Hooves/feed/barefoot... Questions from a confused new owner!

[ponyparty]

I know, I haven't even officially got my horse yet (I move him to his new yard this weekend)! But I've been trying to decide on a farrier, and wondering about what to do longer term re: shoes. I'm not planning on making any changes to diet, shoes or routine until he's settled in at his new yard - but want to plan for the coming months.

He only has shoes on his fronts. His hinds are fairly good (I think... Though I am no hoof expert, hence why I'm here!). His fronts have a tendency to flare slightly and crack, sometimes up to the clench. In late summer he had chunks of hoof wall missing, this is now growing out though. I'm just wondering if taking him barefoot all round might be a viable option.

I've read a lot about how important diet is, and I think that what he's on now is probably not the ideal for healthy hoof growth? So I will probably change this first, when he's settled in, and see how he goes.

He's currently on 1/2 scoop Hi Fi Lite AM, and 1/2 scoop Hi Fi Lite + 1/2 scoop Coola Mix + 1 small scoop Equimins Hoof Mender PM. Occasionally gets a few horse and pony nuts in a treat ball too. He has access to (and uses) a Himalayan salt lick; I've just bought him a Magnacalm lick too, to see if that helps chill him out when he moves yards this weekend.

Any advice on what feed to change him to? He hots up easily, can be sharp and spooky, but drops condition easily in winter. I've been told linseed hots them up; but I've also been told it doesn't. There is so much conflicting information out there, including on old threads on here which I've been perusing. Calmag/magox... which one?! Are they the same thing?!

Also... is there a best time of year to embark upon the barefoot journey? Winter/summer?

Few pics to illustrate what his feet are like - aware they're not from an ideal angle, just to give you an idea though.

Near fore:

Near hind:

 

[AFB]

Not a great help in terms of advice but I haven't found linseed heating to mine at all, and he's holding his weight nicely - he usually drops in spring/autumn when he's still out overnight but there's not much grass left

 

[tallyho!]

If you do go down the bf route then those feet are in pretty good nick, the front ones are just a tad long in the toe but generally that is the case with most shod horses. The frogs are in good shape.

Have you thought about alfalfa pellets? Dengie do them and also grass pellets - I find these better for ones that need a bit more over winter. Micronised linseed is fab stuff and I've never heard it heating. Is coola mix the one from redmills? If so that does have a lot of grain in it. If you need grain, oats would be the only thing I'd feed to a bf horse. Equimins hoof mender is pretty good but I found it expensive. I've switched to Progressive earth pro-balance which suits us as we had our forage tested so found we didn't need as much as thought. Worth doing actually, saves in the end.

I transitioned mine in winter and turned away for about 2 months. Couldn't ride anyway as he had navicular (one of those last chance cases) but there we are. There's no right time, there is only time itself and how much you're prepared to give in the early days to ease them in to it... you get some that march on regardless (like my other horses) and need no extra care whatsoever apart from boots for the rough stuff.

All the best if you do decide bf is for you. Set yourself up for success and get your self a decent book. I think Nic Barker has a new one out so go to amazon. Get as much knowledge as you can yourself as you will find that unless you are on a bf friendly yard, advice will conflict and people tend to make you feel bad - they can't help it. As long as you're confident, trust your instincts and remember there are equine podiatrists and UKNHCP trimmers who are fully qualified to help you if you need a 2nd opinion.

 

[Kat]

There's not much to change there, HiFi lite is fine, as is the Equi mins. I don't know what the mix is but most mixes are rubbish for barefoot. I would start to taper that off once you get him home. You can just feed the Equi mins with the HiFi you don't need a mix. Micronised Linseed is worth feeding and at low levels will definitely be less heating than a mix. Start feeding linseed using the supplement scoop you get with the equi mins and just do a scoop per feed, if he holds his weight that is enough but if not increase it gradually.

I wouldn't buy another himalayan salt lick after this one as they have too much iron. Put table salt in his feed and give a white salt lick if he likes a lick.

His back feet look great, the fronts will probably transition well. Good luck!

 

[pippixox]

I have all three of mine barefoot- more recently I took my nearly 20yo TB barefoot as he was struggling to keep shoes on, always had poor feet, and I decided it was time to bite the bullet. I actually found an Equine Podiatrist to help as knew he would not be easy (the others have pretty decent feet and just need to be careful on sugar)

opinions vary, but although behaviorally mine were fine, I was recommended to avoid alfalfa as it can cause inflammation in a lot of horses. Happy barefoot is all about reducing inflammation- so they need a healthy gut and low sugar.

personally I feed a small amount of spidibeet (upped if old boy starts dropping weight), and grass pellets and dried grass, with some micronised linseed- upped as winter goes on. So it is as unprocessed as possible (boy also on gut supplement as he has a poor gut)

I chose autumn/winter as I knew my boy would struggle with transition as he is sensitive and thin soled, but the soft ground means he is comfy out in the field, has hoof boots for walk to and from field as its over 10 minutes each way. but he is in the dry at night to keep his feet solid!

 

[Landcruiser]

Magnacalm lick contains dextrose, a sugar - I'd ditch it instantly.
Those hooves look very promising - the hinds are not bad at all (although your farrier is heavy handed with the rasp on the outside of the wall). The fronts are too long, both heel and toe, and the growth rings worry me a bit. I would guess that like most hooves (all hooves, tbh) they would benefit from losing the shoes, losing sugars and cereals from the diet, lots of movement, lots of forage, and a good balancer (I use Pro hoof). Micronised linseed is great too.

But most important of all, they would benefit from an owner who is prepared to put in the hours and educate themselves and is in for the long haul. It's not just about the trim, but you will need someone onside who can trim a horse for barefoot performance and work with the whole horse. I would suggest your farrier is prettifying those hooves and not worrying too much about function.

 

[Landcruiser]

I agree - alfalfa (Hi Fi Lite) isn't recommended for barefoot horses.

 

[laura_nash]

I agree - alfalfa (Hi Fi Lite) isn't recommended for barefoot horses.

I disagree, alfalfa is generally absolutely fine for barefoot horses.

I think people get a bit of a skewed view reading on forums only. There is a proportion of horses, I suspect a small proportion, who don't seem to be able to tolerate alfalfa and develop various issues when on it including hoof problems. For that reason, if people are planning to transition a difficult / last chance horse (e.g. one with navicular), or they have a horse that is barefoot and struggling and they are not sure why, then the advice is often to remove any alfalfa from the diet. That does not mean it is generally not recommended, purely that if you are having problems its best to eliminate any possible source of issues.

In the OP's case their horses feet look pretty good and they haven't even tried without front shoes yet, they might be one of the lucky ones who walk straight out and barely notice, so its a bit soon to be recommending an elimination diet IMO.

 

[laura_nash]

He's currently on 1/2 scoop Hi Fi Lite AM, and 1/2 scoop Hi Fi Lite + 1/2 scoop Coola Mix + 1 small scoop Equimins Hoof Mender PM. Occasionally gets a few horse and pony nuts in a treat ball too. He has access to (and uses) a Himalayan salt lick; I've just bought him a Magnacalm lick too, to see if that helps chill him out when he moves yards this weekend.

Any advice on what feed to change him to? He hots up easily, can be sharp and spooky, but drops condition easily in winter. I've been told linseed hots them up; but I've also been told it doesn't.

If he's happy on his current diet I wouldn't be rushing to change it totally, there isn't much wrong with the current one. I would drop both the licks, particular the new one, Hoof Mender already has magnesium in it. I'm not sure what Coola mix is but have a good look at the ingredients and I suspect that is the one that should go if anything.

Did the improvement in the hoof wall (you mention the cracks are growing out) coincide with any change in diet or management, maybe the introduction of the Hoof Mender? If so, you want to avoid changing that back.

In the longer term, once your settled, you could consider getting a grazing analysis done and swapping the Hoof Mender for a mineral mix based on that.

I've never heard of micronized linseed being heating at all, its a good way to maintain the condition in the winter as it also tops up the Omega 3 which drops in the grass in winter.

 

[cobsarefab]

Hi, I feed linseed oil for coat, hooves and general condition at recommendation of my bf trimmer. My mare is still losing her weight nicely but that's due to everything else I do with her. Also linseed has made no difference to her temperament, she has remained level headed and calm.

 

[ester]

I'm not sure what the spec is on the hoof mender but plenty of barefooters feed the advanced complete formula (including me) and add a bit more magnesium.

micronised linseed is just great for everything . micronised is the best way to feed it and from charnwoods is probably better too as only they have the infra red gubbins required. Of the many people that I know that feed it I have never heard of it hotting anythig up.

 

[Nasicus]

I reckon you'll find that once the shoes come off the fronts, you'll get a spurt of more chipping (self trimming) which will help bring the toe back a bit, and especially as good hoof comes from the diet, so it'll take a while to show in the quality of the hoof/horn itself. If you work closely with Qualified Barefoot Trimmer/Podiatrist, I see no reason why he couldn't go barefoot.

A good idea is to regularly apply Red Horse Artimud or Field Paste to the entire bottom of the hoof, so sole, frog, white line etc. It'll really help keep thrush at bay, and keep the soles in good condition!

As for Linseed, I feed Micronized and it hasn't affected either of my girls attitude wise, and one is 2 1/2yo (aka tends towards hooliganism ). They both get the following bucket feed:
Honey Chop Plain Oat Straw Chaff
Pink Mash
Micronized Linseed
Salt
Progressive Earth Pro Mineral

So basically low starch, low sugar, with gut support and required vits and mins. However, my two are more prone to gaining than losing, so might not work for your guy if he drops weight easy.

 

[ponyparty]

Thanks everyone, knew I'd get some really helpful advice and info

I do already have Nic's first book - going to look on Amazon for the new one now. You're right about people on the yard giving conflicting advice haha! I'm going to seek the help of an equine podiatrist - there are a couple to choose from near me.

I really want to whip his shoes off straight away! But realistically, I think keeping everything ticking over as it is, is the best option for now. I'm away for 2 weeks in December (worst timing ever, who wants to go on holiday when they've just bought a new horse?!) so he'll be in the care of the yard staff - so I want to keep things as simple as possible and give as little opportunity for things to go wrong as possible. Feeling super-anxious about leaving him already!

Then when I get back, I will start changing his feed, and then in the New Year look at taking his shoes off and get an EP out to give me more tailored advice. That'll give me chance to do more research as well as I realise I don't know nearly enough about barefoot.

The photos were taken in September. The hoof rings.... I do wonder if he had low grade laminitis at some point, for various reasons. Bear in mind he was not my horse though, I just had him on part loan so his management wasn't really down to me.
I did add the Hoof Mender to his diet (with owners' permission) because I was so concerned about the cracked hooves, and I would say it does seem to have made a difference. But then grass quality/quantity has reduced and his hooves aren't growing as fast now, so I can't be certain.
Coola mix is, as far as I can see, a cheaper version of Spillers cool mix, so is full of cereals, barley etc.
I might add Speedibeet soon after moving him, he was on it last winter and it suited him.

Lots of food for thought, thanks again all

 

[ponyparty]

Ah... was just thinking. My question about when is the "best" time to transition, was based on the fact that he is stabled overnight and out during the day, in winter. By the time I get to the yard it is too dark to go out walking him on tarmac or anything like that. He'll be exclusively worked in the school except for on Sundays, when I can get to the yard in daylight. So is this going to be enough, to stimulate his hooves in the way that they need to be? Or would I be better waiting until the days are longer so can work him on roads more frequently?

 

[tallyho!]

Ah... was just thinking. My question about when is the "best" time to transition, was based on the fact that he is stabled overnight and out during the day, in winter. By the time I get to the yard it is too dark to go out walking him on tarmac or anything like that. He'll be exclusively worked in the school except for on Sundays, when I can get to the yard in daylight. So is this going to be enough, to stimulate his hooves in the way that they need to be? Or would I be better waiting until the days are longer so can work him on roads more frequently?

Sounds like it would be a gentle introduction and all the while his lateral cartilages will be strengthening as any stimulation will encourage them to get stronger. The nail holes will have grown out. Plus by the sounds of it, all your winter work is on soft surfaces, at the weekends you could tootle along in walk on smooth tarmac if you have any - it's a perfect surface for hooves. By the time the spring and summer comes you'll have healthier feet to start with.

 

[ponyparty]

Sounds like it would be a gentle introduction and all the while his lateral cartilages will be strengthening as any stimulation will encourage them to get stronger. The nail holes will have grown out. Plus by the sounds of it, all your winter work is on soft surfaces, at the weekends you could tootle along in walk on smooth tarmac if you have any - it's a perfect surface for hooves. By the time the spring and summer comes you'll have healthier feet to start with.

Thank you. Makes sense! Now I just want to get those shoes off ASAP haha! Going to look into it more tonight when I get home. Have ordered the second Nic Barker book so can't wait to read that too.

 

[Nasicus]

The photos were taken in September. The hoof rings.... I do wonder if he had low grade laminitis at some point, for various reasons.

It could have been laminitis, but it could also be any number of factors that could cause growth rings, such as change of feed, change of management, trauma etc etc. One of mine had growth rings after a 3 month spell of box rest for example, another had rings from where we moved yard (different forage etc). The hooves can tell us so much, it's fascinating

 

[ponyparty]

It could have been laminitis, but it could also be any number of factors that could cause growth rings, such as change of feed, change of management, trauma etc etc. One of mine had growth rings after a 3 month spell of box rest for example, another had rings from where we moved yard (different forage etc). The hooves can tell us so much, it's fascinating

Yep it really is, I find myself just wanting to learn more and more. Any ideas of other books I can refer to gladly received. Looking forward to the learning curve of this whole process

 

[Arzada]

Yep it really is, I find myself just wanting to learn more and more. Any ideas of other books I can refer to gladly received. Looking forward to the learning curve of this whole process

Learning is one of the great bonuses of going barefoot! You could look at the couple of books at http://www.rockfoot.com/rockfoot_barefoot.html There's also some great information online eg Marjorie Smith http://www.barefoothorse.com/ Pete Ramey http://www.hoofrehab.com/ Nic Barker's blog http://rockleyfarm.blogspot.co.uk/

 

[ester]

Yep it really is, I find myself just wanting to learn more and more. Any ideas of other books I can refer to gladly received. Looking forward to the learning curve of this whole process

uh oh... slippery slope...you will soon find yourself talking to your friends while looking at their horse's feet...

 

[ponyparty]

Well, I've received Nic Barker's second book now and it's all making perfect sense. I need to read it more in depth (I'm terrible for skim-reading things because I'm too impatient to read properly!). Ester, I'm definitely already going that way..!
I've got the farrier booked for a couple of weeks time - I'm off on holiday for 2 weeks after that and don't want to just whip his shoes off and leave him in someone else's care, I'd be so anxious! Plus I don't want to put any additional pressure on his carers while I'm gone.
So I've booked for an EP to come and pull his shoes and assess his feet, and give me some tailored advice, on 23rd January. Plenty of time to read as much as possible on the subject in the meantime. Excited!

 

[ponyparty]

Update... Farrier couldn't come before I went on holiday due to snow. So he came today - and I just had his front shoes pulled off and a very light trim.
Farrier didn't exactly fill me with confidence, he assumed I wouldn't be working Bruce much and said we wouldn't be able to do roadwork. I didn't argue, I just said we'd see how we get on.
Got the EP coming on 23rd to take a look at him anyway.
Have got some Red Horse products on order, should be with me tomorrow. Should I be watching out for anything/doing anything in particular?
I read and re-read Nic Barker's books on holiday, and it all makes sense. Fingers crossed the transition goes smoothly. Any advice/reassurance would be very welcome (particularly after the farrier's comments!).
Got a couple of pics, will try and post in a min.

 

[DD]

I do roadwork with my barefoot cob. there is no option I have to hack 4 miles before I get to a bridleway. my cob goes out upto 3 times a week ,tbh this is rare its usually only once a week . I can now do up to 3 hour hacks. I keep it mostly in walk. my cob now had hard rock crunching feet. it has taken 2 yrs to get to this stage. my farrier says he doesn't need shoes. go very slowly at first 10 mins on tarmac is enough. I could I think do 3 times a week regulally 1 to 2 hr rides. you have to go with your horse and his hooves capabilities. if you want to do more then use boots. feeding isn't that complicated just don't feed any feed with added sugar or molasses .

 

[ponyparty]

Thanks, DD. I'm sure he'll be fine, if I just build him up gradually and don't rush it. He should be ok to work in the school though, right? (rubber and sand)
Feed is all sorted, I changed him over soon after buying him at the end of November to give it a chance to start taking effect before removing his shoes. He's strictly off sugar/molasses - a shame, as a molasses lick was a useful distraction tool at times!

 

[DD]

should be fine in the school. sand is abrasive and should help with the self trimming. when doing roadwork watch out for bits of grit getting into the white line. always pick out feet after work and run the hoof pick round the white line to check for inbedded grit. you might need a nail to remove it. for the first year I had to remove grit almost after every hack now his white lines are so tight that I can trot on stone and grit and hes abslutely fine. which is great. I have also allowed my horses hooves to self trim AND SHAPE AND HAVENT HAD A FARRIER FOR OVER A yEAR NOW THEY ARE NOT THE PRETTIEST OF FEET BUT HES TOTALLY SOUND DOESNT STUMBLE AND GOES GREAT sorry about the caps cap lock on. they are more off centre egg shaped but being toed in that's correct. if he is shod or farrier trimmed he stumbles as they are trimmed to symmetry and it doesn't suit him. sorry I don't have photos .

 

[ycbm]

Farrier didn't exactly fill me with confidence, he assumed I wouldn't be working Bruce much and said we wouldn't be able to do roadwork. I didn't argue, I just said we'd see how we get on.

Got a couple of pics, will try and post in a min.

Sigh ..........

How many more years is it going to take for the WCF to add barefoot working horses to the training syllabus?

This is over ten years now that we've known tarmac is one of the very best surfaces for bare feet.

 

[pansymouse]

Sigh ..........

How many more years is it going to take for the WCF to add barefoot working horses to the training syllabus?

This is over ten years now that we've known tarmac is one of the very best surfaces for bare feet.

Don't tar all farriers with the same brush; mine is actively involved in farrier educational development and very supportive of barefoot. As far as I'm aware all farriers have always been trained to do field and ridden trims. I've had horses since the 1970s and all my farriers have been able to do both.

 

[ponyparty]

I have just been reading my Nic Barker books again to get my confidence back up... It's a scary thing to do when nobody around you knows much about it and misconceptions are bandied around as truth.

I just watched the video I took of him walking in slow motion, definite toe-first landing. Will be interested to see how this changes in the coming weeks and months.

I've got some Red Horse Sole Cleanse and Artimud on order as a preventative measure. His field is so horribly muddy at the moment I figured Artimud has the best chance of staying on (he is stabled overnight though, on flax bedding). I will make sure his white line is free from stones/grit etc, I've heard that Milton sterilising fluid is good too? Or should I not be worrying too much about lotions and potions?!

He's now fed on:
Speedibeet
Dengie Hi Fi Lite
1 small scoop micronised linseed
Equimins Advance Complete
Equimins respiratory booster (as he's had a dry cough for a while - dust allergy, vet reckons. I've also changed his bedding from straw to flax and his forage from hay to haylage. Soaking hay in this weather was destroying my soul!)

 

[Arzada]

Don't tar all farriers with the same brush; mine is actively involved in farrier educational development and very supportive of barefoot. As far as I'm aware all farriers have always been trained to do field and ridden trims. I've had horses since the 1970s and all my farriers have been able to do both.

Ycbm was talking about the WCF training syllabus, not the personal development of farriers. Trimming the performance barefoot horse is not part of the current syllabus.

 

[Alibear]

Following with interest as the farrier is due to take the front shoes off my mare this week. She's got good feet and not on a special diet at the moment. I've been debating the best way to transition for far to long so decided just to try it and see how she goes.