hoof issues... can anyone reccomend me something??

[Arniebear]

can anyone recommend me something to help prevent this happening again?? like a good hoof moist or any supplements i could perhaps add to his feed??

you guys are always helpful so i thought i'd post it here

*note* shoe has been removed by farrier, so he cannot injure himself!

 

[Arniebear]

sorry for the big pic and my bad on the awful spelling i meant to say recommend!!!

 

[Nocturnal]

Do you have any side on pictures of the foot? Its hard to tell from this angle, but it looks like the heels are quite long & the shoe looks too small - or is it twisted?

I would recommend a barefoot diet, but the shoeing looks like it may also be causing issues (or more issues than shoeing has to cause, anyway ).

 

[Arniebear]

ooo forgot to mention he is due for shoeing this week!! unfortunatly i dont have a side on view and hes had the shoe taken off now! (didnt think of that!!)
all his other feet are fine and this is the first time this has happened, he hasnt even pulled a shoe since ive had him (7months).

he does however have horrible TB feet! this particular foot is boxed shaped, the rest arent.

i was just wandering if there was anything i could put on like a good hoof moist to help his feet be less brittle??

barefoot isnt really an option

 

[be positive]

He has a fair amount of event lines in his foot, these may be due to changes of diet and the part of his foot that has broken is on one of these lines, the nail holes are on it.
Diet is key to improving his horn quality, low sugar and starch with good quality minerals and vitamins, possibly a supplement to support his feet.
Putting oils will not make any difference and may possibly make them worse, water is the only thing they really need on them.
Your farrier could try putting shoes on that have quarter clips, these will help support a bit more rather than just a toe clip that may move too much.

 

[TigerTail]

Why is barefoot not really an option? Because a farrier has told you so? Because everyone says TB's have crappy feet? Because you have educated yourself on the subject, got a professional on side and had them evaluate his feet?

You will always eventually get cracks from putting a nail in something because it creates a hole, a weak spot. Same as putting a nail in a fencing rail.

Hoof health comes from diet and environment, not products you put on their feet

 

[Arniebear]

thank you be positive, farrier is out on wed so will have a chat with him in more detail

when u say event lines im assuming you mean the lines that go around his hoof? they look a little like the ring lines on trees to see how old a tree is?! is this just the growth of the hoof??

clealry i know nothing in detail about feet!

as for his diet he is fed on conditioning mix and alfa a, hes been on this since ive had him he also gets pink powder, is this a good diet?? or bad?? in regards to his feet??

sorry for all the qus

thanks again

 

[Nocturnal]

TBs are not born with horrible feet. They're made that way through poor diet, environment, and of course shoeing from a young age. They can be fixed, but it takes a lot of dedication and an open mind.

 

[Miss L Toe]

ooo forgot to mention he is due for shoeing this week!! unfortunatly i dont have a side on view and hes had the shoe taken off now! (didnt think of that!!)
all his other feet are fine and this is the first time this has happened, he hasnt even pulled a shoe since ive had him (7months).

he does however have horrible TB feet! this particular foot is boxed shaped, the rest arent.

i was just wandering if there was anything i could put on like a good hoof moist to help his feet be less brittle??

barefoot isnt really an option

Is he on three shod feet and one unshod? losing a shoe is an occupational hazard [with shod horses]

The picture tells a sorry story, all those growth rings indicate problems of ill health and/or an irregular feed regime, I expect the Barefoot Taliban will give you a more expert opinion.

Please,please, please do not fall for this "typical TB feet", I used to work in NH racing and it was rare to find a horse with poor feet, of course they were fed with a scientific diet, a lot of work, good forage, and good farrier.
It is possible that shoeing racehorses at age two is contributing to long term problems but if you don't try you don't get [my horse was in a right state when I bought him, but looks great now, it has taken four years!]
The barefoot diet [now being adopted by mainstream dieticians] is high fibre lo sugar, no cereals, and balanced minerals all the year round, here is a basic daily feed which can be fed in summer:
1gk Fast fibre
100gmsmicronised linseed meal
tablespoon salt
25-50gm of a mineral supplement: Equimins Advance, or Laminator [lush grass]
Dengie non molassed lo alfa Chaff just a double handful.
15gms Magnesium Oxide [Ebay]
I think you will need an expert opinion re the box foot.
Personally, I would make sure he gets his vits and mins for six weeks, by which time he will have been in his next set of shoes for six weeks, remove the shoes, rasp round edges but do NOT allow farrier to pare frogs or sole, and see how it goes. You will get plenty of support on here, but you can buy "First Feet" to increase your understanding of "FEET"!

 

[0310Star]

Why is barefoot not really an option? Because a farrier has told you so? Because everyone says TB's have crappy feet? Because you have educated yourself on the subject, got a professional on side and had them evaluate his feet?

You will always eventually get cracks from putting a nail in something because it creates a hole, a weak spot. Same as putting a nail in a fencing rail.

Hoof health comes from diet and environment, not products you put on their feet

THIS!!!
My mare (also a TB) had this exact problem last summer, feet some exactl;y as your picture shows and one day one of the shoe's fell off!
I decided barefoot was most definitely the best idea, and 6 weeks after the shoes came off her feet were fantastic!!

Horses can do almost everything a shod horse can do (with the exception of studs obviously) and if he gets a bit footy, then hoof boots do the job just as good as shoes, except without having to nail something on.

I use Keratex hoof hardner for my mare, and I intend to keep her barefoot! Who ever said TB's cant be barefoot was lying, my mare is proof!!

Also you tend to save a lot on farrier bills which is always an added bonus

 

[Arniebear]

Why is barefoot not really an option? Because a farrier has told you so? Because everyone says TB's have crappy feet? Because you have educated yourself on the subject, got a professional on side and had them evaluate his feet?

You will always eventually get cracks from putting a nail in something because it creates a hole, a weak spot. Same as putting a nail in a fencing rail.

Hoof health comes from diet and environment, not products you put on their feet

i didnt realise EVERYONE said TBs have crappy feet, but i personally think my TB doesnt have great feet (as does 2 farriers that have seen him) as 1 foot (the one in qu) is boxed and the other front one is slightly flatter, his back feet seem ok (better than his front)

barefoot is not really an option because i jump him and use studs..... cant really stud a barefoot!

i will happily admit i dont know much about feet, it was a simple yet perhaps stupid qu to ask..... but if people dont ask these stupid qus how do we learn????

i am reviewing his diet, which currently consists of only grass as he is unridden until he new saddle arrives!

 

[Nocturnal]

I use Keratex hoof hardner for my mare

I agree with most of your post, but I wouldn't let keratex near my horses' feet... is contains formaldehyde which is used for preserving dead bodies. I believe it has also been found to reduce bone density...

 

[0310Star]

Why do you need to use studs when you jump?

 

[0310Star]

I agree with most of your post, but I wouldn't let keratex near my horses' feet... is contains formaldehyde which is used for preserving dead bodies. I believe it has also been found to reduce bone density...

I have just started using it under the recommendation of my farrier and also know a lot of people who use it with great success!
If I feel it is doing more bad than good I will stop using it immediately!

 

[Arniebear]

Is he on three shod feet and one unshod? losing a shoe is an occupational hazard [with shod horses]

The picture tells a sorry story, all those growth rings indicate problems of ill health and/or an irregular feed regime, I expect the Barefoot Taliban will give you a more expert opinion.

Please,please, please do not fall for this "typical TB feet", I used to work in NH racing and it was rare to find a horse with poor feet, of course they were fed with a scientific diet, a lot of work, good forage, and good farrier.
It is possible that shoeing racehorses at age two is contributing to long term problems but if you don't try you don't get [my horse was in a right state when I bought him, but looks great now, it has taken four years!]
The barefoot diet [now being adopted by mainstream dieticians] is high fibre lo sugar, no cereals, and balanced minerals all the year round, here is a basic daily feed which can be fed in summer:
1gk Fast fibre
100gmsmicronised linseed meal
tablespoon salt
25-50gm of a mineral supplement: Equimins Advance, or Laminator [lush grass]
Dengie non molassed lo alfa Chaff just a double handful.
15gms Magnesium Oxide [Ebay]
I think you will need an expert opinion re the box foot.
Personally, I would make sure he gets his vits and mins for six weeks, by which time he will have been in his next set of shoes for six weeks, remove the shoes, rasp round edges but do NOT allow farrier to pare frogs or sole, and see how it goes. You will get plenty of support on here, but you can buy "First Feet" to increase your understanding of "FEET"!

hes on it for like 2 days till farrier come back out to reshoe him (monday)

i didnt mean to offend anyone by saying horrid TB feet, my sisters 2 yr TB has lovely feet... sorry!

thank you for the adivice on the barefoot diet, he diet is being reviewed

 

[Arniebear]

Why do you need to use studs when you jump?

have u seen the ground lately???? plenty of people jump with studs

 

[Miss L Toe]

thank you be positive, farrier is out on wed so will have a chat with him in more detail

when u say event lines im assuming you mean the lines that go around his hoof? they look a little like the ring lines on trees to see how old a tree is?! is this just the growth of the hoof??

clealry i know nothing in detail about feet!

as for his diet he is fed on conditioning mix and alfa a, hes been on this since ive had him he also gets pink powder, is this a good diet?? or bad?? in regards to his feet??

sorry for all the qus

thanks again

The hoof walls are an outward expression of inner health: when a horse is ill, the growth of the hoof will slow down, and in a few months you will see a distinct line round the hoof.
When the feed regime is altered significantly, the growth rate will alter again, another ring.
It takes four to six month for a reasonably well fed healthy horse to grow hoof wall from coronet band to ground.
If it is not healthy or is not getting "hoof nutrition" the growth rate will slow down, therefore when the farrier removes the shoes [about six weeks], he will find there is very little growth to rasp off, therefore he has to nail the shoes on as best he can, in your photo I see another nail hole at the same level as the current ones, but the old nail holes should ideally be rasped off and new nails hammered in to new hoof wall.
Others will answer feeding Qs
Remember that the growth starts in the coronet band, so in a reasonably healthy horse, the coronet band should be even, ie not un-level, if not there is some problem.
In a normal healthy horse, the hoof wall should be reasonably smooth, ie not ridged, and strong, not crumbly or brittle.

 

[Arniebear]

The hoof walls are an outward expression of inner health: when a horse is ill, the growth of the hoof will slow down, and in a few months you will see a distinct line round the hoof.
When the feed regime is altered significantly, the growth rate will alter again, another ring.
It takes four to six month for a reasonably well fed healthy horse to grow hoof wall from coronet band to ground.
If it is not healthy or is not getting "hoof nutrition" the growth rate will slow down, therefore when the farrier removes the shoes [about six weeks], he will find there is very little growth to rasp off, therefore he has to nail the shoes on as best he can, in your photo I see another nail hole at the same level as the current ones, but the old nail holes should ideally be rasped off and new nails hammered in to new hoof wall.
Others will answer feeding Qs
Remember that the growth starts in the coronet band, so in a reasonably healthy horse, the coronet band should be even, ie not un-level, if not there is some problem.
In a normal healthy horse, the hoof wall should be reasonably smooth, ie not ridged, and strong, not crumbly or brittle.

thank you that makes a lot more sense

 

[0310Star]

have u seen the ground lately???? plenty of people jump with studs

Yes it is bad but I meant why do you NEED to jump with them. I guess if you are competing you may need to but I am kind of in the mind frame of if the ground isn't right then I dont jump on it.
This wasn't a dig btw, just a genuine question!

 

[Nocturnal]

I have just started using it under the recommendation of my farrier and also know a lot of people who use it with great success!
If I feel it is doing more bad than good I will stop using it immediately!

My farrier recommended it to me as well... until I told him it contains formaldehyde! He promtly said he'd stop recommending it . If it does do harm, you won't detect it until it's too late.

But of course it's totally up to you. I know some products for human nails that also contain formaldehyde, though I would never use them myself, & they caution against getting it on your skin...

 

[Miss L Toe]

Personal viewpoint on the "need" for studs............ I have knee issues, very painful, ligaments involved, now, when I work [gardening], I used to wear walking boots, these have thick soles and grippy soles and give no feedback on the surface.....after reading about the feet on a barefoot horse, I started to wear my Ariats Cobalts which give me a direct feel of the surface I am working on, that is to say they are nearer to barefoot, since then I have had very few twists to the knee as my propriorecepters kick in automatically.
There is a thought that studs allow the horse to pivot on the spot, and this could cause ligament strains, I can see this myself, as I would not try to jump in stilleto heels, common sense would dictate flat soles, what I am saying is that a bit of side slip is not a bad thing.

 

[0310Star]

My farrier recommended it to me as well... until I told him it contains formaldehyde! He promtly said he'd stop recommending it . If it does do harm, you won't detect it until it's too late.

But of course it's totally up to you. I know some products for human nails that also contain formaldehyde, though I would never use them myself, & they caution against getting it on your skin...

Thanks for the info!! My farrier will be out in a few weeks and i will speak to him about it then! She has gotten quite foot sore with the weather being so up and down (first summer without shoes on so I expected it really) and I wanted to avoid boots or anything purely because I want her feet to get used to the ground!

Can you recommend anything else that works? As obviously you have been in my shoes if you once used it lol

 

[0310Star]

Personal viewpoint on the "need" for studs............ I have knee issues, very painful, ligaments involved, now, when I work [gardening], I used to wear walking boots, these have thick soles and grippy soles and give no feedback on the surface.....after reading about the feet on a barefoot horse, I started to wear my Ariats Cobalts which give me a direct feel of the surface I am working on, that is to say they are nearer to barefoot, since then I have had very few twists to the knee as my propriorecepters kick in automatically.
There is a thought that studs allow the horse to pivot on the spot, and this could cause ligament strains, I can see this myself, as I would not try to jump in stilleto heels, common sense would dictate flat soles, what I am saying is that a bit of side slip is not a bad thing.

Thank you for that reply! I can really see another view of the subject after reading this! Personally I never put studs on any of my horses, I have never felt the need to! But the "jumping in stiletoe's" comment made an awful lot of sense
I too have very bad knee's so I can relate well with you on that one

 

[Nocturnal]

Thanks for the info!! My farrier will be out in a few weeks and i will speak to him about it then! She has gotten quite foot sore with the weather being so up and down (first summer without shoes on so I expected it really) and I wanted to avoid boots or anything purely because I want her feet to get used to the ground!

Can you recommend anything else that works? As obviously you have been in my shoes if you once used it lol

I never used it myself, because of the formaldehyde issue (I'm rather particular about what goes on my horses' feet ). I have had a footy horse, though... I'm afraid my answer will be rather boring and predictable - diet, diet, diet .

It may be that your horse is struggling with the grass - what do you feed currently? There could be some changes you can make to help.

It's my feeling, though, that if the horse isn't comfortable it won't be using it's feet correctly, and they are unlikely to improve much - if at all. If you're struggling to get her comfy, there's nothing wrong with booting if it does this. Comfortable work in boots will be more beneficial than uncomfortable work barefoot .

 

[Arniebear]

everyone has their own on opinion in using studs

miss L toe....u make a valid point but at the same time i wouldnt want to be approaching a large solid fence and occur some side slip; i went for a run this morning down a track.... i could barely walk due to slipping on the ground

everybody is entitled to their own opinion

 

[Nocturnal]

everyone has their own on opinion in using studs

miss L toe....u make a valid point but at the same time i wouldnt want to be approaching a large solid fence and occur some side slip; i went for a run this morning down a track.... i could barely walk due to slipping on the ground

everybody is entitled to their own opinion

I believe current research is that a certain amount of slip is necessary, and is part of the shock absorbing mechanism that the horse has evolved... Another poster on here mentioned that her farrier fits stud holes further up the shoe to allow for a small amount of slip, to reduce the stress placed on the joints. I thought it was a good compromise for those who wanted to shoe.

 

[Meowy Catkin]

I'm not saying that this is the case for your horse - as I haven't seen photos of all his hooves - but I also have a TB who had three matching hooves and one more upright one (Farrier said that this was the 'bad' hoof).

I changed Farrier and the new farrier said 'look at that flare' and promptly rasped away the flare on the three matching hooves. Within a few minutes the horse had four matching hooves and the 'bad' hoof was infact the correct one! She was also alot happier without the flare and chipped her hooves less.

 

[Miss L Toe]

everyone has their own on opinion in using studs

miss L toe....u make a valid point but at the same time i wouldnt want to be approaching a large solid fence and occur some side slip; i went for a run this morning down a track.... i could barely walk due to slipping on the ground

everybody is entitled to their own opinion

aha, take off the trainers and you will be just fine, once you have "transitioned"

 

[0310Star]

I never used it myself, because of the formaldehyde issue (I'm rather particular about what goes on my horses' feet ). I have had a footy horse, though... I'm afraid my answer will be rather boring and predictable - diet, diet, diet .

It may be that your horse is struggling with the grass - what do you feed currently? There could be some changes you can make to help.

It's my feeling, though, that if the horse isn't comfortable it won't be using it's feet correctly, and they are unlikely to improve much - if at all. If you're struggling to get her comfy, there's nothing wrong with booting if it does this. Comfortable work in boots will be more beneficial than uncomfortable work barefoot .

She is on a diet of Hifi Good doer, scoop a day.... thats it!! lol She is on a VERY strict diet (Vet advised) due to being a fatty with ringbone Anything else balloons her! He said he wouldn't want her being fed anything if it wasn't for her supplements so this is the happy medium Her supplements are as follows....
1 glug of apple cider vinegar
1.5 scoop of pure Glucosamine
1/2 mug of corn oil
1 scoop of Oestress
1 x bute when worked

She has been absolutely fine, hacking on all surfaces, and it has literally been since the ground went from being sloppy and wet to rock hard! She isn't on loads of grass and she doesn seem to be improving! I gave her two weeks in the field when it forst occured and it made a small bit of difference but not much. Its mainley gravelly ground that is the problem!

 

[Nocturnal]

She is on a diet of Hifi Good doer, scoop a day.... thats it!! lol She is on a VERY strict diet (Vet advised) due to being a fatty with ringbone Anything else balloons her! He said he wouldn't want her being fed anything if it wasn't for her supplements so this is the happy medium Her supplements are as follows....
1 glug of apple cider vinegar
1.5 scoop of pure Glucosamine
1/2 mug of corn oil
1 scoop of Oestress
1 x bute when worked

She has been absolutely fine, hacking on all surfaces, and it has literally been since the ground went from being sloppy and wet to rock hard! She isn't on loads of grass and she doesn seem to be improving! I gave her two weeks in the field when it forst occured and it made a small bit of difference but not much. Its mainley gravelly ground that is the problem!

You may see some improvements by adding salt 30-50g per day, or if she won't eat that much, add as much as you can. And a mineral supplement may also help; Pro hoof/Pro balance, Equimins META balance or the Forage Plus balancer may be worth a try.

Alternatively you could try just adding 15g per day of mag ox at first, instead of the mineral supplement.