Hoof photos, thoughts please

[Jambarissa]

16hh very heavy blagdon cob. 12 years. Never shod, trim 2 weeks ago, always sore on stoney ground for a week or 2 after trim.

He's more sore than usual which is making me worried. Not at all lame trotting up on concrete, no digital pulse, no reaction to hoof testers, acting perfectly normally. Got vet coming tomorrow to try to rule out a few things.

Always trimmed by a good farrier but I'm going to try to find a barefoot trimmer.

Any thoughts on these pics? Farrier says soles are good and hard and they aren't at all flaky even though I think they look it in the pics. I've scrubbed with a wire brush here.

 

[Equi]

Is this the hoof two weeks post trim?

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

Does your farrier trim the frog?

 

[Jambarissa]

Yes two weeks post trim.

And yes he trims the frog, it gets quite a few flaps of skin around the sides.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I wouldn't let him really cut the frog back yes cut the hanging bits off but leave the rest alone, he looks like his got a bit of false sole there as well which I did say is a bit of an issue with alot of horses at the moment because of the weather.

Those alone would be enough to cause him to be foot sore I would try some hoof armour.

 

[Jambarissa]

You can't see it on these pics but I do think the sole near the toe of the 2nd pic (right hoof) is sticking out beyond the hoof wall. It definitely wasn't after the trim which seems odd.

I was going to put the hoof armour on tonight but he's been in all day and was being a dick. Hopefully it'll stay dry overnight.

I am now convinced I'd at least like to get a consultation with a barefoot trimmer. Is there a central register or particular qualification I should be looking for?

 

[Equi]

I agree he needs to stop trimming the frog esp near the back. It’s supposed to be fleshy and absorb the shock, a fact some Farriers forget when they’re not sticking a shoe on.

You don’t necessarily need a barefoot trimmer (many can be dodgy) you just need a farrier who is sympathetic to the barefoot horse.

 

[PoppyAnderson]

A horse should never be footsore after a trim. It just means the trimmer has done a bad job. I've been a barefooter for 20 or so years now. Quickly moved on from using farriers to using a barefoot trimmer to doing it myself now. I used to be scared to do it myself but it's not difficult. The right rasp is key. It's hard work physically, so I just do bits now and then. I never do anything excessive, just a light rasp to keep the edges neat-ish. Exercise does the rest.
Be very careful with vets....I've never met one who does say shoes when a horse is footsore.
Have you videoed the horse to see if he's landing heel first?

 

[ycbm]

It's difficult to judge at this stage, we really need them straight away, but I think your farrier has rasped down the toe callous and that would be very likely to make him sore.


ETA he may also have cut off the bars. This makes some horses sore, others need it done so they don't press on the ground, it's trial and error with bars.
.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

You don't need a barefoot trimmer just instruct your farrier to leave the frog and sole, my farrier has been trimming mine for years and does a perfectly good job.

 

[ycbm]

You don't need a barefoot trimmer just instruct your farrier to leave the frog and sole, my farrier has been trimming mine for years and does a perfectly good job.

It could be difficult to change the ways of a farrier who has been doing this to this horse for 10 years.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

It could be difficult to change the ways of a farrier who has been doing this to this horse for 10 years.

True I suppose some do think they know best no matter what.

 

[Jambarissa]

It'll certainly be an interesting conversation. He must do at least 20 horses on our yard, most unshod including my 3 and all done in the same way.

Fairly unlikely they'll need doing again for ages now, they tend to maintain their own feet over summer so I might but a radial rasp to tidy up and see where they get to.

Thank you for replies. Just waiting for the vet, hoping she will rule out lami.

 

[Suncat]

You can't see it on these pics but I do think the sole near the toe of the 2nd pic (right hoof) is sticking out beyond the hoof wall. It definitely wasn't after the trim which seems odd.

I was going to put the hoof armour on tonight but he's been in all day and was being a dick. Hopefully it'll stay dry overnight.

I am now convinced I'd at least like to get a consultation with a barefoot trimmer. Is there a central register or particular qualification I should be looking for?

Its always worth having options... the Equine Podiatry Association is the only self regulating register I know of - if you look at their list, all of their full members must hold the (Lantra Awarded) Level 5 Diploma in Equine Podiatry and complete regular continuous professional development. If you're looking for a shoeless hoof care provider for the first time its a great start as you know each person will at least have completed a governed national qualification and is keeping up to date.

 

[PurBee]

Does he load his foot to the outside heel, on both feet? The bar shape is more rounded and pushed out towards hoof wall than the other bar.
The hoof wall around that heel section is showing its being pushed out, as there’s a bump on both outer hoof walls showing this. There’s also a wee faint line on the sole marking this section of what might be causing torsion within the hoof.
It makes me wonder if the outer hoof wall on both hooves has a marking corresponding to that section…either a faint crack or vertical growth line?

I’ve no idea if this is causing the lameness, but its something to consider. When the hoof wall and frog are longer pre-trim, then this heel pushed-out anomaly likely isn’t much of an issue, but becomes so after a trim, when the walls are evened-down. It doesnt have to be a ‘wrong’ or overly aggressive trim job to show some quirks up that are tricky to figure out.
If he’s a heavyweight cob this anomaly makes sense too.

If you want, i can draw marker lines on your pics showing what im seeing? It may well be a red herring as its just solar plane pictures, and despite being good quality pics, sometimes we can see things that arent there, and miss things that are! But its something to get looked at closer.

I wonder if you did hoof testers on that heel section, right on the sole where the thin line is? It might not even get a reaction, and is only problematic for him when loading his full weight on it.


My gelding had a similar thing happen but caused by a heel abscess. The abscess weakened the heel wall, bar and sole area, causing the wall and bar to develop hairline splits, making him slightly lame post abscess, until it grew out. It all looked normal at a glance, but closer inspection revealed the slight hairline splits in that area of the foot causing slight lameness. It had to be kept very level and loading the front of the foot purposefully to keep pressure off the heel. It grew out fairly quickly being a heel, and was just slightly off on that foot, being a lightweight horse. A heavier-weight horse would likely show more obvious lameness.

If your boy wears his toes down, he may be compensating for heel pain by leaning forward more and wearing toe?

 

[paddy555]

I trim frogs.
I would put a ruler over the heels and see what the horse is landing on. Run the ruler down towards the toe as well.

I would also video in slow mo to see exactly what part of the foot he is landing on.

To me the back of the foot looks as if it needs building and improving. If he is simply sore for a couple of weeks after every trim (which I think you said in your last post) then I suspect he could be taking the walls/heels down more than the frog will allow.

 

[Jambarissa]

Does he load his foot to the outside heel, on both feet? The bar shape is more rounded and pushed out towards hoof wall than the other bar.
The hoof wall around that heel section is showing its being pushed out, as there’s a bump on both outer hoof walls showing this. There’s also a wee faint line on the sole marking this section of what might be causing torsion within the hoof.
It makes me wonder if the outer hoof wall on both hooves has a marking corresponding to that section…either a faint crack or vertical growth line?

I’ve no idea if this is causing the lameness, but its something to consider. When the hoof wall and frog are longer pre-trim, then this heel pushed-out anomaly likely isn’t much of an issue, but becomes so after a trim, when the walls are evened-down. It doesnt have to be a ‘wrong’ or overly aggressive trim job to show some quirks up that are tricky to figure out.
If he’s a heavyweight cob this anomaly makes sense too.

If you want, i can draw marker lines on your pics showing what im seeing? It may well be a red herring as its just solar plane pictures, and despite being good quality pics, sometimes we can see things that arent there, and miss things that are! But its something to get looked at closer.

I wonder if you did hoof testers on that heel section, right on the sole where the thin line is? It might not even get a reaction, and is only problematic for him when loading his full weight on it.


My gelding had a similar thing happen but caused by a heel abscess. The abscess weakened the heel wall, bar and sole area, causing the wall and bar to develop hairline splits, making him slightly lame post abscess, until it grew out. It all looked normal at a glance, but closer inspection revealed the slight hairline splits in that area of the foot causing slight lameness. It had to be kept very level and loading the front of the foot purposefully to keep pressure off the heel. It grew out fairly quickly being a heel, and was just slightly off on that foot, being a lightweight horse. A heavier-weight horse would likely show more obvious lameness.

If your boy wears his toes down, he may be compensating for heel pain by leaning forward more and wearing toe?

I would love any detail you can add. I've never had foot issues with my horses so must admit I've never really paid much attention, I should learn.

He's heavily feathered which makes me realise I've never actually seen his hooves hit the floor, if I can get some help I'll bandage and get a video.

 

[Jambarissa]

I trim frogs.
I would put a ruler over the heels and see what the horse is landing on. Run the ruler down towards the toe as well.

I would also video in slow mo to see exactly what part of the foot he is landing on.

To me the back of the foot looks as if it needs building and improving. If he is simply sore for a couple of weeks after every trim (which I think you said in your last post) then I suspect he could be taking the walls/heels down more than the frog will allow.

Thank you, it is every trim but only for a week or 2 and only when on very bad ground - hardcore round the gate and our stoney farm tracks.

His previous owner just booted him for a week and I have just done the same without ever thinking it through.

It's only triggered me because he's noticeable worse than usual and I worried it could be lami but vet has agreed no signs of lami other than this soreness which could be a sign of lami.... She made no recommendations.

 

[paddy555]

Thank you, it is every trim but only for a week or 2 and only when on very bad ground - hardcore round the gate and our stoney farm tracks.

His previous owner just booted him for a week and I have just done the same without ever thinking it through.

It's only triggered me because he's noticeable worse than usual and I worried it could be lami but vet has agreed no signs of lami other than this soreness which could be a sign of lami.... She made no recommendations.

if you continue with this farrier I would take some pics and measurements re the frog in relation to the walls at the heel immediately before the next trim and then immediately afterwards. If the vet is satisfied then something appears to be going wrong with the trimming if it is happening every time. Have you pointed out to the farrier this keeps happening. If he doesn't know he may think the horse is happy so he does more of the same.

If you go for a trimmer get references/referrals. There are good farriers and poor trimmers and vice versa.

It's not so much qualifications but what they can produce. Put your area and ask on here. You may get pm's as to who to avoid or lots suggesting the same brilliant trimmer. Find out what the ridden barefoot horses are achieving.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

You could try hoof armour I use it on both of mine purely because I have to go along a stony hard track to go anywhere, they both feel it at times especially in the summer but they are definitely better after I have used it.