horrors - drugs for sale on internet!!

cptrayes

cptrayes

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I have just bought some stuff off an American website that I know is what I need and has been used before for my horse and is less than one quarter the price of the same product from my vet. So far so good.

Then I spotted that the website has an antibiotic for sale - Abfloxin™ - 10% w/w enrofloxacin

I keep antibiotics in stock because I have a horse with a tie-back who needs treating quickly if he gets a badly snotty nose, which he does more often than other horses because of the tieback.

But I never buy anything without research. To my horror, when I researched this stuff I found it was what is used in this country as Baytril. My vet restricts the use of Baytril to situations where other antibiotics have failed. On top of this, after only 21 days use, much less in younger horses, it produces lesions in cartilage and it can cause angular limb deformities in the foetuses of pregnant mares.

What is this stuff doing being sold like this? I know this site is well known for supplying the drug that I have bought and it will be tempting for people to get some antibiotics in stock when they see it as "recommended for use in equines". Please don't buy it!
 
This falls under POM rules in this country so would be illegal as far as I can see - but as it's from a US site I don't what the regs are on the antibiotic sales.

I would also encourage you not to buy this, as treatment with this drug maybe inappropriate for some conditions and we usually do reserve it for second or even third line treatment choice to minimise development of resistance.

Equally as there is now a licensed fluoroquinolone (ab in the same family) where as enrofloxacin (baytril) is not licensed for use the horse, we are bound by the cascade to choose the licensed product first.

Antibiotics should not be kept on the yard for "just in case" scenarios. The horse should be seen if you feel AB's are necessary (I understand the OP's situation....) so you shouldn't want to be buying this anyway!:)
 
Unfortunately it's illegal to sell to the UK but not to buy it Imogen. The product I do buy is available over the counter in the US but not in the UK. This antibiotic is clearly not safe to use for ordinary purposes and will ruin the "reserved" status of the drug if it becomes widely used and we'll end up with MRSA in horses (if we haven't already?). I'm still astonished it's on open sale when it's got such side effects.

ps I'm a horse owner with over 90 "horse years" experience and my vet trusts me to know the difference between a snotty nose, an infected snotty nose and an infection that needs more looking at than I can give it. My horses are peformance horses in daily serious work and a bigger problem would show pretty quickly in lack of performance. They've known me for 20 years now, so they trust me to know what I'm doing. Imogen's right though, you should call a vet unless you have the same sort of experience and relationship.
 
CPTrayes-it is actually an offence to purchase licenced drugs and to be in possesion of them unless they are prescribed by a vet or you hold a prescription.This is an area the VMD (veterinary medicines directorate) are cracking down on. They say that if they close down websites illegally selling these products, they are prepared to use customer address details to "speak to" those purchasers. They will also be prepared to contact/visit people if information is passed on to them (say via vets knowing that their clients are buying medications without a prescription) . So not just an offence for the sellers.

Very hard to enforce/police though with the internet today.
 
Imogen, I'm interested that you say Baytril is not licensed for use on the horse as my vets (a large and well respected equine practice) have prescribed it on at least two occasions for my horses, once following an episode of peritonitis, and again for another of my horses who nearly ripped his hoof off in a field injury.

I am also rather concerned, cptrayes, about the side effect of leisons in the cartilage as the first horse was on it for at least two weeks, possibly more.
 
soloequestrian said:
They don't seem to have the same concern over resistance issues in the US though - they also have a very popular DAILY dewormer.............
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Really....what's in it???

LizzyLou said:
Imogen, I'm interested that you say Baytril is not licensed for use on the horse as my vets (a large and well respected equine practice) have prescribed it on at least two occasions for my horses, once following an episode of peritonitis, and again for another of my horses who nearly ripped his hoof off in a field injury.
Click to expand...

Ok it is not licensed but until literally the last month or so it was the only oral veterinary licensed fluoroquinolone suitable for the horse....and as such in accordance to the cascade as there was no licensed product at the time it was the recommend and legal choice! It has been used extensively safely in the horse so there is a lot of data on it, just not the paperwork.
Now Marbekan is licensed for the horse specifically we would have to use this first to stay legal, unless we can prove good reason not to - e.g. the bacteria are resistant to marbofloxacin but not enrofloxacin!

I have also used it extensively, but we are switching to marbeken now as first choice in the same situation.

I am also rather concerned, cptrayes, about the side effect of leisons in the cartilage as the first horse was on it for at least two weeks, possibly more.
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Hang on here. The side effect tooth enamel discolouration are recognised side effects in FOALS when enrofloxacin given to the PREGNANT MARE at a certain time during her pregnancy; and youngstock are at low risk of cartilage damage so it is best avoided then too unless necessary. Don't panic in adults as the cartilage formation is complete - so no issue.

It is a great drug and don't be afraid of it...it just shouldn't be used willy nilly. This is a direct quote from the data sheet:
"...Fluoroquinolones should be reserved for the treatment of clinical conditions which have responded poorly to other classes of antimicrobials. Wherever possible fluoroquinolones should only be used based on susceptibility testing.
Use of the product deviating from the instructions given on the SPC may increase the prevalence of bacteria resistant to the fluoroquinolones and may decrease the effectiveness of treatment with other quinolones due to the potential for cross resistance."
 
Imogen the wormer is Strongid P. I have a friend who uses it because the supplier then covers emergency colic surgery if required. I think it's a NUTS idea to worm daily, personally.

Lizzylou the research I found into adult horses had them massively overdosed for 21 consecutive days. Your vet won't have prescribed a dose that high even if they were on it that long.

I have a friend whose mare had Baytril for several weeks intravenously while the foetus was around the six month mark (as I recall). The horse has already had the tendons snipped in both stifles due to locking and now appears to be unsound on one stifle with a slightly enlarged joint at five years old. Further investigation will tell but I'm guessing that this horse is a write-off and his mother cost an uninsured £5,500 to keep alive due to a joint infection :(

Smiggy thanks for the update about the law, I was obviously misinformed. It drives me nuts though, when vets put a whopping great markup on a common and pretty much side-effect free drug which is available over the counter on the continent or in the US!!
 
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CPtrayes-cant blame it all on the vets, most cases our hands are tied by regulations. Lots of us Small animal vets have signed a petition and written to our MPs about the stupidity of regulations (originally drafted for food species) that mean we must use expensive "branded" drugs instead of cheaper human versions (like prascend and pergolide issue in horses) that were in use before drug companies branded and licensed the same drug. The only people who profit are the drug companies :mad:
 
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