Horse acting dangerous with me only - advice needed!

My Mare can be a lamb one day and a dragon the next, mum won’t go anywhere near her, so was all left up to me.

Anyway like you say they are bigger and stronger (she lifted a 23stone plus man off the ground when we tried to load her) so strength can’t come into it. I was brought a halter one year for Christmas and have never looked back. I had some lessons with my instructor on the correct way to use it and it has made us a lot safer both on windy days and at shows. I don’t dread putting her out after box rest or bad winters and most of the time I only have to pick it up and show it to her and she thinks twice.

I would definitely recommend have ground work sessions with an instructor and getting some sort of halter before giving up, it does take a little time/work but they quickly learn its nicer to be a lamb than a dragon.

Good luck and hope you manage to sort things out
 
Tinypony said:
Op - I don't think you should do anything other than get some help. In this situation I think it would be dangerous to try to follow advice on handling from an internet forum. You need some experienced back up.
Stick him loose in a round pen and stand in the middle? No way!
Start to threaten and hit him with blue pipe? What might he do back?
Just get some recommended help.
I also think that it's easy for us to get too deeply into analysis and trying to guess the causes for behaviour like this, when honestly, we'll never truly know. Maybe it's to do with pregnancy hormones (although your husband wasn't pregnant was he?). Maybe he's a bit fiesty in the field with other horses, but that never made him dangerous for you to handle before did it? Maybe it's a simple as he was mishandled by someone who was covering for you during your pregnancy. Who the heck knows? Nobody. Sometimes it's just time to stop the soul searching and deal with the horse in front of you.
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And yet again, thank you Tiny Pony for being the voice of reason :)
 
I now seem to have hit another wall......getting a trainer to work with him! Spoken to a couple of them now and they have refused to work with him. I was told by one to seek an animal communicator but to me it seems like a bit of a scam. not sure what to do now :(
 
I now seem to have hit another wall......getting a trainer to work with him! Spoken to a couple of them now and they have refused to work with him. I was told by one to seek an animal communicator but to me it seems like a bit of a scam. not sure what to do now
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As mentioned above, you don't need a trainer, you need a behaviourist. It is their job to work out what's causing problem behaviour and tell you how to deal with it.

The difference between a trainer and a behaviourist is similar to the difference between a teacher and a psychologist - if you have a persistently aggressive child, would you ask a teacher to deal with the problem or a psychologist? Their background and skills are completely different. I would still recommend Suzanne Rogers, although I know she's been on maternity leave - failing that, I would ask Suzanne for recommendations for someone else suitably qualified.

ETA http://www.learningaboutanimals.co.uk/behaviourist.html
 
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Foxhunter49 said:
I agree that this is probably because of the changes both physical and mentally that you were going through and he started to test the boundaries.

I do not care if it is a pain issue the behaviour is downright dangerous.

I would A) Wear gloves
B) Wear a hat
c) Carry a length of blue hose pipe
D) Use a control halter and a long rope.

When he strikes out with his front feet then you whack him across the legs with the hose. If he rears then you whack him across the back legs (attacking his only security)
If he did the same lungeing then he would get the whip across his front legs (if he was coming towards me) or across his backside if he was just not moving forward.

You can look at the 'pain' issue but chances are the only pain there is that he is taking control and being a pain in the arse!

99% of the time horses like this need to realise that if you try to hurt me than I will hurt you more.
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I would go this route as it seems from reading the OP that the horse has become "herd leader" and needs showing where the boundarys are, I know if I let my horses get away with anything naughty then they would soon be telling me what to do
 
Yikes, where to start. Quite a few people have given you good advice. What no one has really mentioned is that you're now a mother of a young one. You will be different from now on. Well especially while child is young. This doesn't mean your not brave or that you won't be able to handle horses competently.

This horse is not being normal. We can all speculate as to why and that's not really going to help you. Dealing with horses like this happens in person. It's not a quick fix. Observation and working with what is in front of you. I could be any one thing, a combination of things, you're pregnancy, or a coincidence of the pregnancy, mineral deficiencies, pain, and on and on.

Don't beat yourself up. Look anyone worth their salt has had that one horse that made them a better horseman. My 6 YO mare whom I bred and raised taught me more than any other horse. She's opinionated and I had to learn to deal with her in a way that's just different. I am, believe it or not, a person she will seek out if things aren't right. A small frantic whinny, pacing, until she sees me. I get her head in my chest. I fix what's wrong. The rest of the time she's solid on the ground, more solid under saddle. But she isn't lovey and it took me a long time and help from hubby to be the leader and also to leave her alone. During these times too diet was changed and as a 2yo she had a course of gastrogard and continues on a stomach buffer. This mare internalized things that had happened to her. No abuse, in case anyone is wondering. But the list of things she did to herself is long and boring. Point being, there was no quick fix. Consistency and respect over a long time as well as dealing with physical issues. She is allowed to be her but yet there are rules to follow. Beating the crap out of her was never going to work. Yes she has gotten an occasional smack on the shoulder. She has needed it. It has not hurt her and she knows she's pushed it. People need to know there is a difference between a well timed open hand smack and beating one.

But again, don't beat yourself up. Any solutions will be long term.

Terri
 
Ok. It was just a thought. Ive had
A couple of horse that when turned out alone have turned extremely bolshy and testing. But as soon as turned out with others reverted to being good as gold. My theory for them was they had no one to test the boundaries with and as its a natural instinct used me instead. As if it was the case it could have been a quick fix I thought it worth asking the question
I think it was Wagtail who has suggested you sell. I strongly agree with this. As heartbreaking as it maybe he is just a horse and as much as we live them, you now know being a mom there are much more important things in life
Again as wt says even if you get through this you will never 100% be able to trust him and it's difficult enough juggling a baby and a horse without having this too
Hugs as whatever you do it won't be easy
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
Yikes, where to start. Quite a few people have given you good advice. What no one has really mentioned is that you're now a mother of a young one. You will be different from now on. Well especially while child is young. This doesn't mean your not brave or that you won't be able to handle horses competently.

Terri
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Terri this has been mentionned by myself and a few other posters. Women change as I said when they have children - it's the natural course of life!
 
soulfull said:
Ok. It was just a thought. Ive had
A couple of horse that when turned out alone have turned extremely bolshy and testing. But as soon as turned out with others reverted to being good as gold. My theory for them was they had no one to test the boundaries with and as its a natural instinct used me instead. As if it was the case it could have been a quick fix I thought it worth asking the question
I think it was Wagtail who has suggested you sell. I strongly agree with this. As heartbreaking as it maybe he is just a horse and as much as we live them, you now know being a mom there are much more important things in life
Again as wt says even if you get through this you will never 100% be able to trust him and it's difficult enough juggling a baby and a horse without having this too
Hugs as whatever you do it won't be easy
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I agree this can be the case - the horse when lacking a herd will treat the human carer as another horse.
 
Ladyinred said:
So you would fight violence with more violence? What happens when you run out of tools and the horse is still bigger and stronger than you are?

Please, OP, do not go this route, you need to rebuild the relationship with your horse, not destroy any last part of it.

I think it is all to do with your hormones, pheromones and your instinctual desire to protect your unborn child. He may actually be frightened that you are not the confident person that you used to be and this, sadly, is how he copes with his fear.

I also think a professional is needed. Someone who will work quietly and calmly with the two of you and not try to escalate the violence and intimidate your horse.
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My answer to this is yes I would let the horse know that I would and would be prepared to give him a dose of his own medicine.

You can go the 'softly softly' route which can take weeks or you can give one short sharp lesson and it is a done deal.

Just for your information I am a professional, I have worked with horses for over 48 years and a heck of the lot of the time dealing with 'problem' animals.

I have the patience of Job when it is necessary but when a horse is being lain dangerous then that is another matter and I will deal with it as and when.

Ever been bullied? If you have then you know how terrible it can make you feel and this is what this horse is doing to his owner. If you stand up to a bully then they usually turn out to be the biggest cowards of them all. No different with horses.
 
Foxhunter, nothing wrong with a softly, softly approach - nor a firm one. However violence is never the answer. And if you are as experienced as you say I'm amazed that a life with horses hasn't taught you that.
 
Does anyone know if Jason Webb does visits to your own yard or do you have to go to him? I've looked at his website and it seems that he takes your horse for training....?
 
amymay said:
Foxhunter, nothing wrong with a softly, softly approach - nor a firm one. However violence is never the answer. And if you are as experienced as you say I'm amazed that a life with horses hasn't taught you that.
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Here here. The great horsemen and women always advise to 'ignore the bad behaviour' and 'reward the good', because that works and consistency like that builds trust between you. An aggressive horse is screaming at you to do something, whether that be it's in pain or it needs mental reassurance and confidence from you. The exact reason I cannot guess, but there will be a reason of that I am certain in a flight animal.
Imagine a horse that has suffered abuse at the hands of another (like mine had) and if I had gone in there and attacked him back for going for me I would simply have been reinforcing the fact that 'humans are the root of all evil to him'. Quite rightly so too. You don't hit an abused child. You give it strong and clear boundries and if the child is just a testing one the same as a horse with no manners then teach them through example and consistency.
It's a no brainer!
 
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give him a call I'm sure he would try and help you his a lovely bloke and I'm sure if you aren't a too far from him he would come out however his yard is seriously nice and if he wanted to have him there for ease, I wouldn't discount it!
 
it sounds like he had excess energy at the start so you got all the bad behaviour.
He has improved with work and handling from the yard so is behaving but now remembers what he was able to get away with so it now dominating you and thinking he is boss!
 
amymay said:
Foxhunter, nothing wrong with a softly, softly approach - nor a firm one. However violence is never the answer. And if you are as experienced as you say I'm amazed that a life with horses hasn't taught you that.
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I am not saying that you beat the horse - all I am saying is that one good whack across the front leg if he strikes out makes him think twice about doing it again.
Again a whack across the back legs when they are rearing frightens them into not doing it again.

A well timed whack providing that it is earned, saves a lot of angst.

If a horse like this reared up at the dominant mare she would do far worse than a human could with one whack and it has the same effect. It makes them think about doing it again.
 
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