Horrible incident and advice needed!

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Elvis

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The other day a friend and I were merrily walking back to the yard after a good hack, both horses were completely relaxed. We were walking past a lake which the horses regularly ride around, and saw a lady sitting in the long grass fishing, we acknowledged her as she did us, she was about 20feet from us, as we approached she suddenly announced she had three dogs (which we hadn't seen lying down in the long grass) and they were about to leap up, almost mid sentence, all 3 dogs jumped up out of the long grass and chased our horses which both bolted (understandably so) neither I or my friend could regain control, they were galloping in blind panic, we soon realised the fast approaching concrete bridge between fields was not wide enough for both horses who were side by side, I managed to steer my horse left away from the bridge and into some boggy long grass towards a hedge which thankfully stopped him, unfortunately my friend wasn't as lucky and her horse leapt sideways causing her to lose a stirrup and subsequently fall off and roll 6ft in long stinging nettles, with her horse accidentally knocking her in the head with his knee on her way down. By the time I'd managed to jump off my horse my friend had dissapeared into the next field chasing after her horse, I tried to follow her but dealing with 17hh of thoroughbred who was scared out of his skin cantering a 5m circle around me and rearing on the spot meant I couldn't run after her, so I decided to wait in the field in case her horse came back. This is when the lady with her 3 dogs (now on leads) appeared again, asking if she could come past me! The sight of her three dogs sent my horse even more loopy, I firmly told her no and to turn around and walk away as she was upsetting my horse. She then said "I could shoot these dogs sometimes they are always doing this!" She was lucky I was pre-occupied with calming my horse down, anyway she dissapeared without saying sorry or asking if my friend or her horse were okay.
When my friend finally reappeared on her horse it was clear she had concussion and was covered in stings, a trip to A&E revealed a mild head injury and the need for anti-histamines to sort out the stings. What annoys us the most is the fact she saw us ages before she mentioned the dogs, she had plenty of time to put them on leads or mention she had dogs that weren't good around horses, she could have even asked us to go the other way round the lake!
We were very lucky neither horses sustained injuries/ended up in the lake or that my friend wasn't more injured.
We decided that it would be worthwhile getting an experienced friend out that night to ride the horses round the lake when we knew no-one would be fishing, they were both very tense the first time round, but more settled the second time round. However this field has now been closed for use for the rest of the summer, so what can we do now to instill positive experiences for the horses, we are worried they won't be confident in long grass now and may bolt if even a bird jumps out of long grass, we are also worried they may be petrified of dogs now. It's a real pickle as both horses have previously been fab hackers and others on the yard don't have suitable horses to teach ours to be confident again.

Sorry for the long post! Well done if you got this far!
 
sorry to hear you have had a terrible time out but i am not sure what i would do though.
i suppose that lady with 3 dogs would have said she had the same rights as you do in enjoying the countryside. i suspect it all boils down to awareness and education at the end of the day...
i used to ride on the beach and got chased by dogs. sometimes i wished the horse would actually stopped and give them a good kick!!!
 
Yes my friend mentioned how she would happily shoot her dogs for her (once I'd told her what had happened-short term memory loss)

And just to clarify, we were both wearing riding hats.

Just wondering, if it's a public bridle way is it a requirement to have dogs on a lead? Not that it matters now...
 
Oh poor you, what a horrid thing to happen. Really hope there is no long term damage done. Just for information purposes, I believe that dogs need to be kept on a short lead on public or common land between 1st march and beg August (although dont quote exact dates) unless near livestock or crops and then they should be leashed at all times.
 
Showpony- that's what we were planning on doing but they've shut the field now for the rest of the summer! :( won't be able to take them on that route again until winter.
 
The Wife- That's interesting about the dates.

And as stupid as this might sound, are horses counted as livestock? As our field is right next to the lake field (we were so close to home when this happened) and therefore horses are nearby at all times, so surely her dogs should have been on a lead anyway.
 
What an awful experience for you both. My first horse had a similar bad experience. She wasn't a youngster but went from a happy hacker to being very spooked by dogs. I booked her in for a series of lessons in different arenas with an instructor who had a dog who was used to horses. The dog would be off the lead and mooching about but didn't chase my horse.

May be you could ring the dog warden to report this lady for having out of control dogs. Too late for you and your friend but her details will be on file if something similar happens in the future.
 
Elvis said:
The Wife- That's interesting about the dates.

And as stupid as this might sound, are horses counted as livestock? As our field is right next to the lake field (we were so close to home when this happened) and therefore horses are nearby at all times, so surely her dogs should have been on a lead anyway.
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Just checked, it's 1st march - 31st July, due to nesting birds (manly intended for game I believe). It's actually open country and common land but CA advises dogs to be kept under close control at all times regardless and it is a criminal offence not to do so.

Quoted from protection of livestock Act 1953

“livestock” means cattle, sheep, goats, swine, horses, or poultry, and for the purposes of this definition “cattle” means bulls, cows, oxen, heifers or calves, “horses” includes asses and mules, and “poultry” means domestic fowls, turkeys, geese or ducks.
 
BHS would be grateful if you could fill in their online form. Their is also some advise on their site. - http://www.horseaccidents.org.uk/Advice_and_Prevention/Dog_Attacks.aspx

It is unlawful to have a dog out of control in a public place i.e. Bridleway. However some police forces deal better than others. My mare was attacked on a hack by a GSD (7 puncture wounds) and the police couldn't have been any less interested if they tried! :(

My mare took a while to be confident with dogs again (no help by being chased by another on the beach a few months later), but is now fine with all except big black & tan ones which still make her tense.
 
Report to the bhs. :( it's happened a couple of times on our yard too, you can only hope the horse will kick out but most seem to run first and think later. Hope you've calmed down, it must have been awful.
 
If the field is now closed to riders then it doesn't sound like a public bridleway

If it's private land and the fishing was by permit then perhaps the lady could be traced and the dog warden could pay a visit?
 
Thanks piebaldsparkle and foxford, has now been reported to BHS.

WelshD;

Of course, I'd always thought of it as a bridle way as it is a field between two bridle ways, however it is privately owned as people do pay to fish there however it is also open to the public to walk through, the lady who owned the field was contacted and she said she had no-one booked in to hire it, therefore it was just a member of the public who will be hard to trace...

Does it matter if the land is private, in regards to horses and keeping dogs on leads?

I just hope this doesn't have a long term affect on the horses, mine is only young and has always been anxious around dogs but now I'm not sure he'll be manageable at all around dogs.
 
Just to clarify "nesting birds" means ground nesting wild birds not game birds!
I had the same thing happen to me on common land, three dogs came haring over barking at the horse i was on and it spun and bolted ( and yes i do mean bolted) and i fell off!! Bloody woman and her dogs were a PITA always loose and chasing horses and cattle! A few letters were sent to her via the committee for the common, but were mostly ignored i feel!
 
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How scary. Wonder what would have happened if a family was walking by and a dog knocked over a child? Easily could have happened.

My horses are not afraid of dogs. If one goes in their field quietly or for a chase I have 2 mares that will turn around to attack. But it's their field and they're comfortable in said surroundings. A few weeks ago I was riding by the dog pen where 2 hounds are kept. These 2 are horrible. Their pen is overgrown and the dogs were quiet. Halfway by and one leaps up snarling and barking like an idiot. It scared me and the mare. Those dogs have horse go by daily. Anyway thankfully my mare listened to me and the dogs weren't loose. Loose and I woud have been in trouble. And in the situation that happened to you mine would have done the same. Not because I haven't gotten them used to dogs but because it was a surprise attack. We walk by loads of houses on hacks with snarling barking dogs. They present themselves before we arrive and so far have been contained. Those they don't care about. But surprises, nope, instinct takes over.

I'm glad you and the horses were ok for the most part. Really horrible situation.

Terri
 
Thanks for reporting this incident to the www.horseaccidents.org.uk web site.

If it is private land then there is sadly little that can be done unless the dog owner can be identified and the land owner takes action.

Please see this leaflet:
http://www.bhs.org.uk/~/media/BHS/Files/PDF Documents/Safety leaflets/Dogs and Horses leaflet.ashx

The laws relating to dogs are:

UK Law -Dogs (Protection of Livestock) Act 1953

The law is designed to punish the owner of any dog found worrying livestock on agricultural land.

For this piece of legislation to be used, the dog must be found attacking or chasing livestock or at large, not on a lead or under control, in a field or enclosure containing livestock. An offence is punishable by a fine on the owner or keeper of the dog of up to £1,000.

The Animals Act 1971 can also be used in cases where a dog is caught worrying livestock. It states anyone who is the keeper of a dog that is caught damaging by killing or injuring livestock is liable for the damage. This means the farmer can sue the dog owner for compensation.

In certain circumstances, a farmer or landowner has the right to shoot a dog found attacking or worrying his or her livestock, for example to act for the protection of any livestock if, and only if, either the dog is worrying or about to worry the livestock and there are no other reasonable means of ending or preventing the worrying; or the dog has been worrying livestock, has not left the vicinity and is not under the control of any person and there are no practicable means of ascertaining to who it belongs.

If you are unfortunate enough to suffer such an attack you should report the matter to the police stating that you where in ‘apprehension of injury’ due to the dog’s actions potentially causing you to be thrown. It can be argued that there was an offence under Section 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991. The case of R v Nash 2011 at Birmingham Magistrates Court, Appealed to Crown and upheld by HH Judge Faber, held that the offence was complete if the dog’s conduct was enough for the rider to apprehend injury by way of causation.
If the Police still refuse to take action, you should complain to the Independent Police Complaints Commission.

Environmental Protection Act 1990 as amended.
State that the dog is a statutory nuisance.
Can be used for a pool of effluent across a highway.
Can be used to shift an aggressive stallion from a field with a bridleway.
To prevent a field of lamas on the other side of a fence alongside a bridleway.
The county can serve notice.

The Town Police Clauses Act 1847
Dog owners have a duty to ensure that their animals does not threaten or harm a member of the public. The act makes it an offence for any ‘unmuzzled ferocious dog’ to be at large in any street (the term is defined as including any public passage and therefore covers all rights of way).

The Dogs (Protection of Livestock) act 1953 and the animals act 1971 are important in assessing liability for harm done by dogs.
 
I don't think there's a requirement for dogs to be on a lead but they must be under control - it's perfectly possible for a well trained dog to be under control and walking at heel without being on a lead.

Regarding your horses I would suggest that you try and find a horse friendly dog who you can have aorund your horses, walk them out in hand and then ride out with them so the horses can get used to dogs who don't chase them.
Also report to the police - it's possible this has happened before and they know who it is, even if they don't then its all information should it happen again and then it's on a record
 
Agree with finding a horse friendly dog. I badly wanted to be able to hack out with youngest Stafford and my young horse. It did take an awfully long time as trained my dog with my completely non reactive mare then out on young horse with a non reactive horse as well. Took about 6 months but the payoff is that my slightly sharp youngster no longer cares about people and dogs appearing in front of him or crashing around in the woods. Been a complete godsend.
 
That sounds terrible and really frightening. I would have offered to shot the dogs aswell!

No advice really other than an experience I had. Long story short, was hacking through woods when all of a sudden a dog ran after us and pounced. It was on my boys back trying to latch on to the top of his tail. MY boy is 17h so it was a big dog. I assume the dog saw my boy as prey and was trying to bring him down. Owner didn't help by picking up a stick and thrashing it around trying to get dog off. MY poor boy was kicking out and running round in circles, I had no control at all. Good news is that it hasn't,the affected him with dogs at all, and he is a really sensitive chap, so it could easily have put him off for life. Definitely agree with finding a horse friendly dog. ( I have two you could borrow!) having the field closed will hopefully give your horses time to ' forget and the best bit is your horses have both been round the lake again and have ended on a positive note. Glad your all ok.
 
Whereabouts in the country are you OP? Coz my traddie boy is totally oblivious to dogs; you could basically organise a dog-fight in his stable right under his feet and he'd just stand there guzzling......... I'd willingly ride out with yours if you were remotely in my area or could box your horses to us. We have to deal with a lot of dogs barking behind homeowners' gates around here, plus my little terrier tears around the yard like something possessed. All the horses are totally oblivious to him and indeed any other dog doing daft stuff. But my dogs would never chase a horse; my loan mare wouldn't have that! Plus she'll chase next door's runts out of the field and they don't come in here now.

However, dogs actually chasing a horse in open country on a hack is quite a different matter and places a whole new dynamic on the thing; there was an incident on the common around here back-a-long where some stooopid numpty old git let his dog chase a horse, not even realising what the s@dding thing was doing, and the horse (predictably) legged it and the rider fell off and was quite seriously injured.

Think you should report this incident to your local dog warden. This woman obviously knows she's got dogs which are out of control, and has failed to sort it and/or keep them restrained. Where is this going to stop? Children on ponies, old people who're less stable on their feet, kiddies in pushchairs - this is a situation waiting to happen basically. Why TF can't people control their bl@ddy dogs???:(

So awful you were shaken up by this but good that no serious injuries were sustained.

I wonder if it would be of benefit to have a chat with a professional as to how to get your horses' confidence back again; I have a lovely friend who would be just right as she understands the dynamics of both horses AND dogs, and owners!!! Perhaps there is someone in your area who might be able to help? Possibly it would need some kind of controlled exposure to dogs, no more than the horses can deal with the start with, followed by a "reward", i.e. rubbing neck, praise etc, THEN go on to longer exposure with possibly noisier dogs, and go from there.

Have a look at the Michael Peace website: might give you some ideas? He's good with this sort of stuff..........
 
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You can report this to the polic a similar thing happened to us in which a rottweiler attacked Tessy who luckily booted it in the gob before it could sink its horrible jaws into her back leg ! Police delt with is swiftly and woman has been warned ... dog now walked out in muzzle and with a harness.


If i was you i would try and meet as many dogs as possible ( friends dogs perhaps ?) even if your in the school and have them standing at the side then get friend to walk dog out with your horses for a quiet little hack ?

I know its difficult not to as its sounds terrifying your experience but don't get prepared when you see either a dog or long grass for horses to take off as they will develop issues from you getting panicky.


They will no doubt of moved on by now :) Tess was spooky at dogs for a few days afterwards but has settled happily now.

Hope you and friend are better now !
 
How dreadful. You are so lucky both your horses weren't hurt. Hows your friend feeling now? A bit of good news... horses live in the here and now, and with the field now closed for a while, by the time its re-opened and you get back hacking round there, hopefully the grass will have been cut and it will look a bit different. You'll most likely find your horses will be ok and it will be you and your friend who will be doing all the worrying. As mentioned any chance you could bump into someone who has a "horse proof dog" whilst your on a hack even if its just outside the yard gates to say a quick hello, so the horse can see a dog on a lead and if your not bothered he will probably not get bothered either. The most important thing is not to let your horse pick up on any of your worries when theres a dog around. Think i would have "offered" to shoot the woman too!!
 
Whilst it is a good idea to introduce your horses to horse friendly dogs, it will not help your horses if they ever get chased again by out of control dogs. This could have ended with horrendous consequences for you and your friend, and both horses. I would most definitely report the incident to the police and dog warden. The owner said the dogs had done this before, so maybe other people have lodged complaints? You really need to find out who she is, so maybe you or a friend could visit the same location at different times, on foot of course, to see if she is fishing there again. Does she need a permit to fish in that location, in which case, the person issuing the pert might know her and her dogs... she needs sorting and dogs trained before they cause a fatality...
 
I agree with Superhot. My horses are ridden with a GSD trailing behind, my dogs in and out of bushes, I even use them in the fields as pheasant flushers when in my big fields. It was the element of surprise and a chase. And 3 dogs can inflict serious harm to horse and rider. Those stupid hounds that live here attacked one of my dogs when we stood around chatting. My dog was inbetween the legs of my husband as he was petting her. The other 3 were just standing around and as quick as you like the 3 of them worked as an organised pack to take her down. 3 adults and my husband trying to get our dog in the door and the other 3 off. Just lucky we were next to the door to the house. Had we all not been there my dog would have been dead.

So getting used to dogs will not prevent some incidents from being a total disaster. Those hounds that live here have no real training. I get it's not their fault but I hate them. They did go after my mares once in their field. They weren't long about retreating. The owners call and call and they don't listen. It's a human problem obviously but that's what makes some dog situations very tricky. It's not black or white.

Terri
 
There are far too many irresponsible dog owners spoiling things for others. I would contact the local paper with a full description of dogs and owner. Personally I don't advocate hacking with a loosr dog in tow as I think it sends out the wrong signals, and how can you hack safely plus watching the dog all the time. Conjures up the imageof someone hacking whilst carrying a bag of dog poo.
 
Hard thing is getting persons details to report them. My mare, whilst I have been on her, has been attacked twice by GSD (I'm not anti them, think they can be lovely breed, just that's what they were). You're so busy dealing with after effects (like how to get you & your horse out of the ditch she has been scared backwards into) you don't have chance to say take a photo of the person before they run off. So what exactly can you report to the police?

I resorted to putting up posters around woods with description of person & dog, & in local shops, warning other riders.

Yet again this sunday, was walking down a road, lady walks towards us with a dalmation off lead (very quite country road - but he still should have been on a lead). He trots by fine, then turns & starts to come near their quarters (2 of us riding out). Owner not bothered, so we tell her neither horse is good with dogs & if he comes close he will get kicked, & btw they wear steel shoes. Suddenly owner cares enough to call dog away from us. The other rider owns 2 dogs herself, she'd never let them behave like this around horses. People only give a toss when their dog may be hurt (from its own actions - not the horse misbehaving) & they may get a vet bill.

It's that standard line they give of 'oh he wont hurt - he's only playing'. To which I give the standard reply of if he plays close behind he will probably be kicked with steel shoes & may well die from his injuries. I don't want to spoil their walk, but they should control their dog & not put riders in danger.
 
pip6 said:
It's that standard line they give of 'oh he wont hurt - he's only playing'. To which I give the standard reply of if he plays close behind he will probably be kicked with steel shoes & may well die from his injuries. I don't want to spoil their walk, but they should control their dog & not put riders in danger.
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This really annoys me when they say that their dog/s only want to play! The real truth is that their dogs are out of control.
 
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