Hock and Sacro-iliac Problems

[Courbette]

Earlier this year my share horse was treated for gastric ulcers. He had had a few issues with soundness in the run up to being scoped and while at the vet he was also diagnosed as having Hock and Sacro-iliac Problems. He had some treatment that required him to be injected behind and apparently it has lessened the feeling in his hind legs. This will last him a couple of years. Since the procedure I have noticed he has developed two quite obvious bumps either side of his spine on his croup which I assume are a result of this.

Firstly does anybody have a more compressive idea of what his treatment may have entailed? I know a it's a big ask when I don't have more details Secondly I know I might be asking a bit much here since I don't fully understand what he had done but in procedures such as this if the mechanics of the leg may have caused the lameness (he doesn't move straight behind) is this more a covering up of the symptoms and how ethical is this? He is a veteran being aimed at his first season hunting (not with me) and I have concerns about how likely he is to stay sound.

Sorry this is so vague but I haven't been able to get more details from his owner as of yet.

 

[AmyMay]

Following.

 

[ycbm]

Are the bumps you are talking about his tubera sacrale? The points of bone that are usually the highest bit of the bum. If so, 'raised' tubera sacrale, especially if one is higher than the other, is a symptom of sacroiliac strain. My TB came to me with them raised and he is very weak through his SI region.

I can't think of any injections that would result in loss of feeling in the hind feet for two years. If he has SI and hock issues, I would possibly expect the SI joint to have been treated on each side with an injection of steroids, and both hocks. . There is anaesthetic in these injections, but it wears off in days.

Think we need more specific information, sorry.

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[Courbette]

Are the bumps you are talking about his tubera sacrale? The points of bone that are usually the highest bit of the bum. If so, 'raised' tubera sacrale, especially if one is higher than the other, is a symptom of sacroiliac strain. My TB came to me with them raised and he is very weak through his SI region.

I can't think of any injections that would result in loss of feeling in the hind feet for two years. If he has SI and hock issues, I would possibly expect the SI joint to have been treated on each side with an injection of steroids, and both hocks. . There is anaesthetic in these injections, but it wears off in days.

Think we need more specific information, sorry.

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Ah just googled and it is his tubera sacrale that I have noticed. They do seem quite raised, I'll check them and see how even they are. What symptoms would you normally associate with a horse thats weak in this area?

I'm struggling with the specifics as I got quite a vague description from his owner. I've been told he can't feel pain anymore in his legs, not feet and that it should last a year possibly two.

 

[ycbm]

Ah just googled and it is his tubera sacrale that I have noticed. They do seem quite raised, I'll check them and see how even they are. What symptoms would you normally associate with a horse thats weak in this area?

Loss of fluency on bends in deep surfaces is the main one mine shows. Symptoms mine doesn't show are bunny hopping behind in canter, changing legs in canter, difficulty in general when you place a lot more weight into one hind leg, like at the canter strike off. Mine doesn't jump but I would expect it to cause resistance problems in a jumper. Horses with weak (not actively damaged) SI joints generally need to be kept working to keep up the muscle strength around the joint.

I'm struggling with the specifics as I got quite a vague description from his owner. I've been told he can't feel pain anymore in his legs, not feet and that it should last a year possibly two.

This makes no sense to me unless the horse has been denerved. That would be hoped to be permanent but can regrow in that sort of timescale. Denerving the hind feet would be very unusual. In the hind legs it's much more common to denerve the proximal suspensory ligament, just below the hock, which wouldn't numb the feet.

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[Courbette]

This makes no sense to me unless the horse has been denerved. That would be hoped to be permanent but can regrow in that sort of timescale. Denerving the hind feet would be very unusual. In the hind legs it's much more common to denerve the proximal suspensory ligament, just below the hock, which wouldn't numb the feet.

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Thanks! I think you've nudged me in the right direction. I think he has been denerved. He hasn't had anything done to his feet that I know of, just the leg. Not entirely sure I'm comfortable with this as a procedure but I'll have a read up on it to make sure I'm well informed of any extra needs he may have going forwards.

Interesting he did have issues with his canter but only in the menage so I assumed this was an issue with his schooling rather than a physical issue.

 

[Barton Bounty]

Depending on how bad the condition is? I had one mare that could no longer be ridden due to sacroiliac pain and then again i went onto buy a gelding that had been treated with the best of treatment for suspensory ligament damage and he was a fab horse for a good few years, all depends if he can cope with the discipline he is being asked of. Mine was just a hack so it was all good.

 

[Birker2020]

He had some treatment that required him to be injected behind and apparently it has lessened the feeling in his hind legs. This will last him a couple of years.

It could be that the horse has undergone a treatment called chemical arthodesis which in short is injecting a non painful shot of alcohol (ethanol) into the hock joint to encourage cartilage and nerve destruction and increase the speed of fusion. Once fusion has been achieved the horse is no longer lame. However this lasts for the horses lifetime, it is not something that would wear off after a couple of years.

This is a link https://www.horseandrideruk.com/expert-advice/articles/give-it-a-shot/ Contrary to this article and known to a lot of the veterinary profession since the article was written, fusion can actually take up to 18 months to take place and has taken nearly this length of time for a couple of horses that I personally know who have had this procedure done. Natural fusion is very hit and miss and often doesn't take place at all which is why as a last resort many people go for chemical arthrodesis which has considerably improved since it was first pioneered in 2005. At first the chemicals used were caustic and caused a lot of pain, but it isn't thought that injecting ethanol is a painful procedure.. It actually has a high success rate (75-85%).

 

[Melody Grey]

Is the horse totally sound now OP? On paper, sending a veteran out for its first seasons hunting with known hock and SI issues sounds like asking for trouble, I'd worry about how resolved these issues are? I'd also be thinking about fitness level (in any veteran) and whether current workload is comparable with said hunting?

 

[Courbette]

Is the horse totally sound now OP? On paper, sending a veteran out for its first seasons hunting with known hock and SI issues sounds like asking for trouble, I'd worry about how resolved these issues are? I'd also be thinking about fitness level (in any veteran) and whether current workload is comparable with said hunting?

This is my concern too. I have only done light hacking with him since his procedure and he appears to be sound but my understanding is hind leg lameness can be difficult to detect. So far so good but I'm still being cautious in my approach to his ridden work.

My gut feeling is hunting is not an ideal activity for him however I only share him so I have no say in what he does outside of his time with me. I adore him and think he has too many red flags to risk such a strenuous activity.

 

[Melody Grey]

I’m not sure whether you’re thinking full on hunting or cubbing? Could it be that the owner means hunt rides/ hound exercise (which can be less intense and demanding- sometimes!)

Ground considerations are also be worth mentioning- the going can be very unforgiving out hunting if it’s boggy and wet plus potentially a lot of trotting (and faster 😬) on the road. I personally wouldn’t start an older horse out hunting- different if it’s hunted for years and has become older and still sound though.

Is the owner likely to be receptive to your concerns?

 

[be positive]

This is my concern too. I have only done light hacking with him since his procedure and he appears to be sound but my understanding is hind leg lameness can be difficult to detect. So far so good but I'm still being cautious in my approach to his ridden work.

My gut feeling is hunting is not an ideal activity for him however I only share him so I have no say in what he does outside of his time with me. I adore him and think he has too many red flags to risk such a strenuous activity.

If he is only doing light hacking, maybe someone else is doing more?, then he will need to be increasing his workload fairly rapidly if the poor thing has any chance of being fit enough to hunt this season, that is without the soundness/ age issues being taken into consideration.
As you only share you may have no real say but I think you need to have a proper chat to the owner and find out what is being planned because it does have an effect on your use of him, if he breaks down no doubt they will still expect your weekly cash injection and for you to do your days taking care of him.

 

[Courbette]

I think he is being aimed at actual hunting. This has been helpful as it has reinforced my own thoughts. I will have a chat with his owner but I suspect she has her heart set on it. I live in an area where hunting seems to be particularly popular but it has been a bit of an eye opener as to what people believe are appropriate fitness levels. I'm still a bit shell shocked this is being considered to be honest.