Hoof boots or shoes - help me decide

[mavandkaz]

Need some help making a decision as keep going around in circles. Just when I make my mind up something happens to change it.

Bit of background - horse turned away in October 2019 (shoes off) with chronic suspensory problems and a few other issues, not expected to return to work. June 2020 reassessed and made a miraculous recovery, vet wanted him kept barefoot as thought that may have contributed to the huge improvement. We've done inhand work and am now riding gently 3 times a week.
Did use some cavello treks on front feet when doing longer roadwork or over stones, but was fine on the soft and on grass

He was doing quite well but is now really foot sore on all but soft going. Presume the wet weather is making his soles soft. I stopped using the hoof boots as the off road hacking has patches of deep mud (hard to avoid), and where he over reaches I worry what the concussion is doing to his hind legs/feet, as after one particular hack his hind fetlocks really swelled up (might not be related but makes sense to me)

So those that use hoof boots, how good do you find them on multiple surfaces - my hacking always incorporates road, stones grass and mud.

I worry with hoof boots about the mud getting in and making him sore, and that any movement of the hoof boot will add strain to his already iffy suspensories.
But removing his shoes seems to have done him the world of good, and I worry putting them back on will be the thing that breaks him.

Thoughts?
Chocolate and gin if you got this far.

 

[ester]

Is he sore behind or just in front? Any thrush? - I would treat anyway at this time of year. Anything else occurred that might make him sore? feed changes etc?

I think if you have only used cavallos I would try a sportier low profile option before shoeing.

Personally I used easyboot gloves on a horse very prone to rubbing/soreness/random scabs. They do better put onto a drier hoof as have more 'grip' but the only time I lost one was at speed, in company (we never really did speed on our own )

 

[mavandkaz]

Is he sore behind or just in front? Any thrush? - I would treat anyway at this time of year. Anything else occurred that might make him sore? feed changes etc?

I think if you have only used cavallos I would try a sportier low profile option before shoeing.

Personally I used easyboot gloves on a horse very prone to rubbing/soreness/random scabs. They do better put onto a drier hoof as have more 'grip' but the only time I lost one was at speed, in company (we never really did speed on our own )

Appears to be just Infront. Hoof quality is good but doesn't grow alot, he is a TB so does have typical thin soles and low/underun heels. Hinds have a nice concave shape, but you can see where the tie is worn on the fronts.
He's on hifi unmollassed chaff and Equimins Advanced, and have been using red horse stronghorn (dropped this off over the summer but have increased frequency again). Nothing has changed in the last couple of months, other then going in the school more as now unable to use the grass paddock I could in the summer.

Was all set to try some more 'technical' slim line boots but keep hesitating and thinking maybe I should just shoe.
Will just be walking and trotting for a while yet. Think I just need to get past the visions of them being sucked off in mud, or them twisting etc when we go off road ?

 

[Gingerwitch]

Speak to liz at the hoof boutique. Try some scoots or equine fusions. Boots to and from the field, if your leaving boots on all day I also think thrush could be an issue.
Use Kevin bacon, is he on magnesium and if worse comes to worse think about a few days oh karate.
Is he bedded on straw or shavings.
Are you feeding formula for feet ? Are you using solution for feet and or a decent hoof prep again Kevin bacon ?
Is he on a low sugar diet ?
Is your farrier trimming him correctly? Sometimes a farrier forgets and trims for shoes rather than barefoot.
Has he hurt himself on the hard frosty ground ?
What is he on clay, sand etc ?
Dint give up

 

[Gingerwitch]

That should say keratex!

 

[Gloi]

Agree speak to hoof boutique but maybe time to move up to a more performance type boot like Scoots. If the soles are sensitive try using hoof armour on them. If you use scoots I advise using mud straps with them if you are going off road.

 

[TheSpottyCobby]

I've just bitten the bullet and had my pony shod all round yesterday. He's been barefoot his entire life (he's rising 8 now) but he has PSSM and is worked 6 days a week. His feet aren't great in the winter, and after ending up with a vet call out literally 3 days into the new year for a bruised foot, my heart can't take the stress any more. Boots just weren't going to be for us, he's on a barefoot friendly diet for his PSSM, and if I didn't do something I was going to end up with more vet bills and an even more sore pony (which does his muscles no good).
My friend is very pro barefoot and is horrified
I have loved being able to keep him barefoot and I agree it's best to keep natural if you can, but not to the detriment of the horse or pony.

 

[GinaGeo]

As Ester said could there be some thrush lurking? Would definitely be worth treating just in case.

I have a selection of slim fitting boots for my horses. Have been really impressed with all of them. It’s key to get the right boot and the right size.

The Renegades in particular have superb tread and don’t seem to move. We’ve been through mud, slick grass, rocky terrain that the shod horses were less able over. We’ve done 18+mile hacks over this varied terrain, no rubs, no boot losses and happy horses ?

I’d second speaking to Liz at Hoof Boutique.

 

[GinaGeo]

Deleted - duplicate post

 

[paddy555]

Appears to be just Infront. Hoof quality is good but doesn't grow alot, he is a TB so does have typical thin soles and low/underun heels. Hinds have a nice concave shape, but you can see where the tie is worn on the fronts.
He's on hifi unmollassed chaff and Equimins Advanced, and have been using red horse stronghorn (dropped this off over the summer but have increased frequency again). Nothing has changed in the last couple of months, other then going in the school more as now unable to use the grass paddock I could in the summer.

Was all set to try some more 'technical' slim line boots but keep hesitating and thinking maybe I should just shoe.
Will just be walking and trotting for a while yet. Think I just need to get past the visions of them being sucked off in mud, or them twisting etc when we go off road ?

I've ridden in gloves with the horse up to his knees almost through bog and they stayed on. If they fit they shouldn't twist.
If I was booting a thin soled horse I would choose either gloves or renegades (classic or vipers) but not scoots.

What about ester's question of any thrush. That makes a horse foot sore very quicly and this is a good time of the year for it. Poke your hoof pick firmly into the central sulchus. Does it bother him.

 

[mavandkaz]

Should have included in original post:
Fed on hifi unmollassed, with Equimins Advanced Complete, and hay.
Have been using red horse stronghorn
In at night out during the day, we are on chalk so only really muddy in the gateways. Stables on straw over concrete.
Farrier has barely touched him, just run a rasp round to tidy edges a couple of times.

I have my measurements and photos ready for the hoof boutique. Am willing to put the necessary money in to make this work, providing it is workable.
He is on part livery, so turned out and brought in for me. I will ask if he can wear boots down to the field (at least the cavellos are easy to put on and take off). If not I can do the morning shift myself if needed. Don't want to put them on over muddy feet on the way back then.
Can also try and get some stable mats for the front of his stable where he stands to eat hay.

 

[Michen]

Oh strange I have just had this with Boggle! Suddenly went really footsore, I attributed it to soft soles and the frozen, rutted ground. I shod at to weekend but was planning to anyway.

FWIW both the easyboot gloves and scoots have been great up till now with our hacking. Even down the steep grassy hill, surprised me. They a both a close fit so there’s never mud inside them when I get back.. welcome to try them!

Agree re scoots, I used them on backs for that reason and the gloves on front as thicker soled.

 

[Gingerwitch]

Scoots will wash for the next day, wuickbhoof pick and brush before boots go on ?
I personally think unless your mud had tonnes or gravel youvars worrying to much about the mud, I am no saying I would want pony standing in muddy boots for long but a quick walk in boots back to stable would be my preference than him getting foing sore off rocky ground.
A layer of shavings would help dry his feet overnight too.

Chin up summer will soon be here.
X

 

[paddy555]

looking at your diet I wondered about protein if you are getting poor hoof growth.

https://forageplustalk.co.uk/feeding-horse-hoof-health-dr-kellon/

 

[mavandkaz]

Thanks all.
No sign of thrush that I can see, but will treat him as though he is (have a cob also who I took barefoot back in march, and she has really struggled with thrush so can just include him on her routine)

I do wonder if his soles went soft from the wet, and then have bruised from the frozen ground.

Will get on to hoof boutique and get trying some boots. So yes, ideally need ones that are close fitting but with decent, hard soles.
Michen would be great if I could try some, just to see how they should fit and what to look for.

 

[Gingerwitch]

I hate my phone ! It makes me sound like a nutter

 

[Michen]

Sure I’m not up tomorrow but will find them weds and leave outside your stable. Or if you want to look I think they are upstairs in a green little bucket somewhere near my pile of rubble ?

 

[mavandkaz]

Scoots will wash for the next day, wuickbhoof pick and brush before boots go on ?
I personally think unless your mud had tonnes or gravel youvars worrying to much about the mud, I am no saying I would want pony standing in muddy boots for long but a quick walk in boots back to stable would be my preference than him getting foing sore off rocky ground.
A layer of shavings would help dry his feet overnight too.

Chin up summer will soon be here.
X

Yep, just trying to hold for the drier weather.
We have quite a bit of flint as well, so wouldn't what to put boots on dirty feet.
I think it would be to much to ask YO to clean his feet and put boots on whilst trying to bring 2 or 3 horses through a muddy gateway.
But if he can wear them to the field, then at least that's a 50% improvement.
Unfortunately only straw is included in livery.

 

[mavandkaz]

Sure I’m not up tomorrow but will find them weds and leave outside your stable. Or if you want to look I think they are upstairs in a green little bucket somewhere near my pile of rubble ?

Thanks! Ponies have dentist on Wednesday so will have time to faff about and try things out.

 

[BBP]

In terms of worry about concussion on hinds, and or a horse that over reaches, I wouldn’t shoe. With iffy suspensories obviously avoiding mud all together would be the best bet, but understandably difficult.

Hoof boot wise I think my sister and I have tried most. Renegades are my go to in all but the deepest mud. I have exploras, scoots and cavallos too but always prefer the renegades. (Exploras are interesting as sole has more flex than the others, but I don’t get on with how they fasten.)

my sister is using flex boots on hinds, and putting pads in them to reduce concussion in arthritic hinds. So far they are working well and are the first set that don’t move as her horse has a twist as he places the hind foot. All other boots have twisted and rubbed him so far.

 

[ester]

fwiw I only ever bought 2 pairs of gloves albeit we were ok for road work (flat soles too despite being a native pony), the second are practically new as I wasn't sure how well the previous pair would do on a riding holiday in the new forest so bought us some new ones. Frankly a bargain compared to shoeing.

Oh yeah, what paddy said about bog, we went through one of those too, at least knee high rara can confirm, I was quite surprised I didn't have to go looking for at least one in said bog, given that they were pretty new

I did use mine with power straps which made them a bit trickier to get on/off, but without I'd happily take them off when we got to a grassy bit and on again for the way home.

 

[Palindrome]

Has he eaten frozen grass?
For my horses, diet is generally the most important factor in hoof soreness and it comes from either spring grass or frozen grass.

 

[JackFrost]

I have always used Cavallo ELBs, but more recently got some Cavallo Treks. The fit on the treks is different to the ElBs - they seem more bulky. My horses have always liked ELBs, but horsey does NOT like the Treks (flings them off when I try to put them on and makes it obvious!). My terrain is very varied, roads, mud, sharp stones, sloshy bogs etc. Only once had a boot come off and then because I hadn't done it up properly. Farrier agrees shoes wouldn't help as they don't protect the sole, he recommends boots. If the boot fits well it doesn't move on the foot, and very little mud gets in so the foot stays cleaner than with shoes.

 

[Gingerwitch]

Hey, more than one way of skinning the cat.... can you stand him in a tray of shavings or sand whilst he eats his tea and hay? this would give his feet a bit of a chance to dry out, also how big is your bed? my geldings always have semi damp hooves, i now put a bale of shavings under the little TB because his feet to were getting to soft, in the main because of where they wee, the girls on the other hand don;t.
Good news with the boots to the field, as you say you have not cut the damage by 50 %.
My favourite boots are the equine fusion jogging, i do like the scoots for ease of putting on but for "ping" if i put the equine fusions on the little tb its like having tigger on speed. The easyboot gloves - i hate they are awful to fit, but the horse does go well in them once they are on.

 

[Lady Jane]

Listen to Gingerwitch.....agree with everything

 

[mavandkaz]

Thank you for all your replies.
Have made a couple of changes to his routine which will hopefully help.
I sent off his measurements to hoof boutique, and they have suggested the following if I want to go for low profile boots. So any experiences of the following...
Renegade classic or viper
Easycare glove
Scoot boot
Floating boot

 

[GinaGeo]

I have the Renegade Vipers for my horse and some Gloves for mum’s pony. I’ve also got the Cavallos and the Swiss Gallopers - but I won’t go into those.

The vipers have really impressed me. Really grippy and don’t move. I like that they don’t have fabric and that I don’t need to worry about drying them out after riding. A scrub and then they’re good to go ? . You have a degree of adjustability because of the tension wires, which are a bit off faff the first time. But once it’s done it’s done. They’ve been on some very long rides, with no rubbing and seem to cope with the mud.

Certainly better in mud than my friends Scoot Boots which get sucked off even with Mud Straps. But the Scoots are a quick boot to put on, and she doesn’t have any other problems in them.

The gloves are also good. Need to fit more precisely than the Renegades, and the gator does take more drying afterwards.

Have no experience of the Floating Boots.

If I were choosing a boot from the ones I’ve got and used I’d choose the Renegade.

 

[ester]

We used gloves, with power straps (the latter mostly due to shape)
They are less faffy than renegades but with the power straps did better with a rubber mallet to get them on the toe correctly. They did cope with a normal trim cycle quite well (we had them for transitioning so quite a lot of change occurring) but by the time I was using them for speedy stuff I was trimming him myself so no big changes.

IME the gaiters worked well but they did mean they had to come in for drying if wet.

I think Director fury has had the floating boots, will send her a msg when it's not quite so late!

 

[ycbm]

I had renegade vipers on a TB who needed them for a while and rubbed badly in Cavallos. I loved them and they will be my go-to boot in future. They are the only boot, as far as I'm aware, where the heel cradle is not connected to the main bit by anything but thin wire. This means that nothing on the boot ever moves against the hair/ skin of the horse when the joints bend. It's almost impossible for them to rub. I also found they stayed straight when other boots twisted. I never tried them in mud.

 

[DirectorFury]

I used the floating boots a few times - though not really the fault of the boots! I made the mistake of measuring her feet just after a trim and was on the border of two sizes so sized down*. When I could get them on her feet they were amazing, didn’t move or rub at all and she’s got incredibly thin soles but was fine over all surfaces at all speeds in them.
Unfortunately, it usually took 20mins+ per hoof to get the blasted things on, and in the winter it meant I’d end up absolutely covered in mud. You can heat form them which would’ve helped had I got round to doing it, but I ended up just having her shod again as I was avoiding riding due to the hassle of getting the boots on.

In short: the boots were great, i was the problem! I’ve still got them in case we try bf again, but I’m happy to send them to you to try if the Hoof Bootique don’t have your size in stock. They’re size M2.

* this is because I tried the Swiss galoppers first and they just fell off. All. The. Time.

Edit: the floating boots stayed on through flat out gallops (and the horse is quite...extravagant... at gallop) across sand and walking through thick mud.