Homozygous tobiano colt!!! Help

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thatsmygirl

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I have a stunning colt who is homozygous tabiano, cob x tb. Totally stunning and a real head tuner. Going to get him showing next year but do I keep him entire or geld? Seems a shame to geld but would he sell entire? If so would he be worth anything? 15.2hh. He's only young so just wondering really. Thanks
 
Hiya

personally if it was me and you had the facilities to keep a colt and he wasnt causing to much of a mither for you i would defo keep him entire.Because if you ever come to sell him after hes done some showing he will be available to a broader market and people have the option and i think he will be worth abit more with being homozygous.Hope this has helped.

:D
 
I too would keep him entire, but only on the provisio that he can led a normal horsey happy life. If he has to live by himself because he's entire I'd have his bits off asap. We've just bought a VERY well bred highland colt who may well be a lovely stallion: he's only 6months but is being gelded asap because he would need to live on his own if he as kept entire.

Weither he's a nice enough to a stallion remains to be seem (it's irresponsible to bred from him just because of his colour) but there's no harm keeping him entire at the moment.

Incidently, have you had him tested for homozygous colour? Unless you know both parents are homozygous for colour (i.e they've been tested) there's no way to tell. Two coloured parents don't nessesarily make a homozygous foal. And if one parent was a TB, they must have been solid? And therefore he can't be homozygous.
 
Yes he will be able to lead a normal life with plenty off turn out, he's been tested and I have his certifcate to prove he's homozygous.
 
i have one too, also 2 fillys. at min mine is with my gelding but when feeding hay i will pair him up with my mares that is infoal and gelding. i will keep my maiden fillys seprate. mares infoal will keep him sane and keep manners in him. any pics? if i was you i would try keep entire, as worth alot more if turns out well. also if kept well mannered and mixed with horses he will be fine if you do wish to geld.
 
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this is my boy he is a yearling, not best photo he has stronger bone in pic looks alot light than he is.
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this is my homozygous yearling filly again not best pic.
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this is my 5 mth old filly, she is only 6 weeks in this pic. she's a big girl. she is also in background of 1st filly photo.
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Oh guys I really need help now.
The colt is turning up at mine Tuesday, thing is going by what somebody has stated on here that he can't be homozygous tobiano got me digging on the Internet. Which also states both parents must be coloured for him to get 1 gene from both off them. His mum was a solid tb??? Any help would be great as iv got one day until he arrives. Seen cert but I'm wondering now if it's fake
 
http://www.horsedna.co.uk/
sorry i thought you had him and you tested him. i would hold of on him doesnt sound right. was it advertised online. send me a pm of it and i will check it out. have you paid yet.
 
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To get the test done you send off hairs pulled from the mane or tail but it is easy to send in hairs from a different horse.
You can't get a homozygous tobiano from a solid TB parent.
 
As a follow on I think you've answered the gelding question - if he isn't so outstanding that he should be kept entire, homozygous or not, he should be gelded.
 
Sorry to burst you're bubble :o

Just when you said 'TB' alarm bells were ringing - they HAVE to have two coloured parents for a chance to be homozygous and you don't get proper tobiano TB's........

Presumably, with him being homozygous being important, it's because you want to produce exclusively coloured foals? I.e use him as a stallion? Or is it because you want to sell him on later to be used as a stud? Either way it should be his conformation, movement and temperment that decides if you want to keep him entire, not his colour.
 
Kallibear said:
Sorry to burst you're bubble :o

Just when you said 'TB' alarm bells were ringing - they HAVE to have two coloured parents for a chance to be homozygous and you don't get proper tobiano TB's........Presumably, with him being homozygous being important, it's because you want to produce exclusively coloured foals? I.e use him as a stallion? Or is it because you want to sell him on later to be used as a stud? Either way it should be his conformation, movement and temperment that decides if you want to keep him entire, not his colour.
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Doesn't Angrove Stud on here have a tobiano TB in training? I do stand to be corrected on this.

As to whether to keep him as ungelded for the foreseeable future, if you have the facilities and if his temperament etc is decent (agree with kallibear on this) I personally would leave him entire and play it by ear. It is what I do with my colts unless they are riding ponies, not up to scratch or positively evil toads. I tend to advertise them as colts and say I will geld ($ negotiable obviously) if required.
 
Hey guys
no money has changed hands yet not until tomoz. I'm now told they got him mixed up with a paint foal they got which is tb x paint. This chap I'm ment to be buying is cobx so trying to find out more now before tomoz.
Is there anything on passport to match up to homozgyous cert?
I can't send link to here via my phone and have no computer but can e mail pic to anybody who would like to give me their honest thought about him being good enough for a stallion.
I was intenting to sell him as a stallion later after showing etc and to breed my own foal from my hunter to keep not to sell.
Any help is really helpfull. Also I know people who turn their colts out with geldings, is this ok? No fighting?
 
i have just pm you with my email address, for you to send pic. i am working soon so will be later before i can get back to you but i will for sure. homozygous wont be on passport just certifacate they got, but i dont knoww this doesnt sound right. well look forward to seeing pic and i will get back to you. also what is correct breeding. is he a heavy weight coloured or a sport horse coloured. chat soon
 
If he does not have to coloured parents there is no genetically possible way for him to be homozygous....sorry. It could be that the DNA cert you have says he is homozygous BLACK which means he will throw only bay or black foals...no chestnuts. This is often used as a tool to 'fob' people off who don't know about these things as being homozygious for the black gene and homozygous for the tobiano gene are easily confusing if someone chooses to just tell you he is homozygous. Hope this helps.
 
An American paint x TB won't be homozygous for tobiano either.

Please PM with details and I'll see what I can dig up. BTW an American Paint x TB can be registered as an American Paint.

The question of homozygosity only applies if needed for breeding and far too many horses are kept entire just to produce colour. Could this be why coloured are falling back out of favour after years of trying to get mainstream acceptance?
 
Doesn't Angrove Stud on here have a tobiano TB in training? I do stand to be corrected on this.
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Suppose it depends what would class as a true 'Thoroughbred'. Does it not have to be something like 8 generations of TB's back to finally classed as 'pure TB'? I know the Angrove Stallions are only 3/4breds at present. Since TB'd don't/didn't come coloured there must be something else added in somewhere along the line.

Monster - the 'mixing up' of foals sounds highly supicious. And if mum (or dad) are solid there is no way the foal can be homozygous.
 
From the information you have provided, it sounds like you are being duped. If it's not too late, get out of it and walk away. Colour alone is certainly not enough to keep a horse entire. If you go ahead, have him graded, that will let you know whether he has the temperament, movement and conformation to pass, before he is allowed to cover any mare. There are too many unwanted horses currently on the market to needlessly add more. Sorry if it's not what you want to hear.
 
Kallibear said:
Suppose it depends what would class as a true 'Thoroughbred'. Does it not have to be something like 8 generations of TB's back to finally classed as 'pure TB'? I know the Angrove Stallions are only 3/4breds at present. Since TB'd don't/didn't come coloured there must be something else added in somewhere along the line.

Monster - the 'mixing up' of foals sounds highly supicious. And if mum (or dad) are solid there is no way the foal can be homozygous.
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One of our stallions is 3/4 TB Ricco, the other is nearly 7/8ths and Homozygous Tobiano Angrove Spotted Dick and the Tobiano racehorse (Angrove rumbaba his new racing name)we have in training is 7/8th TB and carries 1 tobiano gene from his dad who is Heterozygous like his son, it is totally impossible to breed a homozygous double gene true breeding tobinao from a solid horse as the gene is only inherited from both parents and the both have to be HOMOZYGOUS FOR the TOBIANO gene.

However you will find other colour genes in the TB Splash white/ Dominant white/ and a non testable form of Sabino not SB1 you can gain more colour when you breed a Tobiano carrier to a TB splash carrier thats what we have done very sucessfully and you have to know the indicators for these genes as they can not be tested for in the UK or US except for Dominant white.

I would be very careful who you buy your horses from reputation is very important
 
the Tobiano racehorse (Angrove rumbaba his new racing name)we have in training is 7/8th TB
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Out of interest (nothing really to do with colour) does that make him Thougrghbred enough to be classed as a TB yet? How many generations would you need to be until the horse would be able to be classed as entirely TB?

it is totally impossible to breed a homozygous double gene true breeding tobinao from a solid horse as the gene is only inherited from both parents and the both have to be HOMOZYGOUS FOR the TOBIANO gene.
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Totally agree that you cannot get a homozygous foal from a solid parent BUT it's not true that both parents need to be homozygous coloured to produce a homozygous foal - two hetrozygous parents can produce a homozygous foal - you'd have a 25% chance of a homozygous foal (and a 50% of a coloured but hetrozygous foal, as well as 25% chance of a coloured foal)
 
Sorry Yes my mistake I was thinking and writing at the same time and made a mistake both parents need to be Heterozygous thats what I should have said.
Angrove rumbaba is classes as a racehorse he is still only 7/8th some racehorse are less then this, see below its a far more common occurance, than most people realise.
to get to prure TB you are right V11=7 and is the foundation then its 8 crosses to GSB horses and then the 8th is the Vehical Animal and there after all can be registered as GSB Horses we are lucky to have the jump so we need the speed so we are breeding from 7f sprinters

AQPS Stud Book in france has been set up to help french breeders achieve Jump bred horses for NH racing in Europe Ireland & the UK

Initially, the breeding of AQPS horses required only the mating of thoroughbred horses with other breeds, be it Selle Fran�ais, Anglo-Arabs, sport horses and even French Trotter,generally destined for jump racing, the AQPS has now developed a breed specifically designed for jumping 2005 with the birth of the AQPS breed,
a label that now means horses that are designed to succeed
in the best jump races but are an alternative to thoroughbreds,
and no longer means all of these racehorses are referred to en masse as half-bloods.

what I was also going to say was the % get bigger the more genes for colour you add
it is a better chance of getting more colour that can nearly equal having a homozygous horse.

tobiano & splash 50% to solid horse
tobiano & Splash & Sabino 75%
tobiano +splash+sabino+ frame overo Is around 98% all from memory

I really dont want frame in our bloodline as its naturally in the TB anyway hidden and I have had heard of a LWO from a tobiano carring frame so I am not going there.
 
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IMO, regardless of the homozygous issue, if they can mix up their horses that easily then steer well clear and buy from someone who knows what they're talking about.
 
what I was also going to say was the % get bigger the more genes for colour you add
it is a better chance of getting more colour that can nearly equal having a homozygous horse.

tobiano & splash 50% to solid horse
tobiano & Splash & Sabino 75%
tobiano +splash+sabino+ frame overo Is around 98% all from memory
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Eugh, far too complicated for me. I can deal with straight, dominiate/nondomiant allels (sp?) . After that I get lost :o
 
Kallibear its really easy if you go to coat calculator on the US verison of animal genetics and put in horses with more colour genes you will see what I mean you then have to add them up all the various combs its easy really if you think each colour is 25% so four colours =100 they each have that chance when there is four involved
looks like one of your on your sig is a splash carrier is that horse having homozygous children by any chance?
 
Still too complicated:o The americans take their coloureds seriously! I can just about manage splash, sabino and tobiano. Loose interested when it goes onto frame and overo's etc :o

Pip's is a gelding so no PiperBabies :( But his dad is homozygous and his mum's coloured so a good chance he's homozygous too. His markings are a little unsual and are probably as mix of various genes, inc tobiano and splash
 
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