hoof care of horse with laminitis

0ldmare

0ldmare

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This is something that's been worrying me for quite a while and it relates to my laminitic horse..

She was due to have her feet trimmed 3 days AFTER she went down with laminitis (she's unshod), so it didn't happen. My vet keeps telling me in the strongest possible way not to have them touched (and indeed she has a point as the horse is very very lame so maybe its not even possible). But its now been 7 weeks since she started the laminitis and so that means she was last trimmed 14 weeks ago :eek: :eek:

Does anyone have any views on what to do in these cases where laminitis doesn't resolve quickly? I'm HATING seeing her feet so bad (they are not great at the best of times even when regularly trimmed)

Do you think I should press the vet to maybe give the horse a big enough amount of painkillers to get a quick trim done or would it upset things and make them even worse?
 
Couple of things,

Have you had her feet X rayed, if so whats the damage, ie rotation.

Your mare will have to grown new feet so you really should be having them trimmed.

You could do with speaking to Lucy Priory.
 
Thanks AS, she's had 2 sets of x-rays done and (this is the puzzling thing) there was minimal rotation or dropping. So her clinical signs/severity of lameness doesn't really match with the x-rays.

Maybe I should PM lucypriory, but would also be interested to hear what others have done. My vet just seems very anti me doing anything, but her feet can't be helping :(
 
In my experience you need to trim more often during laminitic phases. You need the toes taken back and not left too long -but I've always put faith in my very good farrier. In fact, I have far less faith in vets when it comes to laminitis, but that is down to experience. Have you got the horse on well soaked hay, deep shavings bed, and with frog supports? I find this increases comfort the best. What age is your horse, is Cushing's a possibility?
 
I'd have had her a proper laminitic trim asap. Toes as short as possible and a very strong roll on the front All long toes are going to do is make her feet 100x more painful, levering the sore toes up with every stride.

What's her current management, feet wise? She shouldn't still be crippled lame after so long.

To be honest there are plenty of vets who know very little about managing hooves - their training literally involves being told to hand it over the farrier, so unless they've taken a personal interest in feet, they're not always the best people to advise.

Have you spoke to your farrier? Maybe get him out to have a look and advise.

Can she stand on three legs? If she's still down it's possible (but not ideal) to trim her feet whilst down. Or get her booted up with thick pads and frog support on the other three. That's when we did for our very severe lamitic (with 15degrees of rotation!)
 
Yes it is cushings induced laminitis, this was unfortunately diagnosed after she went lame. She's now on Pergolide

She has had frog supports on, but as the vet agreed she appears more comfortable without them. We tried 3 types of supports at different times and she always seemed worse with them on (why do I get the tricky horse!)

She's in the school which has a lovely soft supportive surface because she's such a stress head in the stable (box walks and weaves, whereas in the school she doesn't move much and is relaxed)

I'm feeling more and more that I should talk to the vet again about getting the farrier. Her foot conformation is never good and is even worse due to the rather poor farrier who did her feet last time, as my old one is long term sick. I've now got a new very good farrier but he's not seen the horse yet
 
If she's got weak feet them sudden frog supports can make them uncomfortable - they SHOULD be standing on their frogs but if she's not used to it (or she'd got any thrush) they're going to be a bit sore.

Have you tried her with boots and a thick overall pad? Cavallo boots are brilliant for that and the best and cheapest pad is a gardeners kneeling pad cut to shape.

I would get the farrier out asap. Her feet will be growing fast and having overgrown feet will only make her sorer. In fact I'm horrified you're vet had said no to having her feet trimmed. :eek:
 
I totally agreee with Kallibear who worded her anwer so much better than me, but that is what I was trying to say. You need a farrier/good trimmer ASAP! It's all part of her treatment. Also, if it's Cushings induced laminitis and she has just started Pergolide it may take a week or two for the Pergolide to take effect. Sometimes the dose needs adjusting. I found with my Cushings pony that I needed to keep her diet very tight, otherwise the laminitis symptoms reappeared. If she is still in pain, it suggest to me that either her diet is still too high in sugar, or the pergolide dose needs to be higher (though you can only increase gradually). In the early days I got lots of information from here:
http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/EquineCushings/
It is an American group and they do have some different ideas on management/use different products, but you should find information to get your horses diet sorted. Good luck,

Sue
 
Thanks Kallibear, I think you have made my mind up for me, I'm going to call my farrier tomorrow (and the vet). I'm just not happy to leave them any longer and the replies to my thread seem to agree

She isn't down and she can briefly stand on 3 legs (about 15-30 seconds, but its something!)

She has had no foot managent at all except I've been treating her thrush which has now cleared up.

I just don't get why the vet is SO against me getting her feet looked at. Her toes are very long and she is down on her heels, the angles are bad, (but I'm no expert)
 
Thanks very much, her diet can't be causing the problem, all she's now getting is 12 hour soaked hay twice a day (she gets offered Safe and Sound and Hi Fi lite as well but she won't go near it so its just gets chucked away - won't touch Speedi Beet either)

She's had various supports, all of which she's worn for around 4-5 days and has always been sounder when they were removed, hence giving up on them.

Hope I can get the farrier soon, but I guess he should look at the x-rays, although there are negligible changes to see?
 
The farrier or even a trimmer should come out as a matter of urgency if you explain the pain your horse is in with the laminitis. I would explain the circumstances. X-rays are probably not amazingly helpful if there is no rotation, although they might help get her feet in a more correct alignment.

Sue
 
I just don't get why the vet is SO against me getting her feet looked at. Her toes are very long and she is down on her heels, the angles are bad, (but I'm no expert)
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No wonder she's sore then :(. I would go as far to say that refusing to let you have her feet trimmed is neglegent :eek: :mad:

The thrush would have made her uncomfortable having frog pads on. Once she's had her trim though i'd still go for boots and pads - they saved the life of our laminitic pony.

Did you post a while ago asking about her feet and thrush etc? I vaguely remember a post on a lame horse living in a school with bad feet (and poss pictures cos I'm sure I remember a very flared foot with bad thrush, long toes and underrun heels.

To give you an idea of what the foot SHOULD look like with a laminitic trim, this is out shetland X with a good lamintic trim. He had 15degree of rotation in both feet but still eventually grew out an entirely new and healthy foot capsule - sadly I never got a picture somewhere in the middle showing the most incredible change in angle.

Showpics20thJuly097.jpg


Showpics20thJuly025.jpg


note the abcess tracks in the toes :(
Showpics20thJuly098.jpg


(p.s he can to us from a 'riding school' because he was 'too lazy' - well yes, he probably would be 'lazy' with acute laminitis :( :mad: We had to carry him across the yard to the stable and the owner who dropped him off just told us he was 'a bit sore cos a severe trim' and didn't think he was laminitic. :mad: )
 
I have to say that I agree with everything Kallibear has said.

You must get her feet trimmed soon.

Lamanitic horses do get a lot of relief from standing on pea gravel. It needs to be at least 4 inches thick and 10mm diameter.

I'ts a lot of shovelling but they love it.
 
Kallibear, yes that was my horse with the awful feet, I was worried about it then and said to the vet I wanted the farrier to come. She said DON'T even think about it. I have managed to clear the thrush, but that's all.

Anyway I'm calling him this morning, he is an examiner and very very competent (new farrier) and I'm sure won't make her worse than she is.

I will tell the vet I'm going to but if she doesn't like it then tough, I can't stand the sight of her feet any more!
 
Right spoken to the farrier and he's coming next week (kind of wanted to beg him to come today, but didnt feel I could :( ) Next call the vet...
 
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My horse had his first attack this year his toes were 2x longer than they should be ( vets words not mine ) He was due to be shod by my farrier the same week. We had to postpone. Anyway his recovery was quite slow so when he was a little less sore I had him shod. New farrier recommended by the vet. He went sound virtually days after. And so far so good. His feet look great. Hope it works for you but my farrier did say that long toes would make things worse. Hope your mare is better soon.
 
Thanks (and fingers crossed for an improvement when her feet are done like yours BHW).

The new farrier is very very experienced - he's done a friends horses for years and wont take on new clients, but friend begged very effectively :D so he agreed to take on mine. He is an examiner for the farriers council (or whatever its called) and is a remedial farrier etc etc. I have confidence that he is the right person to look at the horse and of course will be doing her going forward.

The vet has yet to call back, but irrespective of what she says the hooves are going to be done! Just wish I'd ignored her and done it sooner but she was/is so adamant that they should be left til the horse is sound
 
Success! :) Feet have been done and look a world better :) . The new farrier was fab and managed to do them without any real problems. (Luckily she has been a little less lame in the last couple of days which helped) I've seen her mooch off round the school and she looks none the worse for her pedicure. :) :) They must feel odd to her but hopefully more comfortable
 
Ive been following all your threads with interest, but never posted on them before.
Really pleased that your girl is feeling better with her new toes! Any piccys? Im fascinated by lami feet - bit wierd I know! x
 
0ldmare said:
Success! :) Feet have been done and look a world better :) . The new farrier was fab and managed to do them without any real problems. (Luckily she has been a little less lame in the last couple of days which helped) I've seen her mooch off round the school and she looks none the worse for her pedicure. :) :) They must feel odd to her but hopefully more comfortable
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Really pleased for your horse, and you.
 
Thanks! Its ridiculous to feel so thrilled just because my horses feet have been done, but they do look sooo much better :) I was hating seeing them how they were

Rosehip I'll take photo, but please dont expect perfection even now - just a massive amount better than they were!

Farrier also confirmed I've also managed to clear up her thrush so thats one less thing to worry about
 
Hi Oldmare,

You mentioned that you didn't think her diet was a problem as she only gets soaked hay.....
Residual toxins can stay in the body if her digestive and waste (liver/kidney etc) systems are not working properly. Also hay itself can have a toxin problem if it was fertilised (especially nitrate type)before harvest.
No trim or shoe will sort out the laminitis as the ''hoof part'' of the problem is just a symptom of a wider metabolic/system problem.
I know she is not eating this at the moment, but you mentioned:
Hi Fi is molassed (yep - check the back of the bag!) and has preservatives in it.
Sugarbeet / derivatives of sugarbeet are usually full of chemicals - the beet is very difficult (almost impossible) to grow organically, and has to be sprayed numerous times to protect the crop from pests.
I really like the feed from thunderbrook
www.thunderbrook.co.uk
as it is free of chemicals, preservatives, cereals, molasses and alfa (lucerne) - a great feed for sensitive horses.

Good Luck
 
Might add that the hoof care is obviously important from the point of view of keeping her comfortable, but meant that its not the full answer - only about 20-30% of the picture :)
 
Thanks Caroline, she's not even being offered Hi Fi Lite any more (no point since she wouldnt even consider eating it) and is just having Happy Hoof on its own, which she quite likes although leaves all the 'nuts' bits as she's convinced I might have hidden a pill in them :D .

I didnt know that about the hay, but it was tested and the results showed it had 10% sugar in its unsoaked state so hopefully 12 hours of soaking is making it lo-cal enough

She definitely seems more comfortable after her foot trim, but still obviously lame.

The big problem I'm going to have is that next weekend the hunt is very very close by and that, combined with fireworks, is going to make her very hyper. I'm wondering whether I should talk to the vet about giving her sedalin to take the edge off, otherwise even if she's stabled, she's going to go a bit crazy - she absolutely LOVED hunting and just wants to go with them!
 
Just caught up with your thread and can't really add much but to wish you all the best with her!

I would definately ask the vet for some Sedalin - I always ask for some before Fireworks night and it's usual to be given to Lami's as well
 
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