Hoof help please! *pic*

cptrayes said:
Ditto all the nutritional advice except

DO NOT feed seaweed unless you are sure that your grazing/forage are low enough in iron, manganese and iodine. Seaweed can overload all three and cause insulin use problems and thryroid issues.

It is perfectly clear from the photo that this horse is DESPERATE to grow a different angle of foot from the one it has got. Look at the top half inch of growth, and see how much it deviates from that angle, very suddenly, at about the half inch mark. I believe that it will be the stresses of having feet at the wrong angle that will be causing these cracks, on top of a probable mineral imbalance and/or sugar tolerance problem.

I only know one surefire way to fix that imbalance and that is to get the horse barefoot. And before anyone screams - how can a horse with cracks like that go barefoot, I've seen a WORSE one, with crossover cloven-hoof effect, and lame in shoes to boot, be cured in one hoof growth cycle. Nic Barker can show you photos of Bailey if you email her from the rockleyfarm.co.uk site.

OP your farrier is off his rocker if he thinks those feet are OK, sorry :( I think you need to take quick action to prevent your horse becoming, and staying, lame.
Click to expand...

Ditto this.
 
my understanding is that horse pasture does NOT need to be fertilised and I will check as to why but my sisters horse was really ill. She had not realised it had been done in a previous season(nitrogen). Farmers will often do this on cattle pasture but again horses do not need it.

But I will find out why but I know a lot of horse people that do...I dont but when I first got my field the farmer was very keen to do this.

I am not meaning topping and weeding etc just the fertiliser part..would be good to find out if the grass has been treated as when my sister found it the vet could then sort her very sick horse out..they thought she was diabetic initially and went from being a really easy horse to one out of control rearing etc etc and really ill. Its strange if you think their is a link with this poor hoof problem in the past???
 
saddlesore said:
Question from me though re the over fertilised grass....... It does get fertilised each year, is that bad? Just asking because last summer I had problems with my horse's feet and he got white line disease and I struggled to keep shoes on him. For whatever reason they seem better this year although not as good as winter time? I had pretty much attributed that to the hard ground and the heat of late :confused:
QUOTE]

Copied from another site - explains it much better than I could.
The species of grass present in a pasture depends on the conditions - you get the species that do best in the available conditions. High fertility favours rye grass which is very high in sugar and pretty low in fibre (low fibre levels will I suspect ultimately prove to be just as big an issue as high sugar levels). Heavily fertilised pastures can end up being something like 90% rye grass. In contrast, pasture that hasn't been fertilised for 15+ years may have 0% rye grass, having instead lots of species that are lower in sugar and higher in fibre. Not only that, but with lower fertility you get far more species in total (perhaps 100+ compared to under 5 for a typical dairy pasture) and hence a more varied diet. Some of those species also have deep roots which are better at extracting trace elements from deep in the soil that tend to be deficient in heavily fertilised pastures.
Click to expand...
 
I would love to get my trimmer to you to give you a second opinion on this. Would you consider a recommended barefoot person having a look?
 
Basically, Lucy and cptrayes have covered all the bases on this one.

The event lines are quite obvious, indicating there is a lot going on here. Cptrayes highlights the flare in the hoof after about an inch from the coronet band.

What the farrier has done would seem the obvious thing to do, staple the cracks, but the forces involved wont let it happen.

I agree that this is dietary and the feet a symptom. Though an absess breaking out through the coronet band could not be discounted, even if this is the case I'd still be of the opinion that diet is the biggest problem here.

My course of action would be ad lib well soaked hay, minerals as per Lucy P.

I'd get the shoes off as a matter of urgency, treat with an anti fungal, get the hoof trimmed a little, more of a tidy up, then get some boots on it and do as much exercise, in the form of walking, as your backside can stand. If you don't want to ride it, walk it about 10 miles a day. 6 months should see it somewhere near right.
 
intouch said:
Copied from another site - explains it much better than I could.
The species of grass present in a pasture depends on the conditions - you get the species that do best in the available conditions. High fertility favours rye grass which is very high in sugar and pretty low in fibre (low fibre levels will I suspect ultimately prove to be just as big an issue as high sugar levels). Heavily fertilised pastures can end up being something like 90% rye grass. In contrast, pasture that hasn't been fertilised for 15+ years may have 0% rye grass, having instead lots of species that are lower in sugar and higher in fibre. Not only that, but with lower fertility you get far more species in total (perhaps 100+ compared to under 5 for a typical dairy pasture) and hence a more varied diet. Some of those species also have deep roots which are better at extracting trace elements from deep in the soil that tend to be deficient in heavily fertilised pastures.
Click to expand...


Thanks for sharing, that makes so much sense! I'm really happy at my yard so won't be moving but will definitely be looking into supplementing his diet. Thanks for all the advice given, very helpful and informative :)
 
Spoken to my friend. She spoke to the vet today and is taking her horse there next Thursday to see the remedial farrier. She is also going to put him on a biotin supplement. Thanks again for all the help, she was really worried and felt akward at getting a second opinion but has now felt able to do so :)
 
Just make sure your friend knows what Biotin is and does (it's a water soluble B vitamin) - and bear in mind the comments about copper, zinc and magnesium
 
I showed hubby pics quickly last night (he's a farrier). His comments were that it is a terrible case of seedy toe - the whole of the crumbling front wall needs cutting right away and back and the horse possibly shod in a natural balance shoe or eggbar. This hasn't happened in just 2 months - the final coronary split damage may have but the seedy toe is months old.
The staple is doing nothing and the shoes are not supporting the hoof.
I am sure your vet and remedial farrier will say the same.
 
Remedial farriery will take you down a long slow path. Take the advice of experienced people here about taking shoes off and booting for a while. I suggest looking to rockley farm.
 
hi i have not reead the replys so sorry if im repeating my self, its going to be a long process of elimanation, starting with diet, high firbe and high oil , no grass , or grass less turn out are going to be the key, lots of hay, those feet are going to need the stimulation that movement can provide, "if" it were me id get the shoes off asap and pad them up, they start off as a normal foot but the shoes might be pulling the hoof wall away form the tubles, and making them break off, ive explained it im very basic terms, whats happening to them atm is simply a bad aid approach to deal with the problem in the short term, 6 months and i have those feet turned around but i am a hoof geek, :D good luck,
 
Interesting thread, I am sure that either the farrier route with a good farrier and vet, or the barefoot route with a good trimmer and vet will work given time. So it's a matter of choice. I'd go barefoot in a flash faced with those hooves I must admit, but we all do what we are most confident with.
I echo what Lucy Priory said, the advice re diet is meant to be taken as a whole, biotin won't deal with some of the other elements that may be required.
 
I understand that biotin itself won't fix the problems, but friend is much younger than me and on a budget - especially now the vet and other farrier are involved! I guess if he starts on that now its a step in the right direction and see what vet/farrier advise next week. Perhaps it would even be able to go through her insurance?

However, as a result of this thread I'm now going to start my boy on a boadbased vit/min supplement to help with his WLD, although it is much better this year than last but I assume its also grazing related. Very interesting thread - I've learned a lot! :)
 
I just wrote a saga and lost it so I'll just say that Farriers and Trimmers and can trim, fancy shoe, staple, fill etc. all they like but in my experience, with a horse that seems to have similar issues, any improvement will be tempory unless diet and especailly sugar/starch intake is aggressively addressed at least in the short term.
I have been jolted into seeing that my horse was on the edge for a very long time before her hooves collapsed earlier this year, I just didn't or couldn't see it. It wont happen again if I can help it. If she has to remain on soaked hay for the rest of her life so be it.

Lesson in biotin needed now, off to find out more. :( I've only just started it.
 
I'll back up AmandaP here.

You can give a horse all the vitamins and minerals you like but it isn't going to grow good feet if it can't cope with the amount of sugar (no 1 but not only culprit,grass) in its diet.

I don't think that any horse gets feet that bad because of a minor vitamin or mineral imbalance.

And don't be fooled, the seedy toe is not the cause, it is a symptom of the same diet problem. Horses on perfect diets don't get white line disease (seedy toe is white line disease at the toe).
 
cptrayes said:
And don't be fooled, the seedy toe is not the cause, it is a symptom of the same diet problem. Horses on perfect diets don't get white line disease (seedy toe is white line disease at the toe).
Click to expand...
Yes, I imagine all the hooves with poor white line (lamina attachment), seedy toe, cracks, flat feet, repeated ripples in the wall, sore feet, and even thrush could be improved beyond recognition with attention to correct diet. All the things I've listed as cptrayes says are symptoms of overall distress in the horses physiology.
I suppose thinking about it the hooves get the biggest pounding of all the parts of a horse so will often be the first to fail when things aren't right in the whole system.
 
Hi everyone

Thanks for the posts but just a few lil things...

ive had my pony for 5 years now and ponys before who have never been fed in summer and through winter was just basic feed and theyve never went like this before?

Im not blaming it on my farrier, would just like him to say a bit more than awww there fine they needto grow. Went to vets yesterday and a good farrier goes down there next thursday, vets did say that they do need to grow and a pic of something that is so 3D is nt gd to go on and if i want a 2nd opinion then it wnt do any harm. so am just going to wait untill next thursday and take it from there :)!

Thankyou
 
oh and hes been in since monday gets out a couple of hours in morning then in for the rest and should i keep riding him just now or rest the feet :-S? dont wanto keep riding and making it even worse?
 
amandap said:
Yes, I imagine all the hooves with ...flat feet....could be improved beyond recognition with attention to correct diet. All the things I've listed as cptrayes says are symptoms of overall distress in the horses physiology.
I suppose thinking about it the hooves get the biggest pounding of all the parts of a horse so will often be the first to fail when things aren't right in the whole system.
Click to expand...

Flat feet? I'd be really interested to hear more about that if you have a minute :)

J&C
 
Flat feet are very often due to stretched laminae allowing the bones to drop inside the foot and flatten the sole. If you improve the health of the laminae they tighten up and raise the bone inside the hoof capsule and the feet get more concavity. Many of us see barefoot horses who have noticeabley more concavity in the winter when the grass is poor than in the summer, where the sugar/carbs in the grass affect the laminae. While truly flat feet take a hoof cycle or so to rebuild a proper depth, it is possible (mad though it sounds) to see concavity changes from week to week as your horse's food changes.

I have one horse whose feet were flat all summer, every summer. When I realised that we have an overload of manganese, which prevents copper absorption, I started feeding copper. Copper is used in insulin regulation, to digest sugar. He has never had flat feet in summer since and there were no other changes in his diet to cause this.
 
Last edited:
MeganMx said:
Hi everyone

Thanks for the posts but just a few lil things...

ive had my pony for 5 years now and ponys before who have never been fed in summer and through winter was just basic feed and theyve never went like this before?

Im not blaming it on my farrier, would just like him to say a bit more than awww there fine they needto grow. Went to vets yesterday and a good farrier goes down there next thursday, vets did say that they do need to grow and a pic of something that is so 3D is nt gd to go on and if i want a 2nd opinion then it wnt do any harm. so am just going to wait untill next thursday and take it from there :)!

Thankyou
Click to expand...

You can't compare one horse with another, they are all different even if kept exactly the same. Some can cope better than others.

But if you've had your pone for 5 years with no trouble, and changed NOTHING about how you feed him, then I would strongly suspect that he has a metabolic issue that you do not know about.

Are you sure you have not started using a field that he hasn't been on before?
Did it get fertilized last year or early this year for the first time?
Is it more or less heavily grazed now (shorter or longer) than it has been in other years?
Was he out last winter eating frozen grass, and is that different from other winters?
Is he fat (be honest!) ?
Does he hold his winter coat in summer?
Does he ever tie up - go stiff after or during being ridden?
Does he go funny or footie if you give him wormers?
Does he eat a lot, very fast and still seem ravenous even though he has just eaten?

That's for starters, other people can probably suggest some other sensible questions.
 
Hi,
I think looking at the front of the hoof it has to much stress with a low heel syndrome, non existant frog or thrush causing a crack to open under toe pressure. A removal of all dead toe and fitting a heart-bar shoe to load the frog and heels more taking pressure from the toe should help to heal the crack at the corany band. It will take some time.You need a farrier who can do this work. Hope i have been of some help.
 
MeganMx said:
Hi everyone

Thanks for the posts but just a few lil things...

ive had my pony for 5 years now and ponys before who have never been fed in summer and through winter was just basic feed and theyve never went like this before?
Click to expand...

I would strongly recommend Topspec lite. It is brilliant for providing all the nutrients a good doer needs. It states on the bag that it will also improve the quality of new hoof growth - I didn't think much about that when I changed over from feeding lo cal (just wanted even fewer calories!) but my goodness the rate my mare's feet grew after the change was very noticeable!!

I'm sorry your horse is suffering so. Please keep us updated with some pics and let us know how he gets on :)
 
I'd be interested to hear who your farrier was, I'm quite close to your area! I can recommend an excellent remedial farrier although you've probably found one now, the same guy does vet school horses. I know people that feed blue chip or carriers formula with great results .
 
Puppy said:
I would strongly recommend Topspec lite. It is brilliant for providing all the nutrients a good doer needs. It states on the bag that it will also improve the quality of new hoof growth - I didn't think much about that when I changed over from feeding lo cal (just wanted even fewer calories!) but my goodness the rate my mare's feet grew after the change was very noticeable!!

I'm sorry your horse is suffering so. Please keep us updated with some pics and let us know how he gets on :)
Click to expand...

Would you mind copying the ingrediants of this feed for me?

You can PM it if you like, it's for a database.
 
cptrayes said:
Flat feet are very often due to stretched laminae allowing the bones to drop inside the foot and flatten the sole. If you improve the health of the laminae they tighten up and raise the bone inside the hoof capsule and the feet get more concavity. Many of us see barefoot horses who have noticeabley more concavity in the winter when the grass is poor than in the summer, where the sugar/carbs in the grass affect the laminae. While truly flat feet take a hoof cycle or so to rebuild a proper depth, it is possible (mad though it sounds) to see concavity changes from week to week as your horse's food changes.

I have one horse whose feet were flat all summer, every summer. When I realised that we have an overload of manganese, which prevents copper absorption, I started feeding copper. Copper is used in insulin regulation, to digest sugar. He has never had flat feet in summer since and there were no other changes in his diet to cause this.
Click to expand...

Oh! That makes total sense! So, what can I add to diet of my chap, who has rather large, plate-like, flat feet :o He is currently on 24/7 turnout (:o) on ok, but not fantastic grass, feed high fibre cubes and a quarter of a scoop of whole oats, with some lime flour. Presumably something high in copper would help him? (This is especially useful, as I am currently doing a research project on the copper content of various hard feeds, and whether they are as advertised on the sacks ;))

J&C
 
cpt... in what form do you feed copper? You can get licks can't you but I wondered if you added it in tablet/powder form?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top