horrific loan - help

DragonSlayer said:
If I was you, I wouldn't be posting pictures on here, I'd be getting on touch with every authority you can, and your solicitor, if your horse is that bad, I'd be taking legal steps to get the person into court, and also to try to get back costs of vets, which you are obviously going to be paying for now...
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agree with the above. Poor you and horse though :(
 
i would go see an equine solicitor and get their opinion on how to proceed with this, loanee and YO need to be taken to task over it but you want to make sure it is done the right way for the best result.
It's not acceptable the way your horse has been treated and i hope something can be done to dissuade these people from doing this to someone elses horse
 
speedycivic said:
. I had the BHS loan agreement.

I sympathise with your situation and that of your Horse. However, the BHS Loan Agreement is purely a sample Agreement, if you read the preamble it quite clearly states that.

The Agreement, that I reiterate is only supposed to be a sample, fails to include clauses that will make it enforceable. One of those Clauses is concerned with Dispute Resolution.

In addition, the Agreement does not include any provision for Indemnity. In other words, a bond, or a way to compensate you for the cost of any expenses that you need to pay as a direct result of the Loanee's failure to perform their obligations for the care of the Horse under Terms of the Contract.

You make mention of the Loanee's parents. Subject to a few complex exceptions that I don't doubt will not concern this situation, the Law of Contract provides that a minor does not have capacity to enter into a legally binding Agreement.

When entering into any form of legally binding Agreement, it is prudent to consult with a Solicitor, especially where the welfare of a Horse and arrangements for it's care are concerned.

We all love our Horses and whilst we will never admit it to others, most people treat their Horses like children and regard them as part of the family. Whilst this is not intended to be directed at you in a derogatory way, I ask the following question in order to stop and make people think about what they are doing, "Why would anyone entrust the care and wellbeing of their child to a complete stranger without the benefit of a properly consituted Agreement that provides for a system of redress in the event that something goes wrong."
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I honestly wonder why people put their horse out on loan unless it is on the same yard and can be monitored closelyl. I know the good loans probably outweigh the bad, but it seems when its bad its dire. My friend loaned to someone who her yard owner insisted was a competent rider (in her late 40s at least) and had loaned before. The horse is a TB and something of a k***head, plus has barely been ridden for years. The loanee was advised he wasn't good in traffic at the best of times. After a week the loanee asked if she could put a martingale on him (never worn one in his life) and my friend said yes but be careful since it will be new for him and assumed that they would fit it loosely etc to start with. On the same day the loanee hacked him alone down a 40mph limit road in the rush-hour (semi-suburban with trading estate at the bottom and downhill, so you can imagine the sort of traffic and the amount over the speed limit) because "he been good when she and a friend rode down it on the previous Sunday afternoon". On the way back something happened (my guess is a car flashed its headlights at them), horse threw his head up, met the martingale, panicked completely, reared vertical and over backwards and legged it loose back home amongst the traffic where the vet had to be called to sort out the injuries. The loanee then decided it was entirely the horse's fault, my friend had misled her and threatened to sue for her own injuries which included a fractured spine (not as serious as it sounds). The loanee had previously loaned, that was true, but an elderly horse which still managed to dump her regularly which doesn't say much about her riding ability, and the YO took her side and so my friend then had to move her injured horse to a new yard at very short notice.
 
cptrayes said:
I am puzzled as to what help you want, and whether it is the right path for you to obtain it by coming on here as a total new poster asking complete strangers for help.

Perhaps if you could explain more clearly what help you need you will get more relevant support.
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Your reply seems a bit harsh, after all most of us are strangers to each other on here and I thought that's what a forum is for, to ask for help and advice!
 
TicTac said:
Your reply seems a bit harsh, after all most of us are strangers to each other on here and I thought that's what a forum is for, to ask for help and advice!
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Agree- In fact the first time i posted and the reason i joined was because i had a problem.
I've also had loans go wrong- good luck on sorting this out. I hope your horse recovers well x
 
Gosh poor horse.

Make her welfare your priority.

By all means seek some legal counsel, but I think you will find this is a very difficult route to go down.

I'm shocked not only at the 'loanee' but a yard full of other people - where is the concern for an animals welfare?

Not acceptable - but sadly seems to be on the increase.

I considered loaning a yougnster out, but I'd rather have him in the field another year - safe.

Good luck and I really hope she makes a full recovery.
 
Forums are a wonderful resource, I have looked after and owned horses for 40 years and have very little formal horses education but have picked things up from lessons,books and life experience. Some of the things I know now I wish someone had told me when I was 20, and if every time someone asks what to a lot of people is a very basic piece of knowledge they are ridiculed how are they to learn.
Riding is one of the few sports that saying that you do not know is looked on as an admission of lunacy, not as a good thing.
My mare recently had her first foal, although I had worked on a stud farm as a teenager and read the books I was able to get working knowledge from posts on message boards.
Unfortuately lots of people mis represent themselves, you can not say they are lieing because I actually think they beleave what they say. I have loaned my ponies out on numerous occasions, you just have to be very wary and make sure their motive rings true. I have only once been really worried and that was with a person I knew well and they thought they knew better and the pony ended up having laminitis.
My ponies are good ones and I always make sure they know I am doing them the favour.
 
Im so sorry to hear this and see your poor lovely horse. How can anybody allow this to happen. I will never understand. I hope she makes a quick full recovery. Enough to put any body off loaning out a horse.
 
TicTac said:
Your reply seems a bit harsh, after all most of us are strangers to each other on here and I thought that's what a forum is for, to ask for help and advice!
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The horse was back in the care of the OP and safe. She did not say what help she needed, she just put the word "help" in the title and then told her story, which as a first time poster was completely indistinguishable from many troll postings that we have had lately. It was completely unclear what help she wanted and I asked for clarification.

I believe that in her situation the advice of people who know the location, the livery stables in question, her, and possibly the loanee are far better placed to offer her advice than a forum where she has no idea which of us post rubbish and which of us post sense. It would be so easy, for example, to get carried away into thinking that going to court would be a great idea, when it is unlikely to cause anything but more expense and more heartache. Likewise there is an awful lot of exclamation going on about two really quite minor wounds (though obviously if the open one is associated with a fracture then this is a lot more serious).

You may think my opinion harsh, that is your prerogative. I stand by it.

OP I hope your horse is OK. I too have had a horse mistreated and had to recover it, so I know how angry you must be.
 
OP - this really is terrible, and how the loanee and the livery yard didnt do anything I'll never understand, as others have said, pursuing this may well cost you quite a lot, however I think writing the letter with the advice that you will be taking action may be the kick up the a*** that she needs. Best of luck and I hope your horse does make a full recovery.

fatpiggy said:
I honestly wonder why people put their horse out on loan unless it is on the same yard and can be monitored closelyl. I know the good loans probably outweigh the bad, but it seems when its bad its dire. My friend loaned to someone who her yard owner insisted was a competent rider (in her late 40s at least) and had loaned before. The horse is a TB and something of a k***head, plus has barely been ridden for years. The loanee was advised he wasn't good in traffic at the best of times. After a week the loanee asked if she could put a martingale on him (never worn one in his life) and my friend said yes but be careful since it will be new for him and assumed that they would fit it loosely etc to start with. On the same day the loanee hacked him alone down a 40mph limit road in the rush-hour (semi-suburban with trading estate at the bottom and downhill, so you can imagine the sort of traffic and the amount over the speed limit) because "he been good when she and a friend rode down it on the previous Sunday afternoon". On the way back something happened (my guess is a car flashed its headlights at them), horse threw his head up, met the martingale, panicked completely, reared vertical and over backwards and legged it loose back home amongst the traffic where the vet had to be called to sort out the injuries. The loanee then decided it was entirely the horse's fault, my friend had misled her and threatened to sue for her own injuries which included a fractured spine (not as serious as it sounds). The loanee had previously loaned, that was true, but an elderly horse which still managed to dump her regularly which doesn't say much about her riding ability, and the YO took her side and so my friend then had to move her injured horse to a new yard at very short notice.
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I think the above is a bit of a sweeping statement, unfortunatley we only ever hear about failed loans, very rarely would anyone post just to say their horse is on loan and its all going swimmingly. I myself have loaned twice both horses brought to my preferred yard, the first i fittened up and paid through the nose to sort his back and teeth out, the owner asked me to buy him from her (I didnt, wasnt the horse for me). The current one has been with me 2 years, and its actually the owner that has been the issue, I've quite literally paid £1000's and nursed her through injury and now have a semi-retired horse on my hands, who I love and cherish so much she's likely to be with me for the rest of her days.

We will all hear of loans go wrong, but I'm certain we all know of very successful loans too

Sorry if this seems like a rant!
 
I loaned out my old boy and it was a disaster, won't bore with the details, but like the OP the reason I joined here was when I got him back and needed a shoulder to cry on and some advice.

On a good note, we loaned our current pony in February and have now been lucky enough to but him.

What I don't understand is the lack of care some of the loan horses go through. All I can say is when we had Levi on loan I treated him like precious glass, am slightly more laid back now he is mine but he is still treated like a king.
 
That is awful, I would be fuming!! Lots of healing vibes for your poor horse :( Some people make me so angry, i have no idea how you could do that to any living thing :( Hope you manage to get your mare better, poor little girl :(
 
I think sometimes people don't worry about the horses they loan as they have'nt had to fork out a large amount of money for them. I've only have had 1 loan horse over 40 years of owning horses and I loved him as my own, the reason I'll never do it again, as when he was really ill and in a lot pain, I wanted to have him pts and the owner disagreed and kept him going for another week and left me paying most of the vet bill.
 
I hope your horse recoveres from this persons neglect.
We have two ponies out on loan and they are both loved and well lookedafter, we do go see them and keep in touch between visits. We are very lucky.
However we once had a girl share our other pony on the yard we were on and it was a nightmare, her mother was a liar and a theif and still has our three yard cats and some of our tack two years later, because i got fed up of her letting our pony out on 8 acres of good grass when we wanted him on restricted grazing as advised by our vet!! She thought she knew better than he did.
 
Poor horse I do hope it recovers
But I ask and don't take it the wrong way but when was the last time you actually see your horse to make sure proper care and stable management was supplied ??
 
My horse had an injury in exactly the same place last year. It looked very similar and was all ozing but he wasn't lame but very sore (tried to boot me even if I looked at it)! I did call the vet to come out the next day as he wasn't lame and she sedated him to clean it properly and he went on a course of anti-biotics. He healed up fine with just a scar and a lump to show for it.

I hope your poor horse recovers well.
 
Sounds very similar to what happened when I put my horse out on loan, even down to the being kept in all the time, long story but I fetched my horse back and the woman that had him now has a criminal record.

OP do you mind pm'ing me the area your in and name of loaner, sounds horribly familiar!
 
Just wanted to thank you for all your positive posts. I was in such a turmoil and mess and it still is a bit. We still don't know if horse will be ok. I have tried to engage uninsured losses solicitor. What incenses me is the girls complete lack of care or concern. She totally ignores any communication. I'd like to name and shame them, mostly so other unsuspecting parties don't fall prey to her. I am disgusted and sickened. I think I may still try small claims as even if I get no money she will hopefully have a county court judgement against her. It is just so wrong, there seems to be no justice
 
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