Hoof supplements

[lynz88]

Mine suddenly went very footsore and couldn't figure out why. I noticed very minor changes in his sole as well and asked the yard if I was out of the Forage Plus winter hoof and skin. Sure enough, he was. So I'm pretty sure the FP works for mine!

 

[bouncing_ball]

Sure understand. But it really is less than 2 mins for me to get four boots on and you might find yourself spending longer than that getting the farrier back if he's repeatedly pulling shoes! Bear went through a phase of pulling a shoe a week his feet were so crumbly it was a nightmare logistically. Could you take them off in spring so he can get the feet strong over summer and autumn then shoe again in winter if you end up being forced down the barefoot route?

But assuming you can maintain the feet shod, I'd still personally use Equimins. Annoyingly.

Ive got a fairly newly barefoot horse. I do find barefoot more tines consuming though worthwhile.

I do all my hacking in 4 boots. Most of my schooling in boots (as thin soles and sand abrasive).

I do think in winter getting feet and pasterns clean for putting on boots adds time. Cleaning boots after hacking - stones out and mud out takes time.

I do a tidy up mini trim weekly (barefoot farrier every 5 weeks).

I also apply hoof armor roughly weekly needs clean dry feet to apply.

I do a fair bit on thrush prevention but I’d do that with a shod horse.

there is time saving with no lost shoes or muddy over reach boots to clean.

 

[bouncing_ball]

I'm feeding Happy Hoof/Healthy Hooves depending on what feed merchant I go to and I also coat the soles of the feet and frog with Eucalyptus mixed with Iodine once a week and twice a week or when I can get hooves dry I put on Keratex Hoof Hardener on the outside of the foot.

I'm not convinced the hoof hardener works though because he has a chip with a nail sticking out of it which I'm hoping the farrier can bang back in at the weekend.

Do you not feed any vitamin and mineral balancer? I think zinc, copper, methionine etc. are pretty important for feet development.

 

[Flying_Form]

Bon apparently had very crumbly feet in his previous home. Farrier has been to him here and said his feet are OK but will need watching in summer.
His owner put him on farriers formula which has helped as he was struggling to hold a shoe.
I know barefoot might help but it's not a realistic goal for me at the moment. I work 45+ hours a week, I've 2 in work, 5 beds to do every day I don't have the time or energy to get him out of shoes unfortunately at the moment. It's not out of the question forever, I do understand the benefits but it's definitely not feasible at the moment.
So currently he gets alfa oil, a cup of baileys performance balancer, a cup of micronised linseed, a cup or two of saracens releve, and a measure of farriers formula
Small tweaks to feeding welcome - he's getting the same stuff as Charlie basically all low sugar etc. Ideally if I'm buying a bag of feed I'd like it to suit both (low sugar, reasonable levels of protein or oil)
And supplement suggestions, can I do better than farriers formula? I'd like to avoid equimins after the vitamin e saga ideally but if its the best it's the best. Farriers formula isn't cheap- if something works and is more economical that would be good. Someone has suggested Biotrition which looks similar to farriers formula but other options welcome.

had same problem with a 14 year old eventer I had awhile back, such bad hooves. Found plain biotin powder worked wonders alongside some linseed oil mixed into his regular feed morning and night. Our farrier was amazing and had made these shoes that basically kept his hoof together, and the particularly bad front hooves had this gel putty put on as well that reduced impact on the hoof when jumping or on hard surfaces. After about 6-9 months of this (the supplements were fine, but the farrier was so expensive) his hooves were in great condition and I just kept up the supplements and returned back to normal shoes!

 

[Highmileagecob]

Have a trawl through Pete Ramey's 'Hoof Rehab' site. He is an American farrier who has challenged traditional farrier methods, and has worked alongside Dr Bowker at Maryland University researching various hoof related conditions. Interesting stuff, particularly where navicular changes are concerned.

 

[Roxylola]

Just for the sake of an update I got the progressive earth pro balancer for him. He's been on that and no farriers formula for about a month. My farrier has been today and says his feet are stronger and better than the last time.
I also think his skin and coat feel really good, I'd add a photo but as a mostly white spotty who's rugless he's pretty disgusting atm ??

 

[Regandal]

I use Forageplus winter balancer all year round, it’s the only one the horse will eat. His feet and coat are fabulous.

 

[lynz88]

Same for me Regandal. He ran out when the girls forgot to tell me and he went super footy. Put him back on and was right as rain after a few weeks

 

[Caol Ila]

I had my Highland on Forageplus Winter and was pretty happy with that, although he still prefers to wear his boots up front when on rocky ground.

For sh1t and giggles, I'm starting him on the Progressive Earth one once it arrives next week. No idea if there is any difference, but their ingredients vary slightly, so we will find out.

 

[PoppyAnderson]

What concerns you time wise re being barefoot out of interest? I spend the same amount of time on my horses feet barefoot vs shod aka picking out, preventative treatment for thrush. Putting on boots for hacking is the only faff but it takes the same amount of time as putting on brushing boots...

Re foot supplement Bear did really well on Equimins hoof mender- I loathe to give them money but it really is good. And they do a money back guarantee on it.

Equimins hoof mender is fantastic stuff.

Why reluctant to use them? What have I missed?

 

[Michen]

Equimins hoof mender is fantastic stuff.

Why reluctant to use them? What have I missed?

They basically mis sold synthetic vit E as natural and then treated their customers rather appallingly over it all. Pretty shoddy.

 

[Roxylola]

Equimins hoof mender is fantastic stuff.

Why reluctant to use them? What have I missed?

For a long time they were selling synthetic vitamin e oil as natural on the website, it's less bioavailable and potentially could have had huge consequences for pssm types. Not only that they were incredibly blasé about it when it became apparent they'd known for some time and not updated the website. Personally, if they're happy doing that I don't trust what's in their other products

 

[poiuytrewq]

For a long time they were selling synthetic vitamin e oil as natural on the website, it's less bioavailable and potentially could have had huge consequences for pssm types. Not only that they were incredibly blasé about it when it became apparent they'd known for some time and not updated the website. Personally, if they're happy doing that I don't trust what's in their other products

I remember this, it didn’t effect me as I don’t use vitamin e but how was it found out if they didn’t admit it at the time?

 

[Roxylola]

I remember this, it didn’t effect me as I don’t use vitamin e but how was it found out if they didn’t admit it at the time?

I think they finally changed the description on the website but didn't change the price- generally synthetic is cheaper. Someone queried and was told it had always been synthetic, I think they blamed their supplier for the initial error (possibly accurately) but knowing the error, they didn't change the website (for years I think)

 

[Roxylola]

Incidentally, I'm due to order again. Looked at the pack last night and it's labelled as pro balance +, I checked the order and I ordered (and paid £10 more for) hoof balancer. I'm going to double check the full bag tonight at the yard. I'm a bit cross about it as they apparently either sent the wrong product or substituted a lesser product without letting me know.
It's partly on me as I missed it at the time, and if it's the balance + it's potentially a saving for me longer term as I'm happy with the results so I'll probably order that again but its not filled me with confidence ?

 

[Roxylola]

Apologies for triple posting but I think it's important to update things in case of people searching in future etc.
To their credit, progressive earth responded very quickly to my email apologised for their mistakeand offered to send me a bag of pro hoof there and then or discount my order if I wanted to use the balance plus.
Hugely over and above what I was expecting - I'd hoped to get the price difference back but they actually took off the full price. I was due some vitamin e and magnesium for Charlie so I've got that from them too. Dispatched the same day and came within 48 hours.

 

[ycbm]

I remember this, it didn’t effect me as I don’t use vitamin e but how was it found out if they didn’t admit it at the time?

I think people with horses with PSSM which need it in high doses as a medication got suspicious when it didn't work as well as natural. The reason for that is that horses are only able to use half the synthetic version.
.

 

[TPO]

Apologies for triple posting but I think it's important to update things in case of people searching in future etc.
To their credit, progressive earth responded very quickly to my email apologised for their mistakeand offered to send me a bag of pro hoof there and then or discount my order if I wanted to use the balance plus.
Hugely over and above what I was expecting - I'd hoped to get the price difference back but they actually took off the full price. I was due some vitamin e and magnesium for Charlie so I've got that from them too. Dispatched the same day and came within 48 hours.

I've used them for years and they have always provided excellent service so I'm not surprised at their response.

Equimmins could learn a lot from them!

Glad it's resolved and mainly that you've seen a positive effect from feeding it.

 

[I'm Dun]

I think people with horses with PSSM which need it in high doses as a medication got suspicious when it didn't work as well as natural. The reason for that is that horses are only able to use half the synthetic version.
.

Someone on the PSSM group emailed to ask them directly.

 

[ycbm]

Someone on the PSSM group emailed to ask them directly.

I hope people with ill horses have managed to get compensation, do you know?
.

 

[PurBee]

A few yrs back i tried FF alonngside a generic balancer for my horses, prone to degrading white line issues at the quarters - TBH i didnt see any improvement in white line stability from 2 bags worth, so stopped using it. They had pretty good horn quality, just white line issues, so maybe FF works well for crumbly horn issues.

Im trialling prog. Earth balancer pro at the moment…seems ok for skin/hair quality but i think there’s some caustic versions of minerals in it, alongside good versions of the same minerals, as since starting it both horses have been chewing at their belly line. Ruffled hair patches. Im still monitoring, so its not a foregone conclusion, but certainly seems coincidental symptom since changing nothing else at all, except adding pro.earth.

I was using equimins advance complete for a yr before prog. Earth trial, and their hooves and skin/hair were fabulous, despite the vit e scandal…i prefer that so far! (Im having trouble getting equi. Adv. com. At the moment post brexit, grrr!)

I think the array of b vits in equimins adv. com. Is the added boost that makes that excel above all overs ive tried, as many balancers dont usually add many b’s….except b6, and b12.
My horses werent keen on the pellets, but love the powder version. Totally same ingredients, but pelleting process sometimes causes heat, so the heating of the ingredients to produce the pellet evidently makes the pellets taste/smell different to the powder. I must admit the pellets smelt of fish to me, whereas the powder is yeasty.

 

[COldNag]

I am not surprised that Progressive Earth's response- have always found d their customer service excellent.

(And I have always had great results with Pro Balance) .

 

[Tiddlypom]

Another to vouch for Pro Earth's customer relations. They did a minor whoopsy with an order which I didn't notice straight away (can't remember the exact details). When I did notice it and contacted them, they were straight back apologising and sending me more product out.

The Pro Balance+ is excellent and also economical in use.

Plus if you order from Pro Earth you get chocolate...

 

[I'm Dun]

I hope people with ill horses have managed to get compensation, do you know?
.

They refunded me for every bottle I ever bought but I had a bit of a tussle to get to that point.

 

[ycbm]

They refunded me for every bottle I ever bought but I had a bit of a tussle to get to that point.

Well done for getting that far! I wonder how many horses deaths they caused because "treatment" didn't work ?
.

 

[I'm Dun]

Well done for getting that far! I wonder how many horses deaths they caused because "treatment" didn't work ?
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They didnt remotely care. At first I thought maybe they just didnt understand, but it turns out they do and just dont consider it an issue. I would never ever use them again as I am convinced it wont be the only product not as described.

 

[ycbm]

They didnt remotely care. At first I thought maybe they just didnt understand, but it turns out they do and just dont consider it an issue. I would never ever use them again as I am convinced it wont be the only product not as described.

There are certainly reports of big changes of colour and smell between different batches of Complete. With no change in label or the website details. They aren't on my list as a supplier for when/if I want to stop making up my own (if we don't have space at the new place for 25kg sacks of copper sulphate and yeast!).
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[Roxylola]

@Tiddlypom - magic stars this time, much appreciated on Saturday afternoon when I was ploughing through overtime.

I didn't bother contacting Equimins about my vitamin E I'd only had a couple of bottles, I just won't buy from them again as how can you be sure you are getting what you ordered if they can't even be bothered to keep the website up to date.

I also won't buy from Equibalancer again after I ordered their M & S supplement, they sent a gut supplement, didn't respond to my email about it at all and when I looked at the ingredients it looks like pretty much all they sell is the same stuff just differently labelled. I only got it to try as people rave about it on the M & S forums

 

[I'm Dun]

There are certainly reports of big changes of colour and smell between different batches of Complete. With no change in label or the website details. They aren't on my list as a supplier for when/if I want to stop making up my own (if we don't have space at the new place for 25kg sacks of copper sulphate and yeast!).
.

I make my own too now. You can buy it from ebay in increments of 1kg. I mix up about 5kgs total in one go and then store it in an air tight container

 

[ycbm]

I make my own too now. You can buy it from ebay in increments of 1kg. I mix up about 5kgs total in one go and then store it in an air tight container

I think I might just be too lazy to bother if the saving is reduced by being forced to buy smaller volumes. Effort is not my strong point ? I think I paid about £2 a kilo for my copper sulphate and zinc oxide. If anyone is thinking of trying out 25kg sacks, zinc oxide doesn't stay as a powder even if it's kept completely dry inside the house and closed after use. Quite soon after opening 25kg, you need a hammer to break it up. Copper sulphate is fine and yeasacc keeps well. Though I can only buy yeasacc 6 sacks at a time. I've got 4 x 20kg sacks to sell it anyone local wants one for the same price as brewer's yeast £70 (you use 1/3 as much).
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