have todo it in another post)

Here we see a loop being emplyed in the movement to soften the pollthrough longitudinal lmanipulation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFvMswQaxvg&feature=share&list=UUVQg7BQ8JAkHnBEWXbGwegg

Tempo training

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9k3zRTY20s&feature=share&list=UUVQg7BQ8JAkHnBEWXbGwegg

I have just watched those videos and quite honestly if you are getting paid for that level of training, Good Luck to you.......

 

[nieghham]

I have just watched those videos and quite honestly if you are getting paid for that level of training, Good Luck to you.......

Why...it is a horse who is evading and being schooled out of it...he is unfitt and being conditioned at the same time.

If a person chooses to judge the ride without understanding the mechanics vrs technical or without asking instead making an assumption of what they think is happening/do not understand/has missing information through vocal explaination that is their choice...I personally find any misconception can be clearedupby asking/talking/discussing what is happening and why teh rider is taking the route they have.....those who choose not to I leave alone and do not push any ofmy views/points/opinions on...those people who are rude when stating thier opinion...I also do not bother with either.

BTW...for those who have not read prior....I was/am still injured...that is not me on the horse...Oh....and the horse in the video...has year end standings both locally and internationally that says the training works even if one does not agree with what is going on in the video....so if someone "would never ride with me ever"...that is their choice and I respect that...I really doubt it will affect my business or reputation

 

[Auslander]

I think that, for the sake of not letting this thread go off the rails even further, perhaps it would be nice if you told everyone who you are, allowed those who are interested to check out your credentials, and thus gave everyone the opportunity to make their own judgement. It's nothing personal, but there are a lot of new posters who arrive in a blaze of self-made glory, spout forth on every post, and then turn out to be frauds or charlatans - if you understand this, you'l understand why there are some people questioning you in a way that you don't find very comfortable. Transparency is the best way forward on here - it'll ease your passage immensely.

 

[Mongoose11]

The rider in one of the videos 'Karen Seegert' appears to have some credentials...

 

[Goldenstar]

Pass me that embroidery , anyone what to buy a good moving TB gelding.

 

[Auslander]

Pass me that embroidery , anyone what to buy a good moving TB gelding.

Swap you for an aging PSG horse with questionable legs, and a warped sense of humour?

 

[mik]

I am not swapping my retired sj with 3 good legs, his leg yield is amazing, especially when he spies a plastic bag in the hedge.

 

[Goldenstar]

No I have changed my mind about selling I am busy fixing a carrot to the end of a broom shank.

 

[Goldenstar]

OP, you still with us ?
Has any of this helped ?