Hooves Critique Please

[Austen123]

hi all,

i will hold my hands up and say i have limited knowledge on farriery. A friend of mine commented on my horse's feet and due to my lack of knowledge in this area i am unsure whether there is an issue or not. i have had no lameness issues nor is it common for her to loose shoes therefore why fix a problem that isnt there? of course, i am aware that prevention is better than cure so if there is an obvious issue i would be happy to discuss with my farrier . i have used my farrier for the last 15 years so am very loyal to him and previous horses havent had any major issues and place a lot of trust in his judgement and work.
If you need better pics, let me know. these are just what i took this morning .

Thank you in advance to all my knowledgeable HHO community

 

[Zuzan]

A bit hard to say from the angle you've photographed them... the camera needs to be on same level as the hooves rather than pointing down at them. Also would be useful to have sole / frog photos ..

To be honest I would approach your farrier and ask him about your friends comment. If you have a good relationship with your farrier you should be able to ask them questions and have decent explanations for their approach.

It is worth learning as much as possible about hooves .. It's like understanding feed and diet, skeleto-muskulatory systems; and all the other areas of caring for equines .. this is a very good book that will help .. v good pics and will help you understand the explanations your farrier gives.. https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=the+essential+hoof+book which is available as an ebook too..

 

[Meowy Catkin]

Yes please to more photos.

Get the camera down on the ground when you take them and also take some of the soles.

 

[Austen123]

thanks both. yes i can take some more this afternoon

 

[Meowy Catkin]

If the forum will let you (it can be temperamental about file sizes) then bigger photos would also be nice.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

The toes look too long to me from those pictures and the heels look quite high as well.

 

[Nudibranch]

Hard to tell with the angles but is he due a trim? They look rather long but if you can take them from ground level it's more accurate. I once had someone describe a horse's foot as bull nosed when in real life it was the opposite and they were long toe/low heel. Photos can be very deceptive.

 

[Austen123]

some more pics from this eve. managed to over reach to her front whilst jumping today.
she is due for shoeing next week

 

[Nudibranch]

I've seen worse! They do look a little long toe and heel wise but they are due so not surprising. Slightly underrun and possibly contracted heels but perhaps reducing shoeing intervals would help with this. Certainly not terrible. What was your friend's comment?

 

[Austen123]

I've seen worse! They do look a little long toe and heel wise but they are due so not surprising. Slightly underrun and possibly contracted heels but perhaps reducing shoeing intervals would help with this. Certainly not terrible. What was your friend's comment?

she was saying how they just look very boxy and almost need to be splayed out more. It's funny, because i then look at her horse's feet and think they look very odd and almost bell shaped (narrow at top, wide at bottom). but again happy to hold my hands up and say im not an expert

 

[Zuzan]

There isn't a right or wrong shaped hoof .. different equines require different hooves .. the hoof supports the limb above it and will adapt to changes in muskulature / level of work and environment etc .. which is why understanding the hoof is important as no size fits all is the rule of thumb... there simply isn't a "standard correct" hoof.

 

[ester]

They certainly look due, what interval are you doing ATM? Only because a longer toe in front can mean that hoof leaves the ground slower to make clearance for the hind (given the over reach)

 

[PurBee]

Sometimes with one black and one white foot, on the fronts, they can visually look different shape/size. My gelding has this and after a trim i look at his feet and think how odd they look, like a different size to each other...so get the ruler out and measure sole length/width, wall height etc and am surprised to measure them both exactly the same.

 

[brighteyes]

Look OK to me!

 

[dreamcometrue]

Look fine to me too. Is your friend very knowledgeable and qualified in farriery?

 

[Austen123]

They certainly look due, what interval are you doing ATM? Only because a longer toe in front can mean that hoof leaves the ground slower to make clearance for the hind (given the over reach)

she is due w/c 4th and that's 6 week intervals . she is usually 5 week intervals in the spring/summer

 

[Austen123]

Look fine to me too. Is your friend very knowledgeable and qualified in farriery?

no, she isnt. however, i do value her opinion. in that tough situation of not wanting to upset her by saying thanks for your opinion, but i trust my farrier.
I also spoke to my (horse's) chiro today too who confirmed the axis looks abosutley fine and from photos and memory there was nothing obviously wrong. and she said, that yes, you drag her toe out so they look "less boxy" (friend's concern) but you would do far more damage by letting the heal drop.

she is also shod in rolled toe front shoes which apparently is very good helping with taking the strain off the tendons when loaded . he did this without me prompting him. a sign of a farrier with good initiative and horse are forefront of mind.

 

[holeymoley]

They look fine. From the photos they all seem well balanced and the correct shape in line with the leg. If anything they are slightly long all over as in due for a trim. My guy has the same feet, they’re quite boxy. When you get to week 5 they look quite long! I wouldn’t be concerned at all.

 

[Mule]

There isn't a right or wrong shaped hoof .. different equines require different hooves .. the hoof supports the limb above it and will adapt to changes in muskulature / level of work and environment etc .. which is why understanding the hoof is important as no size fits all is the rule of thumb... there simply isn't a "standard correct" hoof.

Very true, I believe the shape of the coffin bone also influences the shape of the hoof

 

[sbloom]

I think your friend may have a point, there is some evidence for the new growth getting tighter and tighter.

Feet are really tricky, I went through feet problems with my first horse over a few stages (worsening and improving and worsening again), and thought I'd learned a ton. Then had (very different) issues with my second horse, and again thought I'd learned a ton, but what I know barely scratches the surface. I'm a saddle fitter and feet are so often a big part of any other issues going on with a horse - posture, tightness, soreness under saddle, things you'd seldom put down to feet. I have had to learn as much as possible about them because without decent feet other issues can crop up that might look like saddle.

Have a look here https://www.facebook.com/markjfarrier, https://www.facebook.com/theequinedocumentalist and https://www.facebook.com/hoofscanandhoofcarecentre for some brilliant, almost cutting edge approaches to mostly barefoot in the first case, but all three do shoe and cast light on so much traditional farriery. The Equine Documentalist offers an assessment service which might be useful.

I would have a good feel of the top of the heel bulbs, you should feel some substance there, a bit like a firm, contracted muscle, this "digital cushion" shouldn't feel hollow in the middle and boney.

I would assess whether the horse is landing heel first or flat (generally both are good or at least okay), or rather is landing toe first (which is not okay), you can use ultra slow mo on your phone, it can be enlightening. Again get down to ground level as the horse walks past.

Sole shots would be interesting (taken square on to the sole, close up, showing the whole hoof) as without those we're lacking info, and you can only tell so much from photos. I would really recommend you start reading through these pages, or their websites if you're not on FB, they're incredibly educational, then you can make up your own mind. I'm not sure I agree with everyone that all is 100% fine.

 

[Suechoccy]

Photos of your friend's horse's feet would be interesting to see too, as if she is handing out advice on what a good and a bad foot is, presumably her horse's feet are very good? Your farrier's rolled toe shoes, that you've had your farrier for 15 years and your horse has no lameness or other foot problems caused by shoeing during that time - all of those things would lead me to believe your farrier is doing a good job.

 

[CanteringCarrot]

Interesting.

There are a few things I might mention, but certainly the hooves aren't catastrophic.

There are some things I wouldn't let go much further, and maybe friend was simply mentioning that. She might have had a certain experience in the past that now makes her more critical. Who knows.

I can't say well, "she knows nothing" or "let's see her horse" ? would love to see that everyone that posts on the matter of hooves must post their horses hooves ? I'm being facetious here.

They so look a bit "boxy" or bull nosed in some of the photos in the OP. It is possible to fix this without the "toe running forward"

I've seen farriers use rolled toe shoes quite a bit, not sure if it is a trend or all the horses really need that, tbh. However, since you're very confident and comfortable with your farrier then I suppose it is a moot point.

 

[ihatework]

From what can be seen I wouldn’t be massively concerned. That said looking at the toe length I’d probably shorten the shoeing cycle by a week.
The second photo in the second set a) looks quite wonky, but that’s just the photo angle and b) looks a little contracted. If you don’t already I’d spray/Stockholm tar weekly for thrush.

When the vet is next up, ask them to look at the medial-lateral balance for you, feet need to be viewed as part as a bigger picture

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

she was saying how they just look very boxy and almost need to be splayed out more. It's funny, because i then look at her horse's feet and think they look very odd and almost bell shaped (narrow at top, wide at bottom). but again happy to hold my hands up and say im not an expert

Some horses sometimes have a more boxy foot you can't change that and the farrier shouldn't try, but there are things they can do to help it like using a wider shoe to offer more support and encourage the foot to spread out a bit, but that can have its problems as they can catch the shoes and pull them off, one of my horses had one boxy foot in front the only thing that really improved it was taking the shoes off, his now barefoot and has been for 18 months and it looks so much better.

 

[ycbm]

I'm sorry but I want another set of photos

The camera needs to be right down on the floor at the same level as the foot. Even the second set are from too high a position. Photos are often deceptive anyway, but taken from an angle it's impossible to judge.

Side on exactly, front on exactly, back on from lifted up and looking down the sole and from directly on top the sole, if you're feeling like it after she's been shod again.
.

 

[ester]

I basically think it's unfair to judge hooves/shoeing 5 weeks since they were done. Would be interesting to see them fresh shod instead. OP look on the rockley blog for examples of good photo angles.

 

[oldie48]

I can't comment on your horses's feet but my experience has been that the last two horses that I've bought had been poorly shod but with good shoeing a year later their feet looked quite different. Rose had rather bull nosed hind hooves with very deep sulci, Bisto's were small with collapsed heels but with my farrier they changed quite radically.If this person is someone you would normally listen to I'd be inclined to continue the conversation with her as she might save you a lot of grief in the future and it costs nothing to be open minded. FWIW I changed many years ago to my current farrier because a trainer told me very bluntly that my farrier wasn't doing a good enough job.

 

[sbloom]

I think it's very easy to not notice minor issues starting to show, I look at feet day in day out and have got better and better at seeing the early signs. It's just the same as people looking at photos of saddles and saying it looks okay, so often, to my eye, they're out of balance and/or too far forwards but that's hard for most people to see.

The second two FB pages I posted have lengthy posts on how to take photos.

Agree with Cantering Carrot, and various others, read further on the subject as at the moment you have no idea which of us might be right, post more photos

 

[Austen123]

Hi All,
Sorry for delay, have been swamped at work. pics a couple of days after shoeing . i have only done the front shots as i didnt have any concerns with the back.

i asked my farrier about the shoe type and he said that he uses the equilibrium rolled toe front shoes on her as she is a showjumper it will help with the breakover and load bearing on the front ligs and tendons.
looking at these pics, i feel quite happy

 

[ycbm]

Hi All,
Sorry for delay, have been swamped at work. pics a couple of days after shoeing . i have only done the front shots as i didnt have any concerns with the back.

i asked my farrier about the shoe type and he said that he uses the equilibrium rolled toe front shoes on her as she is a showjumper it will help with the breakover and load bearing on the front ligs and tendons.
looking at these pics, i feel quite happy

The camera needs to be close to getting its bottom in the dirt, those are still at quite an angle from above and not straight on sideways either, sorry.
.