Home barefoot rehab support for someone please

[ester]

We didn't trim but measured well enough and that was for a close fitting boot type, any others would be more generous with fit and plenty about second hand if you need to change them again shortly down the line. You arent going be on long term boots for certain until at least the whole hoof wall has grown down, unless you Re frank

 

[PorkChop]

Can you leave her with the run of the stable area day and night? If you can, I would, and put her hay in four corners so she moves as much as possible. Mine are in a barn at night with that arrangement and watching them on camera they probably walk a couple of miles overnight between one rack and another.

Only in the day, as the other horses come in at night. Problem is, she is on severe rations so the hay in four corners won't work because she will scoff it and then stand and sleep!

 

[PorkChop]

We didn't trim but measured well enough and that was for a close fitting boot type, any others would be more generous with fit and plenty about second hand if you need to change them again shortly down the line. You arent going be on long term boots for certain until at least the whole hoof wall has grown down, unless you Re frank

Thank you, will measure her feet on Monday once the shoes are off.

 

[PorkChop]

I was told to leave my boys feet for a good few weeks before the first trim and then measure for boots ... I never have although Im wobling about the whole BF thing at the moment so think boots should be brought before i go back to shoes!

Thank you, problem is knowing which is the right thing to do!

 

[PorkChop]

This is worth a read http://www.hoofrehab.com/BootArticle.htm as also are the rest of Pete's articles. I have used boots to support and protect newly bare feet, with our without pads, and in our case they were the one most important tool in keeping my horse comfortable enough to continue and achieve healthy bare feet. If the ground gets frozen they will enable you to keep on exercising and movement is important in hoof rehabilitation. Not to mention cheaper than modifying the surface itself!
It is worth talking to the boot specialist at one of the sites that sell them - Carolyn at The Urban Horse was my helpful go to person but there are plenty of others. Explain what you want them for, and they will advise on the best fit.

Thank you, will have a read later

 

[PorkChop]

The thing is, hooves should be measured freshly trimmed to ascertain the size required for boots, and now most advice is not to trim/minimal trim when the shoes come off.

I've never used boots for my ponies (though I do have three pairs at home for "just in case" moments) For me there is still a lot to be improved in boots before they cam be a good replacement for shoes (if you use shoes).

Thank you, I think I will need to get some incase for early on, and then sell and buy as we go along.

 

[PorkChop]

A wee update

Shoes are off, my farrier appears to be pretty pro barefoot and has taken several long term lame horses barefoot with success, so that is great. He agrees that bars and wedges will not address the problem. So he has given me some good advice and we will adjust as necessary throughout the winter.

So pleased he is on board, which is lucky as I have had no reply from the barefoot trimmer.

I have uncovered half of her stable back to the concrete so that she has to pad about on it when she is in, my stables are massive so plenty of room to do this.

So we shall start walking on tarmac today, is there a limit to how much I should do?

 

[ycbm]

Fantastic. What a great farrier.

Start with ten minutes, and if she's happy with that and the same tomorrow, add ten minutes and stick on twenty for a week. If everything is still ok, increase to half an hour and stay there for a week. Then go to 45 minutes for a week and then an hour, then do as much as you feel able to. That would be my starting point.

Please don't get despondent if she is less comfortable in a few weeks time than she is today. It's very common, and it will pass.

 

[PorkChop]

Ooops, just got back in for our morning walk and read your recommendation

I took her out for 45 minutes, planning on taking her to the indoor tonight to do some some free lunging long and low because if she is having exercise I need to address her back issues at the same time as transitioning to no shoes.

Are you saying that I should cut the road walking back? On the way home she was already placing her front feet flatter on the road, happy over small stony bits, should I prepare myself for her to be sore tomorrow?

 

[ycbm]

I was going to recommend an hour but thought I should err on the side of caution

If she's fine tomorrow, carry on!

 

[PorkChop]

I was going to recommend an hour but thought I should err on the side of caution

If she's fine tomorrow, carry on!

Wah! Super, will do as much as she is comfortable with I intend to use Red Horse Hoof Cleanse weekly, anything else I should stock up on? Farrier has said her white line at the moment looks nice and tight.

 

[paddy555]

I think an hour a day or even 45mins on tarmac is way too long if your shoes have just come off. I have seen so many people take their horses out for an hour on day 1. Horse does well, they are overjoyed. There is really nothing to this barefoot lark! In a weeks time the horse is sore and has run out of foot. It has worn down with all the tarmac work and the horse hasn't as yet adjusted to putting out sufficient growth to cope with barefoot work.

 

[PorkChop]

I think an hour a day or even 45mins on tarmac is way too long if your shoes have just come off. I have seen so many people take their horses out for an hour on day 1. Horse does well, they are overjoyed. There is really nothing to this barefoot lark! In a weeks time the horse is sore and has run out of foot. It has worn down with all the tarmac work and the horse hasn't as yet adjusted to putting out sufficient growth to cope with barefoot work.

Fair point, so are we talking 10 mins?

 

[FfionWinnie]

I would do ten minutes and work up gradually. You might be ok doing 45 mins a couple of times a week but once you've over done it you can't stick it back on while the feet get the grow faster message and I feel it's better not to have set backs if you can help it.

That said it's the Christmas hols so my daughter will be hacking her pony a lot more than the ten minutes walking I've done here and there however he has had his shoes off for a month now and I feel they need a decent (self) trim so we will probably get away with it as it will be back to little and often once the hols are over. If I think we are over doing it I'll just take them to the beach or somewhere less challenging for a few days.

 

[PorkChop]

I would do ten minutes and work up gradually. You might be ok doing 45 mins a couple of times a week but once you've over done it you can't stick it back on while the feet get the grow faster message and I feel it's better not to have set backs if you can help it.

That said it's the Christmas hols so my daughter will be hacking her pony a lot more than the ten minutes walking I've done here and there however he has had his shoes off for a month now and I feel they need a decent (self) trim so we will probably get away with it as it will be back to little and often once the hols are over. If I think we are over doing it I'll just take them to the beach or somewhere less challenging for a few days.

Thank you for the advice, ten minutes today, won't even get to the end of the drive!

 

[supsup]

My advice would be to be guided by your horse. If she's sore the next day (subtle signs include striding shorter, walking slower, less keen to land heel first), you've done too much. Give a break, then do a little less next time. If she was fine, add 5 mins next time and see if she's still ok the day after.
My other piece of advice is to give days off. Any exercise is "destructive" - it stresses muscles and other tissues. This is good because it stimulates the body to grow stronger, but the actual repair and strengthening happens when the horse is at rest. If you don't give enough breaks, you end up piling more damage on top of already stressed tissues. I'd work on a two days on, one day off rota, or even alternate between walking and rest days initially. (BTW, "rest" might be just turnout or exercise that is less taxing, e.g. movement on an easy surface. I don't mean box rest.). Just listen to your horse and don't push on too far too early.

 

[PorkChop]

My advice would be to be guided by your horse. If she's sore the next day (subtle signs include striding shorter, walking slower, less keen to land heel first), you've done too much. Give a break, then do a little less next time. If she was fine, add 5 mins next time and see if she's still ok the day after.
My other piece of advice is to give days off. Any exercise is "destructive" - it stresses muscles and other tissues. This is good because it stimulates the body to grow stronger, but the actual repair and strengthening happens when the horse is at rest. If you don't give enough breaks, you end up piling more damage on top of already stressed tissues. I'd work on a two days on, one day off rota, or even alternate between walking and rest days initially. (BTW, "rest" might be just turnout or exercise that is less taxing, e.g. movement on an easy surface. I don't mean box rest.). Just listen to your horse and don't push on too far too early.

Good advice, thank you

 

[paddy555]

Fair point, so are we talking 10 mins?

I would stick to 10 mins a day on tarmac for a couple of weeks and then review. I would make sure you clean all grit out of the WL , (horseshoe nail or bradawl) after every walk.

If your horse is capable and you want to exercise further then boot for outings over 10 mins. Work in the school etc BF but keep an eye on things if it is a very sandy surfaced school. Sand wears feet. If you have the facilities ride on tarmac for 10 mins and then do the rest of your ride on grassy fields etc.

Look at the feet constantly for wear. The first outing will have been easy, there will have been wall to wear down. Once you wear it down the horse may be walking on the frog so if sore think about thrush. Expect that at some stage in the next couple of weeks your horse will become sore. It very well may be so if you are prepared it will be a lot less depressing.

PS if 10 mins won't even get to the end of the drive and you want to ride then boot. The exercise will probably do the horse good.

 

[PorkChop]

I would stick to 10 mins a day on tarmac for a couple of weeks and then review. I would make sure you clean all grit out of the WL , (horseshoe nail or bradawl) after every walk.

If your horse is capable and you want to exercise further then boot for outings over 10 mins. Work in the school etc BF but keep an eye on things if it is a very sandy surfaced school. Sand wears feet. If you have the facilities ride on tarmac for 10 mins and then do the rest of your ride on grassy fields etc.

Look at the feet constantly for wear. The first outing will have been easy, there will have been wall to wear down. Once you wear it down the horse may be walking on the frog so if sore think about thrush. Expect that at some stage in the next couple of weeks your horse will become sore. It very well may be so if you are prepared it will be a lot less depressing.

PS if 10 mins won't even get to the end of the drive and you want to ride then boot. The exercise will probably do the horse good.

She isn't being ridden as she is lame, hence the transitioning. So no need to go further than ten mins, and tbh she is having her turnout on a sand arena so maybe I shouldn't bother with the walking on tarmac anyway. Obviously it is much simpler/easier for me not to in hand walk her, I was under the impression that they needed to be walked out. I have uncovered half of her stable to smooth concrete so she can potter about on that at night.

 

[paddy555]

She isn't being ridden as she is lame, hence the transitioning. So no need to go further than ten mins, and tbh she is having her turnout on a sand arena so maybe I shouldn't bother with the walking on tarmac anyway. Obviously it is much simpler/easier for me not to in hand walk her, I was under the impression that they needed to be walked out. I have uncovered half of her stable to smooth concrete so she can potter about on that at night.

they don't have to be walked on tarmac. The reason for walking on tarmac is to start to transition their feet from shod to a barefoot working horse. I have taken the shoes off several over the years and just turned them out in the field or left them to wander around the yard for 2/3 weeks until they adapt. Then started work on tarmac to make them into riding horses. If she is lame that may be better for you and then review after the new Year.

if she is lame I wouldn't bother just let her get on with it for a bit. Sorry everyone was talking about walking I didn't realise she was still lame. I wouldn't walk a lame horse.

 

[HufflyPuffly]

I didn't (don't ) do much walking out as prescribed by the experts, partly time and partly because we had to get up our very stony lane so at first she needed boots for the lane and then I had no where to put the boots if I took them off at the top.

Walking them out in gradually increasing time will probably speed up their transition, but I found wasn't that critical for us as I didn't mind how long it took as she's partly retired and I was happy to stick with boots if needed. Doodle got turned out bare and ridden in boots for the first 6-9 months, she's now hacking bare as well .

 

[PorkChop]

they don't have to be walked on tarmac. The reason for walking on tarmac is to start to transition their feet from shod to a barefoot working horse. I have taken the shoes off several over the years and just turned them out in the field or left them to wander around the yard for 2/3 weeks until they adapt. Then started work on tarmac to make them into riding horses. If she is lame that may be better for you and then review after the new Year.

if she is lame I wouldn't bother just let her get on with it for a bit. Sorry everyone was talking about walking I didn't realise she was still lame. I wouldn't walk a lame horse.

I didn't (don't ) do much walking out as prescribed by the experts, partly time and partly because we had to get up our very stony lane so at first she needed boots for the lane and then I had no where to put the boots if I took them off at the top.

Walking them out in gradually increasing time will probably speed up their transition, but I found wasn't that critical for us as I didn't mind how long it took as she's partly retired and I was happy to stick with boots if needed. Doodle got turned out bare and ridden in boots for the first 6-9 months, she's now hacking bare as well .

Gawd, confused dot com. Walking will now cease

 

[HufflyPuffly]

Gawd, confused dot com. Walking will now cease

Everyone has an opinion or story lol, I posted on a facebook group near the start of the year (not for the faint-hearted :eek3 and one person said I shouldn't ride her at all for x number of weeks and then start 10 mins walking etc, I'd already been riding her for a couple of weeks by that point without her feet falling off :lol:.

Really you just need to listen to the horse in front of you, if they're coping and not sore crack on, if they start to look sore do less, and then when you panic you've ruined it all post on here and the good people of HHO will give you a virtual slap and set you straight it worked well for me anyway :lol:.

 

[paddy555]

Everyone has an opinion or story lol, I posted on a facebook group near the start of the year (not for the faint-hearted :eek3 and one person said I shouldn't ride her at all for x number of weeks and then start 10 mins walking etc, I'd already been riding her for a couple of weeks by that point without her feet falling off :lol:.

Really you just need to listen to the horse in front of you, if they're coping and not sore crack on, if they start to look sore do less, and then when you panic you've ruined it all post on here and the good people of HHO will give you a virtual slap and set you straight it worked well for me anyway :lol:.

excellent last sentence!!

get some pics now, (camera on the ground for the side shots) give her a month and take some more pics. You will start to see improvement. Probably also improvement in the way she moves and if she is still lame or getting better. In the meantime sand freezes so get the ice plan ready. That could be the number one thing to make her footsore.

 

[ester]

I walked f who was a bit lame but had recently had a steroid injection as that helped but didn't last. Only 5 mins a day to start, I know I took it very slowly with him but think taking things slower can't really be a bad thing to start whereas going too quick has the potential to be. I'm sure I could have left him out in the field for a couple of weeks too and ended up with the same outcome long term

 

[ycbm]

She isn't being ridden as she is lame, hence the transitioning. So no need to go further than ten mins, and tbh she is having her turnout on a sand arena so maybe I shouldn't bother with the walking on tarmac anyway. Obviously it is much simpler/easier for me not to in hand walk her, I was under the impression that they needed to be walked out. I have uncovered half of her stable to smooth concrete so she can potter about on that at night.

In my opinion it is essential to get these rehab horses moving. if they don't do enough miles, they won't rebuild the back half of the foot which it's essential to the rehab process. Some of these rehabs do not recover, no matter how long they are field rested, until they get moving. The walking on tarmac is not solely for transition to barefoot. It's to get the miles into them on the easiest and least risky surface for them to manage. Also a surface which will trim the foot and let you know what the correct foot balance is. This is also essential to recovery.

In the absence of group turnout on a track system, hand walking on tarmac until she is landing heel first has worked for every rehab where I've seen it done.

 

[PorkChop]

excellent last sentence!!

get some pics now, (camera on the ground for the side shots) give her a month and take some more pics. You will start to see improvement. Probably also improvement in the way she moves and if she is still lame or getting better. In the meantime sand freezes so get the ice plan ready. That could be the number one thing to make her footsore.

Will do, salt is here to mix in with the sand, but I can go to the indoor school whenever I want. This is last chance saloon for this horse, the issue is more that if we can't get her moving soon to start rehabbing her back she is a goner anyway.

I walked f who was a bit lame but had recently had a steroid injection as that helped but didn't last. Only 5 mins a day to start, I know I took it very slowly with him but think taking things slower can't really be a bad thing to start whereas going too quick has the potential to be. I'm sure I could have left him out in the field for a couple of weeks too and ended up with the same outcome long term

Thank you for this

In my opinion it is essential to get these rehab horses moving. if they don't do enough miles, they won't rebuild the back half of the foot which it's essential to the rehab process. Some of these rehabs do not recover, no matter how long they are field rested, until they get moving. The walking on tarmac is not solely for transition to barefoot. It's to get the miles into them on the easiest and least risky surface for them to manage. Also a surface which will trim the foot and let you know what the correct foot balance is. This is also essential to recovery.

In the absence of group turnout on a track system, hand walking on tarmac until she is landing heel first has worked for every rehab where I've seen it done.

I have to say that my farrier agrees with your train of thought, everything has to be balanced to what is going to help and what is going to hinder. Not sure how to proceed but I will take all information on board and do what I think is best.

 

[ester]

I agree that movement is vital and those I've seen fail have lacked that but if you do too much too soon then you can end up with a sore horse who isn't moving properly to do themselves any good anyway so I like little and often and building up gradually and being guided by the horse too. Frank went out stomping to start but how he was at week 6 I was pleased not to have pushed to do more on the road up until then. (I upped his mileage off road on soft grass for a while so moving further but not all on road) DE is only on day 2 so I don't see the rush.

 

[ycbm]

Neither do I. You did notice that my recommendation was ten minutes to start, Ester? We are in complete agreement here, I think.

 

[paddy555]

In my opinion it is essential to get these rehab horses moving.

to a point yes but if walking a lame horse just makes it move even more badly then it usually has a knock on effect to somewhere else in it's body. Depends whether that potential further damage is an acceptable risk or will make matters worse.

The ideal is letting it wander without a human demanding a walk or a herd to bully it.