Horrible horse...!

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noodle_

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Overreacting but the way i feel about her atm id happily ship her off for pedigree chum....!!

I bought ayoungster, virtually unhandled and turns out she has a (unsurprisingly!) massive attitude....im not asking her to do anything except get out of my face... if i push her back, ask her to move over etc she will literally push back at me and have a "come on then""! attitude (if you get me...)

being nice does not work, being nasty and using a rope/stick dosent work - ive belted her this morning as i was so close to being kicked (she will lash out), so caught her, asked her to move away from me (She gets right in my face) she just dosent move.

I think because im saying "no" shes just like um why?! which is understandable- but i need to learn to handle her better...

She lives out wth my other mare (who has to live out - end of...!), so that is her only purpose for the next 12 months until I can backbreak her when shes 3...Because im now chasing the brat away from me when im filling up hays/waters etc - my eldest mare wont come near me :( upsetting as she loves a good scratch but shes getting wound up because of the brat.

Before anyone says sell.... its a bad market - its a youngster and frankly i NEED a field mate for my eldest and they get on incredibly well...+ she will make a lovely horse when shes older - her paces are worth hanging onto her....

So firstly how to sort out brat pony? i did ask a while ago (same horse that kicked the **** out of me...)about NI trainers?? I do not want to paste her purely as she WILL fight back...ive not pushed her yet but theres not a doubt in my mind she will....

other option which seem possible is to remove brat pony and put her on youngstock livery for 12 months (shes lived out with only 1 horse in her entire life and could do with a few ponies giving her a damn good hiding - she has little respect fo my older mare...) and get a small older pony/section C/similar to live out with my mare and something i can hack on now and again.....either loan or buy

I dont want to just remove the problem for 12 months and be stuck with a bigger, more aggressive horse - but shes never been with a herd - shes just been on quiet yards and now with my other mare and nothing else - she dosen tknow how to react/run with a herd....

Not really sure what else i can do with her?? Any NI/suggestions pm me please!
nothing massively expensive as funds are tight!

Im never phased by anything on the ground in my life, until now...! and i dont want her picking up on this...

sorry its long :o :o :o
 
she likes to be with you, you must be a nice mummy, however it is annoying when the loving and cuddling is over and you now need your time, if she was mine and the belting and shouting was not working, have you tried the ignoring and moving away from her so she actually realises she is not going to get anymore attention so will walk away on her own, and then final if a 500ml coke bottle empty with a couple of small stones in it, lid back on, when you say no and it is ignored shake the bottle it makes a hell of a noise and she will move away probably run, a good tool for horses that nap as well.
 
I would def send her out on Youngstock livery and let her learn her place. Personably I find young horses who haven't been out in any sort of own age group rather difficult to deal with as they jUst don't understand boundaries.
 
my 2 year old gelding can be a bit like that, not kicking or anything but loves attention and doesn't like being pushed away! I got a natural horsemanship lady out to help me with some ground work and it has made a real difference! she showed me a few simple tricks to get him out of my space and i have used these in the field when he wont leave me alone, or have adapted them if needed! the main thing was to make myself as big as possible, arms in the air, jumping and waving in his face to get him to back out of the way! he had a problem with following me while poo picking and rearing up in my face and boxing out of at me! i was so scared but now if he starts to follow me, if ignoring him doesn't work i will run at him and rawww with my arms in the air! he soon gives us!

also he and my 27yr old mare where out together alone, which was the problem as she wouldnt play with him but now he has 2 6 yr old friends he's got less energy and is more likely to leave me alone!

can you afford to get another little one for him to play with, rather than sending him off somewhere else for a year?? something that he can play with!
 
thanks all - im terrified of her getting shy/head shy as she is heading for a severe belting!....

she does follow me round like a dog which is lovely but she is nasty when it involves food (she was imo a little under nourished when i bought her !) so can understand that


problem is with shaking/rattling things - it upsets other mare - who is sensitive anyhow and colic prone from sterss...... last thing i want is to upset her totally :(
 
I would send youngster off for some lessons in manners!!
then buy an older horse to keep your mare company (there are lots of elderly horses that need good homes that are still able to hack about... your poor mare will prob be glad of the peace!)

good luck x
 
FfionWinnie said:
Richard Maxwell book train your young horse. I wouldn't chase her away with anything, you don't want to make her spooky, just to respect you.
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I agree with this totally, but if you are clever then you can encourage her to give you space by surprising her with the plastic bag, or as suggested coke bottle with stones in. Don't both Richard Maxwell and Monty Roberts encourage horses to move away from them when practising join up?
 
A friend of mine had a big horse, 17hh, that would just barge into her and walk all over her. She had lady come out to help her with the horse and what she did worked. We all stood in field and when horse came over to barge in the lady just stood waving her arm about. If the horse came too close it got hit with her arm. All the time no eye contact with the horse was made. She pointed out that the horse had a choice, either barge into your space and get hit, or stand back. It wouldn't make the horse headshy as your not actually going at the horse to hit it, it just gets hit by a waving arm if its in your space. It worked within about 10 mins.
 
noodle_ said:
I bought ayoungster, virtually unhandled and turns out she has a (unsurprisingly!) massive attitude

Why is it unsuprising?

....im not asking her to do anything except get out of my face...

She obviously does not understand you

if i push her back, ask her to move over etc she will literally push back at me and have a "come on then""! attitude (if you get me...)

Nope never known a horse with that attitude they are flight animals-she does not understand you

being nice does not work, being nasty and using a rope/stick dosent work - ive belted her this morning as i was so close to being kicked

if your close to being kicked why kick her first? she obviously retaliates!

(she will lash out), so caught her, asked her to move away from me (She gets right in my face) she just dosent move.

she does not understand you

... i need to learn to handle her better...

on this I agree


Before anyone says sell.... its a bad market - its a youngster and frankly i NEED a field mate for my eldest and they get on incredibly well...+ she will make a lovely horse when shes older - her paces are worth hanging onto her....

only if you sort out the issues now

So firstly how to sort out brat pony? i did ask a while ago (same horse that kicked the **** out of me...)about NI trainers?? I do not want to paste her purely as she WILL fight back...ive not pushed her yet but theres not a doubt in my mind she will....

this poor animal sounds like it has real issues, glad you dont want to paste her and that she will stand up for herself

other option which seem possible is to remove brat pony and put her on youngstock livery for 12 months (shes lived out with only 1 horse in her entire life and could do with a few ponies giving her a damn good hiding - she has little respect fo my older mare...) and get a small older pony/section C/similar to live out with my mare and something i can hack on now and again.....either loan or buy

whilst this may give you a pony a break it wont sort out any problems

I dont want to just remove the problem for 12 months and be stuck with a bigger, more aggressive horse - but shes never been with a herd - shes just been on quiet yards and now with my other mare and nothing else - she dosen tknow how to react/run with a herd....

as above

Not really sure what else i can do with her?? Any NI/suggestions pm me please!
nothing massively expensive as funds are tight!

Im never phased by anything on the ground in my life, until now...! and i dont want her picking up on this...

sorry its long :o :o :o
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get an instructor to come and see how you both interact together and offer some advice or look around and ask about for suggestions as to a place to send her for a month or two for lots of groundwork to help her understand what you are asking
 
Charlie007 said:
A friend of mine had a big horse, 17hh, that would just barge into her and walk all over her. She had lady come out to help her with the horse and what she did worked. We all stood in field and when horse came over to barge in the lady just stood waving her arm about. If the horse came too close it got hit with her arm. All the time no eye contact with the horse was made. She pointed out that the horse had a choice, either barge into your space and get hit, or stand back. It wouldn't make the horse headshy as your not actually going at the horse to hit it, it just gets hit by a waving arm if its in your space. It worked within about 10 mins.
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This ^^^^^
Wear a baseball cap. When horse gets too close take it off your head by the peak and extend your arm sharply in the horses direction. If its too close it gets a smack with the soft part of the hat. Don't chase the horse with it, just stand your ground. The advantage of this is that it's on your head ready to be used and it won't hurt them. ;)It does work.:cool: Mine learnt in 10 min.
 
second reading Richard Maxwell's book it is very useful, but a visit from a natural horsemanship trainer will pay dividends. If you are looking to back the horse in the future then this is the ideal time to make a start at asserting some leadership. It sounds like you will have your work cut out.

Max uses a number of techniques to get the horse out of your space and will use his elbow sharply to get the horse to back off (not hand that is for praise). A good poke in the nose with a finger helps if the horse creeps back into your space.

But it is time for some groundwork to get your relationship back on track - and you can't learn all of this from a book. There are lots of exercises that you can do with your horse that you will both enjoy.
 
The horse isn't horrid at all. Look at it from her point of view. Someone keeps challenging her position as herd leader. This person isn't capable of being in charge, & mild warnings haven't been heeded. So much so that this lower ranking herd member is now trying to keep her away from food & trying to fight back, ineffectually. So she's had to up the threats & warnings to physical contact. Not horrid at all, just natural. The more you try & force her to respect you, the more effort she puts into retaliation. I think you need someone to help you with the groundwork, what I'd do won't work if your body language is wrong.
 
I could have written the same thing 12 months ago about my 5yo gelding. I just spend a lot of time working with him teaching him to move out of my space on the stable. His bolshy behaviour was insecurity as he had been moved around a lot (he was his own herd leader) I found he was worse when he was with others as he would bully them and was aggressive over feed and hay. I actually then had to gave him on his own and did lots of reiki with him as he was holding so much anger inside. The moment he let go relaxed and realised he was a nit going anywhere and that someone else could be in charge he has relaxed and is now no longer in your face. Yes he has his moments but he now is a pleasure to own.
 
I also will say IMO the best thing I did when I weaned my foal a few years ago want to put him In a heard of other horses the same age. Horses need to lean how heard dynamics work and if I'd had my gelding as a youngster early enough that's what I would have done. I suspect that with my horse in his early years he would have been the bottom ranking youngster out with older horses and therefore never had to learn as such. Then he was moved around as so much he never had time to settle.
 
Ground work, ground work and yet more ground work. Scaring her or even getting violent wont work prob just cause more issues.

Agree with youngster training or Richard maxwell suggestions.
 
What you have here is a total lack of communication.
You need to learn about why the horse is behaving as she is.
You need to learn some proper techniques to deal with this. There are lots, it's just knowing what they are and how to apply them.
Proper groundwork skills will sort this and build your leadership skills.
Violence, will not help, and get you into battles you will lose.
Best of luck.
 
We bought a completely unhandled rather large 3 year old 5 years ago. Never even had a head collar on, just herded on and off the lorry. God knows why we did it, but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

She was turned out with my old gelding and our cob mare. For months she was turned out and brought in by opening gates and her stable door. When we went into the stable she threatened and did the same when she was touched.

We probably did it all wrong, well I certainly did, but we brought her round with love and attention. When she was completely comfortable with us she learned some manners. Have to say that was from my uncle and daughter, she has never respected me.

5 years later she is still quirky but we have worked through most of the issues (except the vet :D ) The general opinion from experts is that she had to look after herself and her fieldmates before we got her. This has meant she doesn't think she needs us to make decisions for her.

She has never kicked or bitten but I think she would have done if we had pushed a confrontation in the early days. Being stabled at night and fed certainly helped our relationship with her, I dont think we would have got very far if she had been in the field 24/7

Given the time again I would not have done it. However I have gone from calling her "The Beast" to actually having a few affectionate names for her :D

She was not the boss in the field and she still isn't, the other two are above her. However her attitude to life is confrontational. A good example I have quoted before is we were hacking all three round the fields and came to a large black puddle. My oldie jumped in it, the little cob refused and tried to tiptoe round it, "The Beast" snorted at it, and when it didn't move as instructed she attacked it with her front legs :D :D
 
Time and a lot of backing off and not pushing too much,but doing very small things that will build up your confidense in yourself and in her, she's bolshy because she can,sometime a harsh NO, makes them step back. My hubby says I have a Sargent Majors voice and my lot including dogs take note, where my Hubby has a mild voice and not one of them take notice and take advantage of him,like Buster trying to nip out through the front door,where I tell him to stay,Hubby didn't say anything and the dog thought it was good to go,He will attack other dogs and cats are fair game:mad::mad::mad:.So Hubby got a blasting from me that should last at least 2 weeks, before he forgets again.:mad::mad::mad:
 
digger66 said:
This ^^^^^
Wear a baseball cap. When horse gets too close take it off your head by the peak and extend your arm sharply in the horses direction. If its too close it gets a smack with the soft part of the hat. Don't chase the horse with it, just stand your ground. The advantage of this is that it's on your head ready to be used and it won't hurt them. ;)It does work.:cool: Mine learnt in 10 min.
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Ditto this, until I read this post this is what I was going to recommend. My old-school instructor showed me this years ago with a bargy youngster and it worked a treat.
 
littlelegs said:
The horse isn't horrid at all. Look at it from her point of view. Someone keeps challenging her position as herd leader. This person isn't capable of being in charge, & mild warnings haven't been heeded. So much so that this lower ranking herd member is now trying to keep her away from food & trying to fight back, ineffectually. So she's had to up the threats & warnings to physical contact. Not horrid at all, just natural. The more you try & force her to respect you, the more effort she puts into retaliation. I think you need someone to help you with the groundwork, what I'd do won't work if your body language is wrong.
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Spot on as usual LL.
I swapped a mornings work for a 3yr old Anglo Arab colt untouched 3yrs ago.Herd raised,best mannered horse I have ever met.The only way I ever made progress with him was after reading Mark Rashid on passive leadership.
Horses aren't born horrible,only insecure !Don't give up op, be the leader this insecure young horse needs.
 
A firm tone of voice does work with horses, dogs, cats and kids.
It's the tone, not the volume that does it, my lad is quite dominant and does take advantage if allowed, I won't allow our horses to approach feeds (for example) till I say they can, he fidgets and snakes his head with ears back, but won't go for his bucket till I tell him, in 3 yrs I have only hit him once, that was for taking off back to the barn while being bathed.
I often growl at animals with my hands on my hips, which would make me look bigger (unintentional).
I would try working with your horse in the stable, using a control halter of your choice, just getting it to back up/move over/stand, progress to the yard, then the field.
Good luck, you have your hands full
 
Pale Rider said:
What you have here is a total lack of communication.
You need to learn about why the horse is behaving as she is.
You need to learn some proper techniques to deal with this. There are lots, it's just knowing what they are and how to apply them.
Proper groundwork skills will sort this and build your leadership skills.
Violence, will not help, and get you into battles you will lose.
Best of luck.
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^^^^^ This, exactly.

Skipping to your further post, PR, re 'growling'.. I am ok with that as I think we need to have a means of conveying our displeasure and we don't have the moveable ears of a horse!! I actually tend to uh-uh-uh now, which is the same.
 
You make no mention of when you are ever nice to her so for me this explains a lot about why she is in your face and bolshy, positive reinforcement is the way forward, reward her for her good behaviour even if it is small, like one step back when you ask, it can be a treat or a stroke, if you lead her about reward her every time you stop and back her up, this reinforces you are the boss, she will like that your have taken the leader role, it means she doesn't have to worry about being the leader or who is the leader, most horses prefer not to be in a management role, they prefer being in customer services!

Simply using NO as a word that means 'I dislike you present behaviour' and only using that word, helps the horse a lot. They soon cotton on that that word means, no praise, I am not happy with you, I have done something wrong, when she does mess up, ask something of her quickly even if it is something completely different from what you intended to do, something simple, and reward her for doing that well, so you never end up finishing on a bad request.

You will be amazed how quickly she comes round, when she learns what pleases the leader, all the shouting in the world won't work, if you think back to school, if you went and the teachers just hollered at you and walloped you what would you have felt about learning?
 
Hi noodle. Firstly I totally understand where you are coming from. I have an older mare who gets worried easily, hates shouting, waving arms etc and I had on loan a 5 yr old bolshy cob who was very in your face, broke through fences, charged at dogs and people, generally had no respect for anything although his problem was that he was over friendly. Sadly he had to go for other reasons but I did end up resenting him because he really affected my relationship with my mare and made life with the horses so much more stressful. I did end up getting a 22yr old pony who is much more respectful and the relationship him and my mare have is so lovely to see - 2 peas in a pod!

Anyway, I am great believer in the natural order of things so I think she could do with at least several months out with a herd to teach her some manners, learn some etiquette about respect, moving away, taught to her by other horses. See if you can find an older pony as a companion on loan, maybe try a local rescue centre, for your mare. ( I never said I would have three horses but this little chap we got is so good and so easy you would never know he was there so as and when my daughter grows out of him he will probably stay!)

Mark Rashids books are an excellent read to understand leadership. I would also second that fighting with your mare doesn't sound like it would work but you almost need to think like a horse. Make your self as big as possible but not necessarily scary. Arm yourself with something that will give her a smart telling off (think how a horse would go at her with their teeth) if she goes for you. With the not moving over, you need to make it her only choice, in that she is going to be uncomfortable if she doesn't move over. Put pressure on her that could become uncomfortable... If she backs off the pressure lessens, if she doesn't back off the pressure increases or even hurts.... Think about how in a herd a putting back of the ears tells another horse to back off, if that doesn't work, a stamped foot, a shake of a head increasing to full on bared teeth, lashing out attack if the other horse doesn't back off is the natural way and it sounds like your mare has not had that 'education' from other horses.

And when she does something that pleases you reward her with something she likes a scratch or even just more relaxed body language. I learnt with my mare who is ultra ultra respectful that she doesn't really like being patted or smothered with love, for her a reward is a small stroke along her neck or a small food treat or evn just stepping back with a quiet 'good girl' to take the pressure off her is what she sees as reward for good behaviour. However I d ounderstand that all horses are different - I saw someone do some parelli work on a horse on a long line, sending them away with a stick, bringing them in, turning them round in a lorry park at a show the other day and was amazed at how agressive it was, so much movement and rush but over heard her saying that she needed to get that respect from the horse before she tried to load it otherwise he trampled all over her! Doing this with him meant that he would follow her rather than run her over. My mare would have just shrivelled to bits!

Good luck
 
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do you actually do any handling with her :confused: is she halter broke? I'd be inclined to start with some groundwork to get her listening in-hand. build a relationship with her now rather than waiting until she's ready to be backed.

my big girl learnt to use her size to intimidate people when she was younger, she had a whole array of threats she would use and if you backed off she would literally walk all over you. Her old owner refused to let this put her off and ignored the threats and handled her firmly but quietly, showing her the boundaries and teaching her that bullying from either side doesn't work.
Big girl will still test a new handler and take the pee with those who back off but with those who are quietly confident she's an angel;)
 
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