Hoof growth for shoes - dietary or topical recommendations

dollymix

dollymix

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Hi all

My mare has been unshod behind for a number of years. We lightly hacked with no problems and my blacksmith was happy enough that her feet were maintaining well enough.

We have moved down to Cheshire now and our hacking involves A LOT of roadwork, so her feet have worn down very quickly - looks like she will have to start wearing shoes behind as I don't want her to start struggling.

New farrier had a look and because I have been hacking most days, the foot is currently too short to take a shoe so he has advised no roadwork at all for two weeks and he will come back with some shoes he will manufacture for her. He seems like a great blacksmith, spoke a lot of sense and I have had nothing but recommendations from other liveries so am confident he can sort them out.

I have bought some cornucrescine which I am applying twice daily. She is turned out every day from 7am-6pm and fed a net of hay at night, plus a scoop of alfaA molasses free, a small scoop of speedi-beet, an all round vitmin supplement, turmeric, black pepper and soya oil.

Does anyone have any recommendations for hoof growth? She is a welshie so actually has very good feet, but they just aren't going to stand up to the constant wear of roadwork. The turnout situation is 100% better than my old yard too, so I think the more regular turnout is also probably wearing her foot down more quickly....any topical or dietary recommendations would be great!

Thanks
 
Could you not use hoof boots? I would on my welsh if I could (she just moves better in shoes)

Linseed meal is great for feet growth and quality
 
I would buy a forage plus performance balancer I probably would get the summer one now but I keep mine on the winter a bit longer up here .
My new horse has amazing hoof growth he's on the opti care balancer from gain horse feeds ,he was on it at his old home and was looking so good I kept him on it .
 
My warmblood came to me with terrible feet and the two things that seem to have made a difference are top spec balancer and Keratex supplement. The Keretex comes in powder form and is just mixed into feed. Quite pricey though.
 
Can you slow down on the road work and give her a chance to adjust to the increased road work by upping it slowly?. It's probably the sudden change that's causing the issues and it seems a shame to shoe for the want of a little time to adjust. Road work per se is not normally a problem for barefoot horses, but sudden increases in work often are.
 
ycbm said:
Can you slow down on the road work and give her a chance to adjust to the increased road work by upping it slowly?. It's probably the sudden change that's causing the issues and it seems a shame to shoe for the want of a little time to adjust. Road work per se is not normally a problem for barefoot horses, but sudden increases in work often are.
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Totally agree. My mare is doing 100kms a week on roads barefoot. If she was fine before there's no reason why she won't be again, and a barefoot is generally a lot shorter than a shod foot looks. Is she even having problems or are you just thinking there is going to be one?
 
If i was you i would stick to barfoot but use boots. Don't ruin a good thing! I'm not anti shoes at all, but only if barefoot will NOT work.
 
Seaweed powder and biotin mixed together 50/50. I have fed all the expensive hoof supplements over several years to one nightmare horse and went to this on the advice of my local feed store owner, who has a lifetime experience in the horse world. Me, vet and farrier all amazed at improvement in 4 months. As a bonus it has saved me a fortune!
 
FairyLights said:
any good supplement for hooves TBH. remember it takes 9 months for the hoof to grow from top to bottom.
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Only if it's got a shoe on. Barefoot feet typically grow a complete hoof in four to five months. It depends on how much wear they get, the more wear, the more growth.

Most hoof supplements have iron in them and most horses are already getting too much, and it disrupts copper uptake, which in turn disrupts insulin use and digestion of carbs, which affects the feet. So, any good no iron, high copper and magnesium foot supplement. I think there are now five or six to choose between but I'm out of date which ones they are, other people can probably tell you.
 
Thanks everyone.
She is a little 'footy' behind and starting to pick her way which she's never done previously so yes I think sadly shoes are going to be needed.
 
I am experiencing exactly the same problem. However I am going to boot all round. Annoyingly her bare fronts are fine at the moment. But just booting at the front will cause her to be even more on the fore hand.
 
The hoof will grow in response to the work provided the diet is correct, but work needs to be built up slowly and steadily, it sounds as though you suddenly starting doing more on a hard surface and it was this that caused the rapid wear, the fact the farrier can't shoe her seems to confirm this.
Personally I would start feeding for feet, and walk her in hand for a short time, I mean five to ten minutes and more, as long as there is no footiness, such a short walk will not wear the feet, but will stimulate the inner tissues.
Feed minerals in a plain feed, nothing with molasses, 25gm salt.
If convenient, think about stabling for a couple of hours in the morning, feed soaked hay, as the grass will be hi in sugars, lo in fibre at this time of year, also the grass is low in magnesium, the minerals will provide this essential MgO, Cu etc.
I also like micronised linseed, even 25gms helps skin, hoof and joints, more in winter for condition an slow release energy.
You should be able to ride fairly soon with boots, personally I would have a good think about shoes, they can help in this situation, but I'd far rather try the barefoot regime. I used to ride for an hour every day on the tarmac, and the feet self trimmed, I managed the horse to self trim by building up from short hacks, in fact he was footy on concrete at first and by four weeks he was walking nicely for an hour.
http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/2013/05/what-happens-when-hoof-wall-wears-away.html
 
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ycbm said:
Only if it's got a shoe on. Barefoot feet typically grow a complete hoof in four to five months. It depends on how much wear they get, the more wear, the more growth.

Most hoof supplements have iron in them and most horses are already getting too much, and it disrupts copper uptake, which in turn disrupts insulin use and digestion of carbs, which affects the feet. So, any good no iron, high copper and magnesium foot supplement. I think there are now five or six to choose between but I'm out of date which ones they are, other people can probably tell you.
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Pro Earth pro hoof / Pro Earth minerals for summer / Forageplus. Need to build up over a week, and feed with something like non molassed sugar beet or Fast Fibre, avoid things with misleading names like pasture mix, competition mix, healthy hooves, cut out molasses, cut out cereals.
 
Bonkers2 said:
The hoof will grow in response to the work provided the diet is correct, but work needs to be built up slowly and steadily, it sounds as though you suddenly starting doing more on a hard surface and it was this that caused the rapid wear, the fact the farrier can't shoe her seems to confirm this.
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Thanks for the advice, especially re feeding. Out of interest following on from above, on previous yard she was hacked twice a week on roads for about 45 mins ( we also did some longer hacks which were off road).

on moving to new yard we hack on road more often as we have no bridle paths locally (maybe 4-5 times a week) but initially (certainly for 4 weeks until I found a hacking buddy) we only did say 20-25 minutes. In the past three weeks we have done some longer hacks, adding an extra loop on to make the ride about 40 mins and last weekend we did a longer hack of about hour and half - previously this would have been no bother.

Not arguing... Just genuinely interested as I thought her work had increase fairly slowly?

Re the feeding... She is fed molasses free alfalfa and speedibeet. She also gets turmeric for her hocks (she has Spavins) with black pepper and linseed oil.

Re grazing... She is in at night and out during the day. The latest I can turn out is 8am or I would be late for work. She also has soaked hay currently as being a welsh D, I am Always aware of her weight!
 
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Yes, agree you have built it up gradually, and she does seems to have a good diet, the only answer I can think of is that the new yard is deficient in the hoof minerals required for good hoof growth so she was not able to grow horn fast enough , this in one possibility. The other is [and I am just thinking outside the box a bit] is that she has some sort of metabolic disorder starting, others may comment, you should ask your vet, or at least I would.
What age is she? are there any "other symptoms". are the soles "flexible" ie thin
There should be an event line [easier to see on fronts] where she moved yards.
 
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sport horse said:
Seaweed powder and biotin mixed together 50/50. I have fed all the expensive hoof supplements over several years to one nightmare horse and went to this on the advice of my local feed store owner, who has a lifetime experience in the horse world. Me, vet and farrier all amazed at improvement in 4 months. As a bonus it has saved me a fortune!
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Totally disagree, sry, the seaweed is not balanced for hoof growth, too high in iron and iodine..Use a good balanced mineral mix, and add some micronised linseed [25gms for fatty Section D] and some 25gms salt.
The horse can manufacture its own biotin if it has a good diet, so although biotin is useful when the diet is deficient, the answer is not to add biotin but to adjust the diet.
 
if a horse needs shoes it needs shoes. iron is tougher than hoof and that gets worn down. I'm fed up with all the rubbish spouted by BF people and the cruelty they inflict. Seen it at yards where I live poor footy horses with owners insisting they are ok or that they will adjust. if that were the case then no one would have started to shoe then in the first place . Its time the RSPCA got involved and prosecuted people for inflicting pain on their horses.
 
FairyLights said:
if a horse needs shoes it needs shoes. iron is tougher than hoof and that gets worn down. I'm fed up with all the rubbish spouted by BF people and the cruelty they inflict. Seen it at yards where I live poor footy horses with owners insisting they are ok or that they will adjust. if that were the case then no one would have started to shoe then in the first place . Its time the RSPCA got involved and prosecuted people for inflicting pain on their horses.
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I can agree that many people should not just ride their horses without shoes because they are not coping [for variuos reasons], but all horses are barefoot when born, and puting shoes on youngsters can lead to problems That debate is for another thread.
This horse is a SectionD and has good hoof quality, and has previously been barefoot behind for years, so something has happened to change that situation, it is just as important to find out why as it is to get back to a sound and happy horse.
 
FairyLights said:
if a horse needs shoes it needs shoes. iron is tougher than hoof and that gets worn down. I'm fed up with all the rubbish spouted by BF people and the cruelty they inflict. Seen it at yards where I live poor footy horses with owners insisting they are ok or that they will adjust. if that were the case then no one would have started to shoe then in the first place . Its time the RSPCA got involved and prosecuted people for inflicting pain on their horses.
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I can agree that many people should not just ride their horses without shoes because they are not coping [for variuos reasons], but all horses are barefoot when born, and puting shoes on youngsters can lead to problems That debate is for another thread. Horses were nearly all shod when working in big cities in the 19th Century, and for several reasons, owners did not understand about diet, the horses had to work for a living so no sympathetic management was possible, also they were stabled all the time, often on dirty beds, so no doubt poor hoof growth and disease. The Mongolian horsemen of today don't shoe, they never have done, OK the ponies who can't cope will be put down, but that is survival of the fittest and the survivors improve overall breed hardiness. Their diet is minimal, no lush pastures no sugary feedstuffs. No stabling..

This horse is a SectionD and has good hoof quality, and has previously been barefoot behind for years, so something has happened to change that situation. Whether it needs shoes or not is not quite as important as determining if something is going on. One advantage of the barefoot horse over shod is that any changes are more obvious to the concerned and intelligent owner.
 
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Bonkers2 said:
Totally disagree, sry, the seaweed is not balanced for hoof growth, too high in iron and iodine..Use a good balanced mineral mix, and add some micronised linseed [25gms for fatty Section D] and some 25gms salt.
The horse can manufacture its own biotin if it has a good diet, so although biotin is useful when the diet is deficient, the answer is not to add biotin but to adjust the diet.
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You can disagree if you like, but fact is fact ie the horses hooves are revolutionised. I do have a top equine vet and farrier involved. What are your qualifications?
 
FairyLights said:
if a horse needs shoes it needs shoes. iron is tougher than hoof and that gets worn down. I'm fed up with all the rubbish spouted by BF people and the cruelty they inflict. Seen it at yards where I live poor footy horses with owners insisting they are ok or that they will adjust. if that were the case then no one would have started to shoe then in the first place . Its time the RSPCA got involved and prosecuted people for inflicting pain on their horses.
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Its funny because I would say I have seen too many poor, crippled horses with expensive remedial shoes on who can't even leave their box if they lose a shoe which they do every couple of weeks. Should the RSPCA get involved there?

OP - it sounds like you have built up the work gradually so I would be looking at other changes. Stabling for instance - has the bedding changed? The grazing or hay / haylage on the new yard may be much higher in sugar?
 
I didn't think it was arguable that seaweed was too high in iodine or that most UK pasture is already high in iron so adding more is usually to be avoided.

OP although you increased it slowly I would suggest that for whatever reason it has just been a bit too quick for her, I think it is then your choice if you want to rectify that with boots or shoes, however hard I try I can't do enough roadwork to trim my welshie!

also is she getting more turnout? As the grass in now growing it is possible that hasn't helped.

Fairylights I can't see it bad to explore why it might need shoes to start with and see if there is anything to be changed. It sadly seems you have come across some people who aren't doing it with the horse's welfare in mind. There is no reason for transitioning to be a welfare issue.
 
laura_nash said:
OP - it sounds like you have built up the work gradually so I would be looking at other changes. Stabling for instance - has the bedding changed? The grazing or hay / haylage on the new yard may be much higher in sugar?
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She is having more turnout now than before and has gone from haylage (soaked) to hay (also soaked). Other than that her bedding etc is the same

I'd say she is a bit lack lustre too tbh. She is very spirited usually but feeling a bit lethargic. But I think the turnout in a herd is tiring her out. She is doing a lot of running around as she integrates into the herd!
 
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dollymix said:
I'd say she is a bit lack lustre too tbh. She is very spirited usually but feeling a bit lethargic. But I think the turnout in a herd is tiring her out. She is doing a lot of running around as she integrates into the herd!
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Maybe all the running around out in the field is wearing her feet down! It may also be stress from the changes as I find anything that upsets the gut can make my horse a bit footy. Shoeing would obviously resolve the issue short term, but if you go down that route I would be looking to try her without again at some point (maybe over the winter if you are hacking out less then so you can try building up the work gradually again for next summer). Linseed (micronised ideally) is great for hooves and might also help perk her up, assuming she isn't overweight.
 
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dollymix said:
She is having more turnout now than before and has gone from haylage (soaked) to hay (also soaked). Other than that her bedding etc is the same

I'd say she is a bit lack lustre too tbh. She is very spirited usually but feeling a bit lethargic. But I think the turnout in a herd is tiring her out. She is doing a lot of running around as she integrates into the herd!
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I think she should have settled down by now, is it worth thinking about a cushings test or similar metabolic disorder. Of course it may be the sore feet are causing her to be less carefree, the chicken/egg question
 
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FairyLights said:
if a horse needs shoes it needs shoes. iron is tougher than hoof and that gets worn down. I'm fed up with all the rubbish spouted by BF people and the cruelty they inflict. Seen it at yards where I live poor footy horses with owners insisting they are ok or that they will adjust. if that were the case then no one would have started to shoe then in the first place . Its time the RSPCA got involved and prosecuted people for inflicting pain on their horses.
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People need to look at weather they are treating a symptom or the cause. Most people forget that when looking for a quick fix. A lot of us look to do what will give our horse the best long term cure.
 
Bonkers2 said:
B.A. S.D.D.H, PgD.IT, PgD.I.M. [impressive eh?:)]

http://forageplus.co.uk/should-you-feed-your-horse-seaweed/
http://www.equi-therapy.net/equi-therapy/nutrition/seaweed-supplements-for-horses.shtml
http://******.com/newsletters/20-seaweed-miracle-or-con.html
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Very impressive qualifications I am sure but forgive me for sticking with my vet, farrier and the evidence of my own eyes and over 50 years of personal experience.

The articles that you attached do not say 'not to feed seaweed' but as with all supplements do not overfeed anything. The third article did not open.

My own horse has improved hooves in a truly remarkable way after 4 months of seaweed and biotin. The farrier can actually feel the density of the hoof is vastly improved by the feel he gets as he is nailing in. We have kept two sets of front shoes on for 5 weeks each for the first time in four years. Same farrier all through. The hind feet are unshod and the soles have thickened considerably and the feet are no longer breaking up. The hard evidence is in front of our eyes. Prior to this, I have used Keratex Feed Supplement for two years (which has always given me excellent results over the years but not with this horse) and another well known hoof supplement that also failed to help.

Maybe my experience will help someone else maybe it wont - I hope that if someone is in trouble they may be open minded enough to try something that has worked for someone else. It is their choice.
 
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