Hobbles while travelling

EmmaB

EmmaB

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Went to take my 4yo welsh to a show today and as soon as we tried to close him in the box he went mad, tearing over the breast bar and wouldn't calm down unless we were standing with him. It's a rear facing 3.5, he had a pony in with him so not alone, he travelled before ok (tried to get feet up but wasn't stressed out) he does other things alone (hacks/stables), I think he just freaked at the thought of us leaving, he loves people.

We tried a few times, and cross tied him but he still got up and tried to scramble over, so we had to get him off as soon as he calmed down, luckily my friends dad managed to haul him back otherwise I really think he would have got over.

I just had a look for some hobbles but they seem to be to hobble the front or backs together. Wouldn't he still be able to get his front legs up even if they were tied, do they do hobbles from front to back legs? I was thinking crossed onto opposite legs?

Any experiences would be really helpful! It's not my lorry so I can't put up a grill or anything to block the jockey area off.
 
I'd be very wary of hobbles... but I've never used them (except on cows). I would worry he wouldn't be able to balance himself whilst travelling, especially if hobbled front to back? I don't really know though, be interesting to see if anyone has used them and what their experiences have been.
 
Yeah I just want to hear experiences really and if they have worked for others, I'm not going to just go and chuck some on him, but it was scary seeing him try to climb over the bar so I really don't want a repeat of it!

I've had a quick look at some (the ones that just go on the front or back) and they look long enough that they could still move their legs apart, just not flail them around?
 
I would not risk it, I would travel with him, but do a few short runs see if he settles a bit.
They must be able to move feet in order to balance, this is counter intuitive.
 
Hobbles for traveling are a contentious issues and take careful thought and preparation if you are going to try them. But they are NOT - repeat NOT - suitable for a situation where a horse is panicking or distressed by travelling. I've seen them work best for horses that are basically good travellers but learn to kick or strike the wall when the box is stationary - the noise gives them a positive feedback loop - and all other avenues are expended. They are not a "go to" option because there is risk in both putting and having them on.

Your pony sounds scared or uncomfortable or both. You said it yourself he in young and upset. How would tying his legs together make him more comfortable or less scared?

As to back to front hobbles, leaving out the concerns about how the horse would balance, how would you load the horse? They are used in very specific circumstances by VERY experienced people, with the horse under supervision, to restrain horses when absolutely necessary, such as live cover breeding. You don't put them on and walk away.
 
I'm pretty sure you aren't supposed to be in a box/trailer while travelling though, and if he decided to try and climb over Te bar while I was in there I wouldn't be able to get out! And I certainly couldn't push him back by myself. I'm really wary of putting him back in there now, he was fine to load, fine to shut partition and doors, it was only as I was about to leave the jockey door, as if he didn't want to be alone (although he had another pony).

I'm going to start leaving him stabled and tied on the yard completely alone, no horses or humans, I will go and poo pick or something, so he gets used to not being able to see anyone at all, but in everything else he does he's super chilled out so I can't see what the problem is!
 
TarrSteps said:
Hobbles for traveling are a contentious issues and take careful thought and preparation if you are going to try them. But they are NOT - repeat NOT - suitable for a situation where a horse is panicking or distressed by travelling. I've seen them work best for horses that are basically good travellers but learn to kick or strike the wall when the box is stationary - the noise gives them a positive feedback loop - and all other avenues are expended. They are not a "go to" option because there is risk in both putting and having them on.

Your pony sounds scared or uncomfortable or both. You said it yourself he in young and upset. How would tying his legs together make him more comfortable or less scared?

As to back to front hobbles, leaving out the concerns about how the horse would balance, how would you load the horse? They are used in very specific circumstances by VERY experienced people, with the horse under supervision, to restrain horses when absolutely necessary, such as live cover breeding. You don't put them on and walk away.
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I didn't say I was going to put tem and walk away? I said I wasn't going to just put them on!

I don't understand why he is scared though, as soon as we pushed him back over the bar and I was stood with him, he was fine. He doesn't want me to leave but I don't know why this scares him when he is fine to do everything else alone..
 
EmmaB said:
I'm going to start leaving him stabled and tied on the yard completely alone, no horses or humans, I will go and poo pick or something, so he gets used to not being able to see anyone at all, but in everything else he does he's super chilled out so I can't see what the problem is!
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This is a sensible plan. I'm with the others in that hobbles would be a bad idea for your lad, and would likely panic him more. You could end up with a seriously injured horse, it just isn't worth it.

Maybe he's claustrophobic in the 3.5T? I've known of quite a few horses jump the breast bar in one. After you've done more groundwork, try him in a bigger lorry and see if he's happier.
 
Thanks tiddlypom, yeah I just don't want him hurt, which is why I'm reluctant to put him back in there after today :(

I'll see how he gets on with the stabling and being tied up, he hasn't been bothered much previously but I suppose it isn't often that I bring him in and leave him totally alone for a length of time.

I've heard of quite a few try to get over them too but it's normally horses that are bad travellers or stressy anyway, he travelled fine before and had no bad experience! I think the 3.5s should have a better design, a full wall or something, or an easy system to drop the breast bar if they get over, we were looking at the lorry after it happened and if a horse got over there is no way to get them out at all with ouch dismantling the breast bar and wall which would take ages and be dangerous if a horse was thrashing around on it!
 
I had one who did this, would go crazy as soon as I went to leave the trailer once closed up. I spent a lot of time sorting it out! Mine actually went over the bar completely a few times. I practiced by staying in with him and going round the field, as he would sometimes do it while travelling too. I'd also feed him in the trailer most days with all doors open and slowly try to hide round the corner a bit more / longer each time so he got used to me not being there, then went on to putting one door up etc. Took a lot of effort but he was much better after it all. He did still do it travelling occassionally if you had to come to a stand still for too long, he'd just rear up and jump the breast bar. Luckily he knew he was in trouble and would stand very quietly to be detangled. Bloody dangerous though with a chunky 15.2hh Welsh Cob! So practice IMO will help. I would never ever use hobbles, what happened if he reared up and got the hobble bit stuck on something? I also dont think it would help as they can still rear in them?

Mine was also like yours - he'd get stressy if he was left, even if I just left the stable for a second to go next door to the tack room, he'd start crashing about. To be honest, he was always like this, I think its a lot to do with their "childhood", I know mine was kept on his own as a 2yo and I think thats what messed him up and caused these issues.
 
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Thanks, magicmelon that's really helpful, shame it's not my box so I can't so it as much as I'd like but I'm sure my friend would bring it into the field to let me feed him on it and get him used to being on it. He's fine if I leave him on the yard or stable though, he will sort of look where I am but doesn't seem stressed, it was just when I was leaving him on the box. He didn't do it before though, but my friend said maybe it's because he knows me better now, I've had him longer, so maybe before he didn't care that I left because he didn't know me as well?

He's so good with everything else, I really hope we can get this sorted!
 
EmmaB said:
I didn't say I was going to put tem and walk away? I said I wasn't going to just put them on!

I don't understand why he is scared though, as soon as we pushed him back over the bar and I was stood with him, he was fine. He doesn't want me to leave but I don't know why this scares him when he is fine to do everything else alone..
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But you would have to leave him on the box and my point is if he is already stressed by you leaving, leaving him hobbled is MORE stressful, not less. He doesn't want you to leave because he doesn't want to be left alone when he's scared - being alone is the most scary thing for horses as it taps into all sorts of instinctual responses. Also, if he did get hung up or hurt you would have no way of getting the hobbles off! Sorry if you feel I overreacted but the idea sounded like a trainwreck.

Also, from his point of view, he got upset, threw a paddy, got stuck and you came back to rescue him! Nothing you could have done differently but confirmed for him that bad things happen when you go and it gets better when you come back. Now you have to "untrain" that response in him that, to be fair, might never have occurred to him before that day.

Anyway, you seem to have hit on a plan so good stuff. Leaving him completely alone, not able to see you, if probably a good thing to practice. If you can practice in the box, then that is ideal and may be necessary, even if you have to pay for some schooling trips. I agree some of those small boxes are very "un horse-friendly". I quite often get called to loading problems that started when a horse that was previously fine took exception to travelling in one! But if that's what you've got, that's what you have to work with.
 
Don't under estimate the influence the design of the box might have. Some of the most seasoned travellers will react with panic or stress when put in a box they don't like.

If it is the design, you can either work to desensitise him inside it, or use another vehicle, which ever is more practical for you.
I'm a pretty laid back passenger on planes, they don't bother me, but one plane had such little leg room and was so badly designed, that I felt an intense rising panic and nearly walked out before take off. If I could feel as strongly as that, I'm not surprised a horse, without any autonomy, might object strongly.
 
Sorry Tarrsteps I see your point, just wanted to make sure no one thought id be dragging him on the box hobbled and leaving him to it lol!

This is the only transport I have access to so he's going to have to get used to it! I think he would have been fine in my old box, 3.5 but herringbone, but it was old and I couldn't afford to keep it on the road. I wish they made newer ones like that, he would have had a solid wall in front of him and the partitions were shaped to head height, not sure why they don't make them like that now!
 
Anti weave bars on the lorry so he cant fit over the front bar. Or use a lorry with a flat wall such as a 7.5t.
if he gets over the bar he could easily fatally injury himself.
Travelling in with horse is illegal as far as I know and if he came over into the groom area you could be killed.
 
amandaco2 said:
Anti weave bars on the lorry so he cant fit over the front bar. Or use a lorry with a flat wall such as a 7.5t.
if he gets over the bar he could easily fatally injury himself.
Travelling in with horse is illegal as far as I know and if he came over into the groom area you could be killed.
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Already said it's not my lorry so can't put up grill and don't have another lorry to use. But yes I'm definitley not taking the advice of travelling inside!

Just left him alone tied up for a while and he seemed fine just neighed a few times! So annoying, really wanted to start getting him out and about!
 
EmmaB said:
I think the 3.5s should have a better design, a full wall or something, or an easy system to drop the breast bar if they get over, we were looking at the lorry after it happened and if a horse got over there is no way to get them out at all with ouch dismantling the breast bar and wall which would take ages and be dangerous if a horse was thrashing around on it!
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Most GOOD builders DO havbe either collapsable breast bar, full wall, or a climb board that can be put in if required. Perhaps you should look down these avenues?
As Tarrsteps has said above, there is no way I would use hobbles on a panicking animal. I have used them in the past, for something that bangs badly (being badly behaved) but would never ever use them on a nervous/wrried horse/pony.
You also should never use service hobbles anywhere except on soft ground, and then with someone experienced in their use. I have seen (and heard it!) a mare have a leg broken when these were used incorrectly.

Try getting a climb board as these can be retro fitted, or perhaps getting a diferent box to borrow with full partitioning for some training? :)
 
TarrSteps said:
But they are NOT - repeat NOT - suitable for a situation where a horse is panicking or distressed by travelling. I've seen them work best for horses that are basically good travellers but learn to kick or strike the wall when the box is stationary
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Agreed and agreed!

Fig is an impatient little wotsit. Having raced in 3 different continents he is well used to traveling. He kicks and paws and digs as soon as he is on, despite loading 100% fine each and every time. He has put his feet through the back of the lorry, and was incredibly lucky to walk away with not even a scratch, so on the hobbles went.

He is not panicked in the slightest, and stops as soon as you appear. But starts as soon as you turn your back!!!!

We designed our 3.5t with safety in mind - the living at the back is completely closed off from the horse bit, so no possible chance of a horse attempting escape. Thankfully, apart from Figs Mr Impatient moments, ours are very good travelers.
 
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