Hoof Experts advice needed!

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kat2290

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I will try and be as informative with this as possible!

Horse in question is not mine, but I have been helping out with him most days with the owner for the last couple of months. Patrick is a 16yr old ID, owner has had him since he was 4 and has never had any problems with lameness or laminitis etc so this is all new to her. As far as I know he had always worn shoes up until about october time last year. Owner has very bad arthritis so patrick was being ridden less and less, until the point he was hardly ever ridden at all so owner decided to remove shoes. All was fine and patrick was sound.

I started riding Patrick in April, however it was very very light work. Usually only 15 minutes at a time in either walk or trot. I am a novice myself so have been taking things very slow! A more experienced friend also rode him a few times in april, but again mainly just in walk and trot with the odd canter. Sessions were never more than 30 mins, usually a lot less, and this was all in the school which has a rubber surface.

He had been ridden probably a total of 8 times in a few weeks when we first noticed a bit of lameness. Coming in from the field we noticed he was not right in his Offside fore we picked hooves out and walked him round again and he seemed totally fine. We assumed it had just been a stone and didn't think anything of it. I took him in to the school the same day, he was fine in walk but I couldnt get him trotting at all. I think I managed about one lap of the school in trot and then after that I couldnt get him trotting again for love nor money. I didn't really think much of it at the time as with me being a beginner it is not unusual for me not to be able to get a horse trotting! I thought he was just trying it on! Turned him back out and all seemed fine.

The next day when we went to bring him in he was lame again and this is when alarm bells started ringing. However the unusual thing was that is was just going up and down hill, on the flat he was fine. To get from the yard to the field we have to walk down quite a steep hill, he is obviously uncomfortable going up and coming down this slope, he takes shorter strides and frequently appears to trip on his offside foreleg. We rang the farrier but unfortunately he couldnt fit us in for two weeks. He has remained not right for these two weeks, not hopping lame but clearly uncomfortable going up or down the slope, on the flat he is generally fine. He has not been ridden since the day in the school when I couldnt get him trotting.

Today was the day of the farrier visit. When we turned up at the field he was cantering around without a care in the world, but to our disappointment when we brought him in he was still lame... this time on the near fore :(

When we explained the problems to the farrier his first thought was perhaps it was navicular, but said how about if we try putting shoes back on the fronts and see how it goes. He started with the near fore, didnt think it looked too bad and Patrick wasn't phased when he used the hoof testers. When he came to do the off fore he was a bit concerned. He said the white line was stretched and that it also looked like there had been a tear. When he used the hoof testers on this hoof patrick was clearly uncomfortable. Farrier said lets try shoes anyway and worst case scenario if he is unhappy he can come straight back and remove them. Patrick didnt seem to fussed when the shoe went on and after the farrier was done we walked him round and he seemed ok. Farrier said to see how it goes. When we took him back to the field he seemed more forwards on the flat than he has been, and going down the slope he seemed better in some places but in others he was just as footy as he has been.

I took some photos after the farrier was finished but I'm sorry they aren't great as they were a bit of a last minute decision, plus we took them after he has been walked around so his hooves were dirty again by this point.

Offside Fore:



Farrier says the chip is just superficial?


Near Fore:




Near Hind:




Off Hind:




I hope I havent left out anything too vital, if I have please ask. I think owner is planning on leaving Patrick for a few days to see how it goes and if no change the next step will be to get the vet out. The purpose of this thread really is just so we can educate ourselves a bit more, so if you see or read anything that doesn't sit right with you please tell me. I'll be showing the owner the thread and I know she would really appreciate any advice or information you have.

Well done if you got this far! :o
 
I think a stretched white line and the fact that the horse is footy along with the growth rings on his foot pics is shouting laminitis tbh - I'd try getting him off the grass and addressing diet to see if there is any change. The shoes may make him appear sounder, but will also be masking symptoms which means you need to be extra careful.

At his age I'd also consider the onset of cushings and it would probably be worth checking for this as it can affect laminitis.

Arthritis may also be a factor, so a good vet check might just be in order.
 
When you say the farrier mentioned a tear - a tear in what exactly?

It could be pretty much anything, from laminitis to bruising, abscess, arthritis... there's a lot of flare there, which could indicate laminitis, and as touchstone mentioned, at 16 cushings is a real consideration, as is IR.

There is some bruising to the medial heel in both fronts, and it looks like the medial heel is more under run than the lateral heel in pic one.

It's hard to gauge sole depth from pics, but they don't look like particularly thick soles, which could point back to cushings, or simple dietary problems.

What's he fed?
 
Hi thanks for the reply :)

Yes I think perhaps we have rather stupidly been overlooking laminitis as a factor. I think because of the timing with me riding him and him not being used to being in work without shoes on we assumed it was something to do with this. Added to this is the fact that his paddock is really very poor and the grass is struggling to grow, even now that we're having a bit more sunshine is it still very brown and wintery looking.

He has arthritis in his right hock for which he has a sachet on danilon each day in a small feed of beet shreds and a small scoop of leisure mix. He is fussy about feed and I know his owner has had trouble finding something he would eat to put the danilon in.
 
The tear is think he was saying was in the white line? He is quite difficult to understand and I have never met him before so I kept myself quiet and didnt really get involved! I think he said it looked like there has been a bit of bleeding (or would it have been bruising) in the white line?

I'm sorry to be a total numpty but what is IR? Also could you explain what you mean about the heels in laymans terms? This is all very new to me so I'm still not 100% on some of the terms. :o

Do you think we should be getting the vet out?
Thanks :)
 
There is a significant ring on all 4 feet, and especially noticable on the rears (guessing as not been rasped as much) about 1/2 way down. Depending on his horn growth it would suggest something not right about 4ish months ago? The fronts look bull nosed as well as the backs so I would be getting the vet out to run bloods for cushings/EMS etc. and maybe consider looking at the internal workings a bit more.
 
Ah, so the lameness you can see is with the horse on bute? That complicates things a little!

If I were the owner, I'd want him seen by the vet, really. His feed isn't ideal, and if the grass in the paddock is stressed then it will be higher sugar. I think you can still get the cushings test voucher which will give you the lab fees for free, so would definitiely get him tested if you're getting a vet out anyway.

The bullnosing imo looks like its from the farrier rasping the hoof wall, rather than neg angle of p3, but I may be mistaken.

Certainly treating him as though it were laminitis is indicated if there's even a possibility. It will do no harm if it isn't laminitis, and if it is then you'll be very glad you did :).
 
I agree with the above - laminitis must be ruled out as the cause for his lameness. Footyness in unshod horses is sometimes mistaken for 'this horse needs shoes' rather than the early signs of laminitis.

Sessions were never more than 30 mins, usually a lot less, and this was all in the school which has a rubber surface.
Click to expand...

The work stated above, should not make a healthy unshod hoof footy (in fact many unhealthy unshod hooves are fine on a surface). Something else is going on that putting shoes on wont solve (I'd take them off if he was mine as shoes can mask low grade laminitis).
 
Thanks everybody, this is all really useful.

Nugget le poneh - I'm struggling to think of anything which has changed in the last four months although it has just occurred to me that actually the owner did used to use a different type of sugar beet...I'm not sure what type she used to used but she got the shreds instead when she couldn't get hold of the normal stuff. I think this could have been about 4 months ago?

Two stroke - yes I think the bullnosing is from the farrier today, he did rasp them quite a lot. So do you think with the grass struggling to grow this will be making it stressed and therefore more sugars?

Faracat - thanks :) do you think it wouldn't cause him to be footy even considering he has never been worked before without shoes on? It was mentioned to us by another livery that the school surface is actually more abrasive than you might imagine it would be. Because its rubber you automatically think it will be nice and soft but she was saying because it is mixed with grit it can be harsher on their hooves than you think. Not sure if you would agree with this or not?
 
I don't know how hard the rubber surface is that you worked him on, but the ones that I know would be fine.

It's not like you took the horse on a four hour hack over roads and rocky terrain with no building up to that level of work.
 
No it's all been very gentle :o

What do people think about the suggestion of navicular? Does the fact that he already has arthritis make him more likely to develop something like navicular?
 
A weak caudal hoof (weak, contracted heels and under-run heels), plus being shod for many years without a break seem to make a horse more likely to develop navicular. Many people have success with treating navicular by doing a barefoot rehab. Google Rockley Farm for more information.
 
Sorry, missed your reply before. The tear in the white line the farrier describes sounds traumatic (ie an injury), and this could cause the bruising in the white line. By the time it reached the floor though its likely to be old, and not the cause of lameness... Could he have been talking about that chip in the front right?

IR just means insulin resistance, which can cause a horse to become more sensitive to sugar and starch in the diet. The heels were a point of interest, really, rather than anything conclusive. If you look at the sole shots of the front hooves, you can see on one side of each there is a pinkish bit at the tip of the shoe, next to the frog. The underrun heel can be seen in photo 1 if you compare the angle of the heel growth on the outside of the right fore to the inside of the left fore - if that makes sense? This is just evidence which you can use to build up a picture of what's going on in his feet. The bruising may be causing him to weight his outside heels more, which could cause his inside heels to under run. This could also indicate a medio lateral imbalance which could potentially cause lameness. This is all very much a matter of speculation, however, and a vet is really the one to go to for answers :).

Stressed grass can be very high in sugar, so I mentioned it to illustrate that laminitis is still a possibility, even on poor grazing sadly.

Hope you get to the bottom of it!
 
Ok thanks two stroke I think I understand now what you mean about his heels, another thing for me to mention to his owner. I will show her this thread tomorrow and I should think she will be keen to get the vet out.
 
Spoke to owner today, she is going to get the vet out tomorrow and in the mean time has asked me to research a more suitable feed for Patrick (she has problems getting on the Internet).

The only reason he gets a daily feed is to hide his bute in, which at the moment is one sachet a day however we are expecting the vet to suggest upping this to two sachets for the time being (although we could be wrong).

Patrick is v. fussy eater and has also suffered from choke in the past. He hasn't had a bad episode for a couple of years but does occassionaly get mild symptoms which pass after a few minutes.

What would your recommendations for feed be, bearing in mind the current issues with his hooves?

Thanks in advance :)
 
You need to avoid feeds with molasses in and go for ones that are high in fibre. Unfortunately if horses are used to sugary feed, they aren't too impressed when presented with a healthier low sugar/high fibre alternative. They do get used to it though.

I use Hi Fi Molasses Free chaff and speedi beet.
 
Thanks faracat, yes I think he probably has a bit of a sweet tooth so usually turns his nose up at unmollassed feeds. However I do know that he used to be fed speedibeet (then switched to shreds when couldn't get hold of it) so in theory he could go back to that. Is there something similar to leisure mix that is unmollassed and would be ok to mix with the speedibeet to make it more enticing for him?

The other thing I was thinking of suggesting was linseed... Provided he likes it I thought it could help to make the boring unmollassed stuff more palatable to him whilst also being good for his hooves?
 
Some posters on here feed Spillers high fibre cubes and they are supposed to be quite tasty. It can be hard to find unmolassed mixes. Pure feeds do them.
 
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