Hoof question with photo's

[Silverfire]

Opinions on these feet please. Both fronts, both seem to have no proper toe and a red line. Her right fore sole looks high up by the toe and sunk behind it, i've tried to catch it on photo,(second photo) is this fairly normal or could something be going on in her hoof? She is not lame. Also has something going on on the outside walls of all four feet since March, it could be a reaction to some drugs she had, but has any one seen anything similar? Could it be fungal? All four of her soles are cracked and frogs have thrush although are dry not gooey. Thanks for any replies.


right fore

Before it was trimmed two weeks ago

outside

Left fore

 

[Meowy Catkin]

First thing, it's great that she is sound. I hope that you can get the thrush sorted as it can make horses footy. The toes will be worn back to the breakover point. My BF/unshod horses do this if they do enough roadwork, it's a good thing as you don't want the breakover delayed.

RE the outer horn, it's hard to tell from a photo, but I would review her diet as it has a big influence on the quality of the new horn grown. What does your Trimmer/Farrier think?

 

[Silverfire]

Thanks for your reply Faracat. She is an unbroken four year old so not done any road work yet and just walks from stable to field. I forgot to ask my farrier, too busy trying to remember which other horses needed doing! I had taken the photo of her foot before the trim because the outside edge hoof wall had folded over. Shes been having corrective trimming on her fronts for last couple years because she was slightly toe out and then had a flare on the outside right fore which took a fair while of trimming every three to four weeks to correct plus her heels were uneven but they are level now. I have a pic from end of last October of her front feet and her frogs were really good then with a flat sole and a toe. Not sure when the thrush started as don't pick her feet out often and shes stabled on shavings and rubber matting and she is really clean in the stable. Her back feet have flat soles with toes. The flakeyness on the outside started in March and vet had said it could be due to the drug reaction shes having, but since realising she has thrush i wondered if it could be fungal, unless the drug reaction caused the thrush too. Shes had vasculitis nearly eight weeks now, hot legs, slightly swollen fetlocks and pasterns and lies down a lot with bounding fetlock pulses and after noticing the dip in her sole (which none of my other horses seem to have) i was starting to wonder if she has had a bit of lami too but her neck hasn't been hard. *

 

[WindyStacks]

She's still very flat inside (see where her toe has rolled like a mustang roll, but she's flat - it should be a definite arch/cave inside to allow the hoof mechanism to work) and the frog is quite "messy". Are you using a farrier trained in barefoot techniques or just a run-of-the-mill farrier? I think she's still looking a little splayed on the outside, and of course this means she's flat-footed all over and the walls aren't "holding everything in" iyswim and this is why you're getting the separation on the outside.

Try and get an EP out. They're really not bad at all but given she's only 4 and never been shod, they could be a whole lot better!

 

[_HP_]

Perhaps her frogs a sore because of the thrush and she has been landing heavy on her toes for a while? P,us I think the stuff on the outside is the periople which is a protection for the new hoof growth

 

[Gloi]

It looks to me like she is carrying a lot of false sole in those feet.

 

[Silverfire]

Thanks for the replies. This is what her feet looked like back in October.
Right fore

Left fore

From in front they were looking straight but not now. Could a barefoot trimmer correct these? Photo's today.

Right fore

Left fore

Left hind

Right hind

 

[Silverfire]

It looks to me like she is carrying a lot of false sole in those feet.

Her mother and half brother grow false soles.

 

[amandap]

I think perhaps a second opinion in the flesh may be the way to go. Both hooves appear tall and narrow to me in the pics.
If you say what area you are in someone may be able to recommend a professional on here or via pm. Is the vet involved if corrective trimming has been undertaken?

 

[Silverfire]

Its my phone camera making her front hooves look upright amandap. I'm in Shropshire and its probably a good idea to have someone else's opinion. Not sure why my farrier has rasped her toes back, its not wear as she has been stabled a lot of the time over the last 3 months to keep her legs dry and clean due to having scabs on the back of her fetlocks which wouldn't heal.

Side view of right fore today

This is a front view of her legs and feet taken last October.

 

[EPS]

If I were you I would contact a DAEP barefoot trimmer. Its hard to tell from the photos but it looks like the whole balance is out, heels have come forward and look long, which will mean extra loading down the back of the limbs. The toes are far too short, and the side walls at risk of splaying out further. The hoof wall should be even and level all around the sole.
A DAEP will trim the hooves but will also look at the overall picture, nutrition, environment etc etc.
If I can find one I will post a picture of a 'ideally' trimmed hoof.

 

[amandap]

Rasping toes like that is a contentious issue and they aren't rasped centre toe. Is there a possibility she has been pawing if she's been stabled?

Sadly imo hooves cannot be trimmed to a 'perfect' shape unless the hoof struture is perfect and symmetrical. Trimming is aimed at helping (not hindering) the hoof struture improve or to maintain health.

There could possibly be a dietary component in the hoof wall flaking. I am sure I've seen photos of something similar but for the life of me I can't remember where or any detail.

If no one pm's a recommendation perhaps ask on Phoenix horse forum.
http://phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org/

ps. The soles don't look flat to me, they look deep (concave) but it could be the photos.

 

[Silverfire]

If I were you I would contact a DAEP barefoot trimmer. Its hard to tell from the photos but it looks like the whole balance is out, heels have come forward and look long, which will mean extra loading down the back of the limbs. The toes are far too short, and the side walls at risk of splaying out further. The hoof wall should be even and level all around the sole.
A DAEP will trim the hooves but will also look at the overall picture, nutrition, environment etc etc.
If I can find one I will post a picture of a 'ideally' trimmed hoof.

Thanks for this EPS.

 

[Silverfire]

Rasping toes like that is a contentious issue and they aren't rasped centre toe. Is there a possibility she has been pawing if she's been stabled?

Sadly imo hooves cannot be trimmed to a 'perfect' shape unless the hoof struture is perfect and symmetrical. Trimming is aimed at helping (not hindering) the hoof struture improve or to maintain health.

There could possibly be a dietary component in the hoof wall flaking. I am sure I've seen photos of something similar but for the life of me I can't remember where or any detail.

If no one pm's a recommendation perhaps ask on Phoenix horse forum.
http://phoenixhorse.myfastforum.org/

ps. The soles don't look flat to me, they look deep (concave) but it could be the photos.

She has rubber matting on stable floor but thinking about it i have seen her pawing the ground in the field, so maybe she has taken the toes off that way.

 

[Silverfire]

A month later and this is happening to her feet, started over weekend. This would be a false sole breaking up? Trying to get a farrier asap.

Left fore which is breaking up the worst

Same hoof but with camera flash

Right fore, frog just starting to lift but sole still intact

Right hind

Left hind

 

[LittleBlackMule]

Interesting how the toes look good on the hinds but too short on the fronts, as someone has suggested it looks like she could be pawing a lot.
I would want to knock those heels back a fair bit though, and I don't know if it's my imagination or are the heels on both front and hind on the left side much higher than the right...? Physical issues further up in the body...?

 

[meesha]

Does she get much turnout?

 

[Gloi]

There's a lot to come off those feet it will be interesting to see them again when they have been trimmed.

 

[Silverfire]

Interesting how the toes look good on the hinds but too short on the fronts, as someone has suggested it looks like she could be pawing a lot.
I would want to knock those heels back a fair bit though, and I don't know if it's my imagination or are the heels on both front and hind on the left side much higher than the right...? Physical issues further up in the body...?

Yes you are right about her heels LittleBlackMule I hadn't noticed that. What sort of physical issues could cause that?

 

[LittleBlackMule]

It would suggest to me that she was using the right side of her body differently to her left, and so placing/weighting the feet on each side differently. But exactly what she was doing differently would probably take a good vet or physio to say, and I'm not one.

 

[Silverfire]

It would suggest to me that she was using the right side of her body differently to her left, and so placing/weighting the feet on each side differently. But exactly what she was doing differently would probably take a good vet or physio to say, and I'm not one.

She has a slight head tilt to left, having looked at her foal photo's she was born with it. She also has a thickened piece of large intestine with a small impaction before it which is on the left side of her abdomen and which she has had at least two years, and she has teeth problems which first started/have been worse on the left side of her mouth. I guess any of them could be causing it.
Farrier coming Tuesday.

 

[Silverfire]

Farrier came yesterday instead. I think they look much better?
Here's some pics:

Left fore just after trimming yesterday

Today

Right fore yesterday

Today

Both fronts today

Left hind

Right hind

 

[LittleBlackMule]

They may look tidier, but they are really showing up her balance issues, especially obvious in the caudal shot of the near fore.
If she were mine I would have a physio look at her, and lots of in-hand exercises to try and straighten her out before even thinking of riding her (as I assume you will be given her age).

 

[Silverfire]

Thought I would update this post. I changed farriers twelve months ago because there was no improvement in her feet. The farrier said she had under run heels and very unbalanced feet, she was only walking on outside of her feet.

First pic taken twelve months ago:

This pic couple days ago:

 

[Gloi]

How did you/he stop her only walking on the outside of her feet?

 

[tallyho!]

I realise how old this post is and the most recent pic yesterday s MUCH better but wow your old farrier was awful... those feet were extremely unbalanced, they were all over the place, high one side low the other, one looked completely twisted.

I have hope with your new farrier. The before looked under-run, extremely long toes, long quarters and you can see how the hoof wants to grow and then gets taken forward...

 

[Silverfire]

Thought I would update this post. I changed farriers twelve months ago because there was no improvement in her feet. The farrier said she had under run heels and very unbalanced feet, she was only walking on outside of her feet.

First pic taken twelve months ago:

This pic couple days ago:

Just realised the first photo was actually taken the day her feet were trimmed right back so they already looked better in that photo than they had. The new farrier only took a little off her feet first time and tried to make them better balanced, then said she really needed xraying partly because she had been slightly lame after her last few trimmings. So the vet (also changed vets) came same time as farrier, xrayed her feet then farrier trimmed some off her toes, then vet xrayed again and said more could come off so farrier trimmed more off. Then since then she has been trimmed every four weeks, her front feet grow quick so that has helped, they actually seem to have slowed down a bit now. I never really understood what was meant by under run heels but now I've seen the before and after photo I can see the difference. Her right fore was worse and her inside heel still needs to open out a bit more but hopefully that will improve.