Horrible situation - same sex aggression rehoming problem

My German Shepherd ripped another dog's ear in her last home. Now she's with me, I can't imagine her having an aggressive bone in her body. I never fully trusted her with my other dog and they were never left alone for a second, but she's never so much as grumbled here. Of course nobody will ever know why she fought with her previous companion, but I know it wasn't the first time. I'm guessing the other bitch bullied her and she was defending herself at the time, but I just wanted to make the point that it doesn't mean you have an aggressive dog, just because she has an issue with another dog, it just means that whoever ends up with her needs to manage her carefully. I'd try a breed specific rescue if you can.
 
One of our bitches absolutely hates one of our other bitches. They will get along fine for months and then have a massive fight resulting in vet bills for both.
After the first fight they were separated apart from when working. 2 years with no issues so we let them stay out together and about 6 mouths after one got injured again. Rinse and repeat.

Now they are older, they get along ok but can’t be in a confined space together. The instigator is a lovely soft dog who has never looked sideways at anything or anyone else, but by gum she hates her sister!

Anyway the point is that even with many years of trying different strategies, we haven’t fixed it. She’s a lovely dog, kind with kids and a good worker, but it has taken a lot of managing and we couldn’t have done it in a pet home situation.

I really hope you manage to find a suitable home 💐
 
Sometimes things are not as black and white as people would like. Saying pts is easy when you are sat typing it out. Yes pts is a option but there are others. There are emotions involved here. I would advise contacting some rescues for help .
 
Sandstone1 said:
Sometimes things are not as black and white as people would like. Saying pts is easy when you are sat typing it out. Yes pts is a option but there are others. There are emotions involved here. I would advise contacting some rescues for help .
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I'm not sure about that. While its a hideous thing to do and heartbreaking, this is a huge dog that inflicted a level 4 bite. What future is there for it realistically? If rescue took her on and rehomed her and she attacked another dog then there could be huge legal and reputational damages.
 
I’d rather not encounter such a dog with a bite history like that out and about when walking my on lead JRT, say on a narrow path.

So far the attacks have been within the household, which does sound to be pretty chaotic. Who is to know whether they could later escalate to dogs met outside of the home?

I’m in the PTS camp.
 
I'm Dun said:
I'm not sure about that. While its a hideous thing to do and heartbreaking, this is a huge dog that inflicted a level 4 bite. What future is there for it realistically? If rescue took her on and rehomed her and she attacked another dog then there could be huge legal and reputational damages.
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I do not disagree that it may come to pts and do understand that its a big dog thats bitten badly but it may be able to live as a only dog with the right home. Yes, it would be difficult to get the right home but asking for advice from reputable rescues would be a first step.
 
The other thing some people may be forgetting is that this wasn't 2 dogs fighting, it was an attack.
 
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I'm Dun said:
The problem is they are all full to bursting and wont take a dog thats bitten. When theres a huge backlog its better to take the easy ones to rehome. This girl could sit in rescue years waiting for a new home. The RSPCA should blumming well take responsibility but they wont which is incredibly frustrating.
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Is it not the case with the Rspca that any dog that can not be kept by the rehomer is returned to Rspca? Not saying that would be a good solution for this dog but I thought there was a clause in most rehoming agreements that the dog is returned to the rescue.
 
If it’s like their equine rehoming then once the new home has passed all its post rehoming checks after a period of about 6 months then ownership is fully transferred to the ‘adopter’. The RSPCA then consider that they have done their bit and sign the adoption off and there are no more follow ups.

The adopter is free to sell on.
 
Tiddlypom said:
If it’s like their equine rehoming then once the new home has passed all its post rehoming checks after a period of about 6 months then ownership is fully transferred to the ‘adopter’. The RSPCA then consider that they have done their bit and sign the adoption off and there are no more follow ups.

The adopter is free to sell on.
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Thats not been the case with dogs I have had in the past from rescues but in may have changed.
It sounds like there was recently in season female in the house which may have been a factor and a excitable situation with someone arriving and several dogs rushing to the door. Sounds like a highly charged situation where things boiled over. Not sure how anyone that was not there can say for sure what happened. Anyway its just my opinion that people pushing for pts should just remember that things are rarely as clear cut as they seem. I am not saying that pts is wrong but reading between the lines here the dog could simply be overwhelmed by too much going on in the household. Im going to leave it there.
 
I'm so sorry you're in this horrible situation OP.

It's very disappointing you're not getting more support from the RSPCA although not surprised.

I just wanted to say, I would happily take on a dog that had fought in a home. Our last dog was great with dogs out and about but I don't think she'd have tolerated another in her home. I think it's completely different. Our current dog loves other dogs but I'm still extremely careful who she meets out and about. My point being I think all dogs come with some management.

Of course, I say that which is no help because we've got a dog but there might be a home out there.

Thinking of you.
 
Sandstone1 said:
Thats not been the case with dogs I have had in the past from rescues but in may have changed.
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About 15yrs ago it was the case. I was nearly in tears on the phone trying to find a solution for a nice little dog who just couldnt be managed by grandparents n their 80s with failing health. They wouldnt take him back and they offered no practical help or ideas. I was horrified!
 
skinnydipper said:
The other thing some people may be forgetting is that this wasn't a fight, it was an atta
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Tiddlypom said:
I’d rather not encounter such a dog with a bite history like that out and about when walking my on lead JRT, say on a narrow path.

So far the attacks have been within the household, which does sound to be pretty chaotic. Who is to know whether they could later escalate to dogs met outside of the home?

I’m in the PTS camp.
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Only this week (post incident) we were approached by a high velocity off-lead JRT on our walk. My husband had to pick up our hostile but harmless Cavachon, who was growling and gnashing, lest she provoke it, but the Presa just sniffed noses and we went on our way.

This is what's so heartbreaking. She has been friendly with everything we have ever met out and about. It is the 'victim' who I would expect to be reactive on a narrow path.
 
scruffyponies said:
Only this week (post incident) we were approached by a high velocity off-lead JRT on our walk. My husband had to pick up our hostile but harmless Cavachon, who was growling and gnashing, lest she provoke it, but the Presa just sniffed noses and we went on our way.

This is what's so heartbreaking. She has been friendly with everything we have ever met out and about. It is the 'victim' who I would expect to be reactive on a narrow path.
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There have been 4 incidents at home, one more severe than the others. 3 involved the older dog and 1 the younger dog.

What were the circumstances?
What were the other dogs doing, what was their demeanour, could you see anything about their behaviour which could have triggered her to attack, were they over excited and hyper or calm?
Was she calm before the attacks or was she over excited?
Is her aggression triggered by the vibes the other dog is giving off?
Is there a pattern?

Are they all bitches? I know the thread title says same sex aggression but if they are all bitches and no dogs then by default it will be same sex aggression.
 
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CorvusCorax said:
I'm just sitting here in a room full of very experienced dog people with large working breeds and none of us would say that there's anything to be done with females fighting in the household except for to separate them. It's very hard to come back from, after the first time.
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The trick is to not let it happen in the first place. The people *have* to be in charge and stamp on the 1st smallest sign of the possibility of aggression.

I'm sorry you are struggling with this, OP. Is it not possible to keep the protagonists separate at home, at least until you can find a new suitable home, without rushing?
 
It’s pretty impossible in a house with lots of people (which, as ‘family’ have a say in the matter I’m assuming there are).
You only need one slip of concentration and you’ve got a mess. These are such big dogs, separating a serious fight will not be for the faint hearted.
 
I think if SP manages to find someone willing to take this dog on, then she needs to give them as much information as she can about possible triggers for the behaviour.
 
I'm so sorry you're in this position Scruffyponies. It must be devastating. :(
I really hope you manage to find an answer. If it were me, for what its worth I think I'd have to pts because I just couldnt bear anything else happening. The guilt if this happened again would be a huge thing to have to deal with.
 
skinnydipper said:
There have been 4 incidents at home, one more severe than the others. 3 involved the older dog and 1 the younger dog.

What were the circumstances?
What were the other dogs doing, what was their demeanour, could you see anything about their behaviour which could have triggered her to attack, were they over excited and hyper or calm?
Was she calm before the attacks or was she over excited?
Is her aggression triggered by the vibes the other dog is giving off?
Is there a pattern?

Are they all bitches? I know the thread title says same sex aggression but if they are all bitches and no dogs then by default it will be same sex aggression.
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Thanks for this SK. This helps me to rationally deconstruct. They are all bitches. The two involved are neutered. Newest (10mth, involved) isn't yet.

What were the circumstances?
When puppy (7mth), we think small spaniel found a rat, raising excitement and triggering bite/shake redirection onto spaniel. She did attempt stalking of spaniel for a short while after this, which was prevented and behaviour ceased.
Previous adult incident, something happened during heavy play, either older dog corrected or someone got accidentally hurt, difficult to say. Both dogs set to but broke off after 30 seconds with no significant injury.
New dog introduced 5-6 weeks ago. Large breed F, gentle. The two who fought share an office with me during the day and a bed at night. Presa has accepted and adores new dog.
This incident. I returned to house after a week away. Dogs haven't had usual exercise and obviously very excited. Dogs rushed through to back porch unsupervised. As I opened door, fight kicked off. Couldn't see who started it. New joined in. Presume resource ownership and heightened state were the cause.
Second incident within a couple hours. 100% my fault for not immediately separating as soon as there had been a problem. Both dogs still upset and tense. I would say that the victim was trying to have quiet time and the Presa approached, dominant posture.

What were the other dogs doing, what was their demeanour, could you see anything about their behaviour which could have triggered her to attack, were they over excited and hyper or calm?
Very excited

Was she calm before the attacks or was she over excited?
Over-stimulated on each occasion, either by an exciting situation, or still highly stressed from event and people reaction to it in follow up.

Is her aggression triggered by the vibes the other dog is giving off?
Very possibly. 'Victim' is known for her ability to cause a visiting dog to drop and roll at 10ft with a look we can't even see. Presa is usually deferential to her, but we have reached the point where 'Victim' is larger but no longer stronger.

Is there a pattern?
OK, this is hypothecating a little but... I can make sense to an extent if I consider Presa in heightened state acted to enforce higher status over a resource. This would align with juvenile incident with the spaniel. We have made it clear that the little dogs are untouchable for resources (sofa, food, affection etc) and this has not been an ongoing issue. Obviously neither little spaniel has tried to 'challenge' this, but there is no tension when small is given something right under the nose of large. One of them actively steals the Presa's bone from between her paws regularly just to be an a$$hole. They play together sweetly.
In the latest incident I was the resource when I came home. Victim was seeking peace behind my chair after dinner and it's possible that Presa, still being aroused and having 'won' sought to enforce the victory.
 
I’m no behaviour expert but I only have a settled pack of Labradors and they are never left with any resources. And stealing of them from each other if one finds one is an absolute no no.
As for the door… like you say an incident that was bound to happen.
Good luck whatever you decide.
 
scruffyponies said:
Thanks for this SK. This helps me to rationally deconstruct. They are all bitches. The two involved are neutered. Newest (10mth, involved) isn't yet.

What were the circumstances?
When puppy (7mth), we think small spaniel found a rat, raising excitement and triggering bite/shake redirection onto spaniel. She did attempt stalking of spaniel for a short while after this, which was prevented and behaviour ceased.
Previous adult incident, something happened during heavy play, either older dog corrected or someone got accidentally hurt, difficult to say. Both dogs set to but broke off after 30 seconds with no significant injury.
New dog introduced 5-6 weeks ago. Large breed F, gentle. The two who fought share an office with me during the day and a bed at night. Presa has accepted and adores new dog.
This incident. I returned to house after a week away. Dogs haven't had usual exercise and obviously very excited. Dogs rushed through to back porch unsupervised. As I opened door, fight kicked off. Couldn't see who started it. New joined in. Presume resource ownership and heightened state were the cause.
Second incident within a couple hours. 100% my fault for not immediately separating as soon as there had been a problem. Both dogs still upset and tense. I would say that the victim was trying to have quiet time and the Presa approached, dominant posture.

What were the other dogs doing, what was their demeanour, could you see anything about their behaviour which could have triggered her to attack, were they over excited and hyper or calm?
Very excited

Was she calm before the attacks or was she over excited?
Over-stimulated on each occasion, either by an exciting situation, or still highly stressed from event and people reaction to it in follow up.

Is her aggression triggered by the vibes the other dog is giving off?
Very possibly. 'Victim' is known for her ability to cause a visiting dog to drop and roll at 10ft with a look we can't even see. Presa is usually deferential to her, but we have reached the point where 'Victim' is larger but no longer stronger.

Is there a pattern?
OK, this is hypothecating a little but... I can make sense to an extent if I consider Presa in heightened state acted to enforce higher status over a resource. This would align with juvenile incident with the spaniel. We have made it clear that the little dogs are untouchable for resources (sofa, food, affection etc) and this has not been an ongoing issue. Obviously neither little spaniel has tried to 'challenge' this, but there is no tension when small is given something right under the nose of large. One of them actively steals the Presa's bone from between her paws regularly just to be an a$$hole. They play together sweetly.
In the latest incident I was the resource when I came home. Victim was seeking peace behind my chair after dinner and it's possible that Presa, still being aroused and having 'won' sought to enforce the victory.
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This is sad, but however much hypothesising, you couldn’t say the Presa bitch wouldn’t do similar / worse again.
She’s still a formidable creature with history of aggression - I’m not surprised your family need to see the back of her.
I guess you always could move out and take her with you as sole dog? But it’s not reasonable for the other humans and dogs to try and continue current situation, sorry.
 
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