Hmm. I do wish HHO wouldn't ...

benson21 said:
There are many valid reasons to wear a hat, I am interested to know from the non hat wearers, why dont you wear a hat? What is your reason not to wear one? Personally I cant think of any reasons not to wear one!
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But honestly why is that any of your business? I wouldn't dream of wading in and asking fat riders why they continue to ride when they are so overweight, but apparently a grown adult who choses not to wear a hat is fair game - how?
 
Im sure H&H aren't going to turn down money due to it maybe setting a bad example.

It's well publicised the benefits of wearing a hat and if some daft arse is not going to wear one because they saw someone on the internet not wearing one then thats just natural seleciton in process!
 
Do those who feel strongly that a hat should be worn in pictures, feel it should be worn/ shown when the horse is being handled from the ground?
 
RunToEarth said:
I think there is every shade of grey between riding without a hat on and shooting up Heroin, but that is HHO for you.

I am not going to stop going to the pub on a Friday evening in fear of some other person's child seeing me and thinking it is a good idea to have a large Pinot after work - I still maintain that it isn't my job to become a role model for other people's children.
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If you read my posts you will see I have said I wouldn't expect anyone not to do what they want in their personal time. However, adverts placed on or by the media/magazines etc IMO should not allow it. There is a watershed on tv, for the same reason - we don't want kids seeing explicit things as it's not the done thing - it's not a good example to set. Therefore IMO (and that's all it is - my opinion), it should be the same with regards ads placed in magazines/on forums.

I have said numerous times now that I don't care what people decide to do with their own lives. I am talking about media and adverts.
 
RunToEarth said:
But honestly why is that any of your business? I wouldn't dream of wading in and asking fat riders why they continue to ride when they are so overweight, but apparently a grown adult who choses not to wear a hat is fair game - how?
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Its just a question!!! Absolutely none of my business, but I thought this was a discussion!! Sorry!!
 
Oh blimey, looks like one of those debates have started. To be honest I am very pro wearing a riding hat, its a risk I personally will not take. I have even put my riding hat on to lunge horses as well, particularily my daughter's mare who is known to like a buck and will kick out in excitement when being lunged. I used to cringe at a pair of teenagers on our yard, who both had two very nice warmbloods, who habitually rode without hats in the arena. I had a chat with the mother who was and is a friend of mind and she said that they knew their horses were safe and why was I worrying. All it would take is for one of those horses to spook and for one of the children to bang their heads on the arena fence and bingo, bad head injury. Its precisely none of my business if people wear a hat or not, but I choose to do it and to be fair nobody on our yard takes that level of risk now anyway.

As for the obesity thing, well thats another subject entirely. Obesity is a very subjective issue, and how do you class a person as obese. I own a 14.3 mw cob, who has a lot of bone and is very well set up with a leg in each corner. At 5 foot 6 (just) I was technically obese at nearly 15 stones, but he carried me without any issues and never struggled with me. As I did carry the fat well, I just looked overweight, although my breeches were a size 20. As I weigh now closer to 11 and a half stone and wear size 14 breeches now, I personally still think I look a bit lardy and could possibly be seen as obese to some people - I know I look a dam sight better and I am sure my horse agrees, but its subjective all the same.
 
Actually, there is a clinical definition of obese, and overweight, and there is a table of ideal weight ranges and fat-to-muscle ratios, but that's another subject entirely.
 
While I would prefer not to see adverts with hatless riders, I don't think there needs to be a ban. I don't know a single child who rides without a hat, I've never even heard one complain about it. In the UK most professional riders wear hard hats in public when a child is most likely to see them - all showjumpers and eventers do, and you even see a lot of dressage riders wearing them now. A good example is definitely set.

I do keep seeing pictures on fb of someone I know riding without a hat. While normally I would just think "oo that's a bit silly" I was very shocked as the horses the person is riding haven't yet been broken - so they are backing young horses hatless. They also jump and hack very badly behaved horses hatless, all while being a parent. Not something I can even vaguely understand personally, and there are several comments on the pictures. I didn't comment, as ultimately it is none of my business. But I do think they are being unnecessarily reckless.
 
I have personally known two people who ended up brain damaged from HANDLING horses. And yet I don't wear a hat to handle my horse or the ones at the yard I work at (unless something is a known sod). And I'd bet most of you wouldn't. So why is riding without one different? You are just as likely if not more to get hurt handling a horse than falling off one (my horse related injuries are pretty evenly split and that was with me working schooling naughty ponies!).

I do always wear a hat to ride (bar a few times when I've been asked to just quickly feel a new saddle or something) however I don't when cycling. I have even fallen off my bike without a helmet, but thankfully I am practiced at falling off and know how to roll to protect my head. I've ended up with broken limbs instead, but not head damage.

So why can it not just be accepted that if an adult decides the perceived risk is small enough then they can do as they please?

I also think it depends on discipline. Western, stock or side saddles are reasonably hard to fall out of compared to English astride saddles, so this brings the risk factor down, as would having a very safe horse or a lot of skill. OF COURSE there will always be a risk, but if I am allowed to make the decision to not wear a body protector, why shouldn't I be allowed to not wear a hat?

Hats are very hot on hot days, the chin straps can rub when you sweat, they make the heaviest part of your body even heavier, and if you have an odd shaped head they can be uncomfortable or easily fitted too loose to be useful. If riding before work, they leave your head and hair sweaty, and if you are busy and just want a quick sit on a horse for whatever reason then getting a hat can take forever. Compared to being brain dead, they aren't excuses - however when you feel the risk of that is negligible then those reasons have more worth.
 
When I was young I wanted to ride without a hat and my sister just said that if I didn't wear a hat and then fall off, then I might end up stupid for the rest of my life. Not very PC, but the words stuck in my mind.

Regarding handling - it is true that there is as much danger when handling horses from the ground. When the Jockey Club did a survey they found there were more head injuries for the Starting Gate handlers than jockeys - hence all the handlers wear hard hats now. I believe that the BHS training establishments request that people handling horses, and certainly when lunging, wear hard hats and gloves. The possible consequences of not and getting a kick on the head were in last week's H & H.
 
Am not going to trawl through it!

HH used to put a disclaimer on the classified section saying hats should be worn or am I dreaming that? Or was it just on pics inside the magazine?

HH SHOULD put a disclaimer on. If someone is advertising a horse then yes hat should be worn full stop and HH need to state that in their advert terms or would they now show a photo of someone not holding the wheel to their lorry in the classifieds saying 'easy drive'?

I thought HH did cut off heads though? Maybe the head cutter offer is on holiday this week?
 
foraday said:
Am not going to trawl through it!

HH used to put a disclaimer on the classified section saying hats should be worn or am I dreaming that? Or was it just on pics inside the magazine?

HH SHOULD put a disclaimer on. If someone is advertising a horse then yes hat should be worn full stop and HH need to state that in their advert terms or would they now show a photo of someone not holding the wheel to their lorry in the classifieds saying 'easy drive'?

I thought HH did cut off heads though? Maybe the head cutter offer is on holiday this week?
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More daft comparisons :)

A person riding a horse without wearing a hat is no more likely to fall off than one who is.

A person driving a lorry without holding onto the wheel is far more likely to crash than one who is.

I can't see a single reason why hho should censor adverts from adults doing something which is not offensive at any time of day, and also perfectly legal.

PS I never ride without a hat but it's no one else's business but mine!
 
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I think it's to say that the horse has been so well schooled that they don't need a hat. At our RS they wear hats when handling horses at all times. Not interested in anyone riding a horse without a hat. And as for the situation and how often you ride etc its irrelevant as if we knew when we were going to hit our heads we would only have to wear them on the day.
 
Having held a persons head with brains leaking over my hands I can honestly say I never ride or let anyone else ride my horses without a hat but just as I would uphold anyone rights not to have safety gear I would always recommend that they do.
It is a civil liberty to chose if that choice if dangerous and foolhardy so be it but it is there right to make that choice. Lots of battles have been fought over the generations to give people the freedom to chose
I do however have to say for once I feel Moomin1 is also correct hatless is not a good choice of photograph to advertise in a public place if that photograph can be seen by vulnerable impressionable children.
Mind you again I cannot see how it is a factor when viewing a horse you either go and like the horse or you don't like it on seeing it in the flesh there is far to much emphasis on pictures when deciding which horse to view I much preferred it when the only adverts for horses was a few lines in a newspaper and you had to talk to the seller and actually meet the animal without discounting it out of hand.
 
It isn't so much "vulnerable impressionable children" as "fashion." It is seen as cool not to wear a hat, like High Viz I think. For adults, as well as children. Hence the above threads when the "its my choice" - why would any sane person put themselves 5 feet up from the ground on a moving, thinking animal and think it is a good idea to have a bare head?
 
Should the H&H then stop printing pictures of the Queen riding in her headscarf?

I don't always wear a hat at home. It depends upon what I am doing. If I am just doing a wee bit of walk and trot work on a horse in regular work as a quiet day then I don't wear one. Breakers, Jumping, fresh horses and hacking out I always wear one. My head, my choice. I chose not to wear a body protector on my own horses. As yet I have never had a fall or injury where they would have saved me as I have a talent for landing on my feet or on my backside (as I did today at work!)

Personally I wouldn't ever advertise a horse or pony or have a sales video taken without a hat on.
 
No judgement on others and it doesn't bother me when I see adverts of other people not wearing them (but then I worked in the US and NZ when I was the only person that wore one!). I will say though that I am VERY happy that this happened to my helmet and not my skull last Thursday!
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The crack is 3-4 inches long and goes right through the shell. One week on and I still have headaches, can't focus, and have general fuzzy head!
 
I'm one who will never ride without a hat though did once inadvertently get on without one once as completely forgot fortunately someone noticed before I'd finished getting everything adjusted!

If I liked the horse it probably wouldn't put me off though if it's a dealer just looks a bit unprofessional so would wonder what their standards are.

I had to sit on my hands twice recently as on fb someone firstly put a picture of themself lying on their pony facing it's tail with no bridle etc while pony was loose in the field and they had no hat. Me being old etc nearly put what happens if it runs off. Next week we get photo of them standing on the pony's back with no hat in bare feet.... again sat on hands v hard!
 
me&Harvey said:
I had to sit on my hands twice recently as on fb someone firstly put a picture of themself lying on their pony facing it's tail with no bridle etc while pony was loose in the field and they had no hat. Me being old etc nearly put what happens if it runs off. Next week we get photo of them standing on the pony's back with no hat in bare feet.... again sat on hands v hard!
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Falling off whilst doing daft things is part of being a kid and learning about riding; vaulters don't wear helmets, and stand on horses backs, and tumble off regularly. One of the first things I was taught was how to fall properly, does anybody teach this today?
 
I personally don't like seeing people without hats on or even lunging horses as have seen first hand how devastating head injuries can be (so why not try to prevent them).
However, if people are informed and they are aware of the risks so be it. Remember a famous drugs minster being sacked for saying horse riding was more dangerous than ecstasy?! Well he was right and how many of is would feel 100% safe doing that? The only point I would like to make to them if if you were riding without a hat and ended up injured or disabled what would your loved ones and horse think? Our decisions have the ability to change other peoples lives too.
 
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Deseado said:
Falling off whilst doing daft things is part of being a kid and learning about riding; vaulters don't wear helmets, and stand on horses backs, and tumble off regularly. One of the first things I was taught was how to fall properly, does anybody teach this today?
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I was taught to fall properly.

To whoever said why would you get on such large animal with a bare head - I get in my car every day with no hard hat. In fact, when I was leaning to drive I regularly commented to my mum that I felt less safe driving a car than riding my horse - and it felt weird not having my hat on! It just depends what your perception of risk is.

I roller blade regularly with no helmet or pads on, especially if the conditions are good. However if I was to play roller derby or something where I was more likely to get hurt, I'd wear helmet and pads. I feel the same about horses - decide when your risks are higher and act appropriately.

I only wear my bp when I judge it necessary - yet it could protect me all the time. I only wear hi viz when I am going to be in traffic. Why is a hat so unacceptable to be without?

I have had my life saved by my hat, so I heartily approve of them (I was hospitalised having brain scans and everything, hat cracked in two after meeting a drystone wall head first from a gallop), but I still think it's about judging risk. We all used to ride hatless, and the cavalry, the hunts, the day to day people who relied on horses for transport on the whole got on fine.
 
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