Horse always on high alert

[soloequestrian]

My KWPN is always on at least amber alert when I handle or ride her. For ages I've just accepted that this is her character and that clearly I'm a rubbish rider to not be able to 'ride through' it but now I'm questioning this. I've always had sports horses - mainly TB but also currently a TBxHannovarian - and they've all been able to relax and go forward. This is the main issue with the KWPN - she is almost constantly spooking at something which means we rarely go forward in a relaxed way. She doesn't do anything particularly daft, just banana shaped and very focussed 'looking' but it makes schooling really difficult and hacking hard work. I'm experimenting with magnesium in her diet at the moment - I think it's helping but I got a bit down when she was back to full spooky mode today.... there is a lot of noise from building work nearby though so perhaps it was that and she was actually better than she would have been normally, not really sure.
Anyway, I wondered if anyone else has successfully chilled out a horse like this? I can't really make her lifestyle any more chilled - she lives out 24/7 with her pals, miniscule hard feed just to give her minerals, lightly ridden most days. I'm as sure as I can be that there are no physical issues, it's just her hyper alert brain that needs to calm down...

 

[deicinmerlyn]

I found a Gut balancer helped my boy. If his gut is settled so is his brain! I manage him as ulcer prone and since I’ve made changes to his diet with the addition of pre/probiotics he is much better.

 

[Nasicus]

Assuming the horse is pain free, happy and healthy, then I guess some horses are just wired that way. Makes sense really, they're prey animals evolved with keen senses to spot danger before it gets too close so that they can run away. It's a testament to the centuries of domestication that as a species they are, for the most part, pretty steady and able to focus on what they're being asked to do. Of course, you'll always get the odd ones that are wired differently, be it as a complete deadhead that wouldn't notice a snarling, hungry lion stood two feet from it, or a hyper alert sort that can see danger from a mile away (regardless of whether it's actually there or not!).
That's not to say we can't try to teach them otherwise, and I'm sure someone with experience of this will be along soon to provide help, but I just wanted to point out that there's no point in feeling down about it, or beating yourself up over it, it's nothing you've done or are doing, sometimes nature just be that way and it can take a lot of time and effort to overcome that

 

[soloequestrian]

I found a Gut balancer helped my boy. If his gut is settled so is his brain! I manage him as ulcer prone and since I’ve made changes to his diet with the addition of pre/probiotics he is much better.

Thanks - what do you use?

 

[Regandal]

Thanks - what do you use?

I use Coopers Gut Support, made a big difference to my horse.

 

[onemoretime]

If the gut support doesn't help try Cal Mag from Natural Horse Supplies. I give this to my mare and she is far more calm and relaxed.

 

[Pearlsacarolsinger]

If there is any possibility of alfalfa being a constituent of her 'meagre hard feed' I would swap it to something without that ingredient. I would also be suspicious of soya.

 

[I'm Dun]

has the horse been tested for type 2 PSSM? Thats a very common thing for them to do.

 

[sportsmansB]

I don't want to sound like a typical irish person here, but I'm about to..
But have you tried not 'light riding' - i.e. really getting on, taking charge, making her go forward the whole time and really tiring her out each time and seeing what shes like at the end of a week of that? Dont give her the option of looking sideways at anything, just forward forward forward lots of exercises to keep the brain engaged and stop it wandering?
If physical issues are ruled out, of course..
Some just look for mischief when they aren't being challenged enough at their job, or look for danger when they don't feel secure enough, like the smart but naughty kids at school

 

[soloequestrian]

She doesn't get any alfalfa.
I do wonder about the light riding thing, but at the moment I feel like to get her forward I have to ride in a way that feels really rough and then she gets upset at me as well as whatever she is looking at. I can't get her to not look sideways without kicking and pulling and smacking and that doesn't help anything. I know that sounds very novicey - I'm not really! It's not that she can't go forward - she will give lovely steps sometimes but then she sees something else and puts the breaks on/bananas. Out hacking she is forward but in a sort of mini-zig-zag where she looks at a bush on the left, on the right, on the left... endlessly. I keep coming back to none of my other horses ever having been this bad - some would have days when I couldn't get a tune out of them but they were infrequent, not every time. She reminds me of an autistic child - she just doesn't seem to have the ability (or desire) to stop observing every last small detail of her environment.
Magnesium has definitely had an effect so I'll keep trying that and the gut balancer is really interesting because I could feed it too. I'm hoping someone who feeds high levels of magnesium might come along to comment!

 

[Lady Jane]

I'd try a gut balancer, I found this works: https://www.maxgut-health.co.uk/.
Most reviews have been from people who had anxious/spooky horses where all other health issues had been ruled out.

 

[paddy555]

can you provide a bit more background. How old is she, how long have you had her, has she always been on amber/high alert, was she in her previous home if she had one, is the high alert getting worse.
I don't think riding her harder is the answer, I doubt she wants to be on high alert it is very stressful for her but she probably has no choice.

If you long rein her where you hack her what happens, if you ride and she gets on high alert (the highest level) then if you get off and start doing groundwork exercises ie couple of steps back, couple forward, turns, does she calm down, does she put her head down and appear less stressed and go into perfectly calm with head hanging/rope in loops or even just going simple groundwork is she still on high alert.
When she was back to full spooky mode today had she been out overnight, had it rained?

 

[NightStock]

My KWPN is retired now but was always very sensitive and often spooky. I found if she was genuinely upset about something I could feel her heart pounding and she would spin when I first got her, I would ask her to stand quietly until she was ready to pass and the spinning stopped. I also led her out in hand regularly and she improved as she felt more confident in me.

If she was just a bit 'up', I would ask her to concentrate on something else and leg yield was very useful when out and about, she was always better being asked to think about something other than what she was obsessing about. She did enjoy a long rein stretch and I would do this regularly (when safe).

Magnesium did seem to help, she also had regular physio and vet checks whenever needed but she is still the same now at 26yrs old in that she will stop eating to stare at something in the distance and I have to tap her neck to bring her back to the bucket!

Good luck, hopefully you just have a sensitive but sweet and talented little mare like mine, not always the easiest but when they are good they are amazing!

 

[soloequestrian]

Thanks everyone, the thread is making me think more and especially about her good points which sometimes get forgotten when I feel like there is no progress.
History: this is my 'horse of a lifetime' I hope. All my previous horses have come with lots of baggage from other homes, this one I've had since she was 6 months old so I've been able to manage and train her how I want. Probably that's what makes things feel even more frustrating - my other horse is much more tricky on paper but actually easier to ride because he pays attention to me rather than his surroundings. She's the opposite - she's very trainable but almost forgets I'm there a lot of the time. I've taken things very slowly (some might say ridiculously slowly) - she is 8 now and really only just starting 'proper' work. Partly that's because she's big and has huge paces so I wanted to let everything mature but also because I'm not the bravest rider.... although that's tied up with the spookiness a bit, I'm much braver on the non-spooky one! If I could just chill her out a little I think she would be amazing.
I don't think she has got worse over time, I think it's just become more obvious now I'm wanting more accuracy and responsiveness. When we were just learning to trot for instance it didn't really matter where in the school we did it, but now when I'd like to trot a 20m circle or just around the edge of the school all the spooky points mean that we can't do that smoothly. Today we did a lot of walk, stopping and taking a few rein back steps at the spookiest parts, then having a pause to try and make those bits of the school nicer. She will usually have a proper pause - head stretched down - but once we move off she goes straight back into the spook - maybe just a little bend away from the edge of the school. Same on both reins and it's always worse in trot. If I just use the part of the school where she is relaxed we end up in a small area in the middle and can't actually do much. She's the same in the stable - she is happy to come in but then stands to attention at the door - I can't think of her ever actually relaxing when she is being groomed. If anything she seems to get slightly more relaxed once her tack is on and she prefers me on her back to leading.
Any further suggestions gratefully received!

 

[GrassChop]

Has she had her eyes checked? Might be worth checking ovaries too. Is it worse when she is in season or is it always the same? What are her droppings like? How does she hold her weight?
Might just be a process of elimination before finding the cause or if it is just her, some can really lack concentration but it's worth ruling out anything physical too.

 

[PinkvSantaboots]

I have 2 very spooky Arabs they get distracted really easily I find the more I vary there schooling and make things challenging the better they are, I tend to do a leg yield or even just a half halt and tap of my leg can sometimes be enough to distract them from spooky things.

They tend to spook at the corner where the chairs and jumps are, the trees along one side move in the wind, horses in neighbouring fields, cyclists on the path next to the school peacocks sitting on the fence running through the school the list goes on.

Walking and doing rein back would be far too easy and boring for mine and that's when they are more likely to spook, I just keep everything a bit busy and keep them going forward, I will often avoid a spooky bit for a while then just slowly ride closer and closer once they are a bit more settled, I find using my voice can actually help just a click or a few words as I approach a scary bit.

But I very much use what I call tactical riding it's just trying to be a step ahead of them and trying to prevent the spooks and silly moments, I have started using acoustic ears and I think they definitely help mine they both have magnesium, they don't have any feed that can hot them up either.

Do have lessons on her? A lot of what I do was what I have got from various instructors over the years.

 

[Green Bean]

My mare is quite anxious (and in turn can spook or be hyper-alert). I have her on eCalm. This is a non-magnesium wheat germ supplement which also works on the gut (as others have said above). She is the same horse on it, but doesn't overeact to things she would normally have found to be scary. I cannot recommend it highly enough. It has helped with the following:

• Loading onto my trailer - without it, she is anxious, takes ages to load and is sweating by the time we reach our destination, with it, she takes a couple of goes to lead her up the ramp then is okay - I don't believe her anxiety will ever disappear, but she is better equipped to travel
• Schooling - better able to relax and mostly concentrate on the job at hand, again she isn't chill, but certainly a different horse
• Hacking - she doesn't hack on her own, but is a bit more relaxed about the world around her.

Agree about alfalfa - wish I had known about the effect this has on some horses.
Magnesium - haven't found a useful effect on my past two horses (but that doesn't make for a scientific conclusion), it should be noted that some feeds contain magnesium, so best to check your feed.
As for riding a horse into the ground - this isn't going to help either of you, but that is my personal opinion. Building a relationship is far more important and taking account of your horse's peculiarties and working with them is far more sustainable.

 

[Sprat]

Mine can be like this when she is out somewhere new or at competitions. I'm beginning to do a lot more groundwork with her to try and encourage relaxation from the ground which I then hope to replicate into the ridden work. Doing a lot of desensitisation stuff with her as well (which quite frankly I should have done years ago but you live and learn).

It might be worth having a think about?

 

[soloequestrian]

She has always been a nice weight - very little variation across the year. Droppings are good. I used to think it was connected to seasons but it was never predictable enough for that - actually doesn't vary all that much, she just spends most of the time being hyper-aware of the environment.
I will bear eyes in mind, though it doesn't present as a visual issue - she doesn't suddenly react to things, she just doesn't habituate easily. I've done loads of groundwork with her and it's fine as long as there is nothing scary going on, same as the ridden. If you actually present her with something new she is usually pretty calm, it's the unknown monsters that lurk outside the school and underneath trees that bother her e.g. I often use white containers as markers in the school which she is quite happy with. Yesterday they were lined up next to the school and we had to spook at them for about the first 10mins of the session.
I'm definitely interested in the gut type calmers mentioned, I just wish there was only one so the decision about which to get was easier!

 

[soloequestrian]

Although the reviews of eCalm do look very good!

 

[paddy555]

I'm definitely interested in the gut type calmers mentioned, I just wish there was only one so the decision about which to get was easier!

this one. If this doesn't work the problem may lie elsewhere. My horse has the equishure part of this and has for years. It is just about the only way to get forward round a ride without lots of spooking.

You can buy equishure on it's own (from saracen) but the rite trac covers all areas and would be a good first choice.


https://saracenhorsefeeds.com/sports/product/rite-trac

 

[hock]

My KWPN is always on at least amber alert when I handle or ride her. For ages I've just accepted that this is her character and that clearly I'm a rubbish rider to not be able to 'ride through' it but now I'm questioning this. I've always had sports horses - mainly TB but also currently a TBxHannovarian - and they've all been able to relax and go forward. This is the main issue with the KWPN - she is almost constantly spooking at something which means we rarely go forward in a relaxed way. She doesn't do anything particularly daft, just banana shaped and very focussed 'looking' but it makes schooling really difficult and hacking hard work. I'm experimenting with magnesium in her diet at the moment - I think it's helping but I got a bit down when she was back to full spooky mode today.... there is a lot of noise from building work nearby though so perhaps it was that and she was actually better than she would have been normally, not really sure.
Anyway, I wondered if anyone else has successfully chilled out a horse like this? I can't really make her lifestyle any more chilled - she lives out 24/7 with her pals, miniscule hard feed just to give her minerals, lightly ridden most days. I'm as sure as I can be that there are no physical issues, it's just her hyper alert brain that needs to calm down...

So could be one of the following or a million others reasons (aren’t horse great ??)

Grass effected
Pain
Lacking routine
Separation anxiety
Hormone problems (scan her?)
Soundness etc

Is she relaxed in her field or is she the alpha? Is she really attached to another horse? What’s she like with gelding? Are her seasons regular? How much sugar is in her diet? Does she have lick it’s etc? Worse in summer or winter? Day or night?

 

[soloequestrian]

Easiest to do this one as a list:
Grass effected - don't think so, no different in the winter when she is on haylage
Pain - fairly certain not
Lacking routine - definitely not, I am too routine based rather than the opposite!
Separation anxiety - only if I were to take her uncle away (retired companion) - she will leave him happily. Also the school is in the field where they are most of the time so she can see them while working anyway.
Hormone problems (scan her?) - possibly but see above
Soundness etc

Is she relaxed in her field or is she the alpha? - not alpha but yes relaxed. She does play a lot.
Is she really attached to another horse? Yes but as above she will leave him quite happily, she just gets upset if he leaves her.
What’s she like with gelding? Fine
Are her seasons regular? Difficult to say, they're not that obvious
How much sugar is in her diet? Grass fed but little other - no sugary treats except carrot sticks
Worse in summer or winter? Day or night? No

 

[soloequestrian]

You can buy equishure on it's own (from saracen) but the rite trac covers all areas and would be a good first choice.

https://saracenhorsefeeds.com/sports/product/rite-trac

It looks very interesting but is that over £100 for 25 days or are my sums wrong??

 

[hock]

Do you feed her before riding I don’t mean a huge meal but half a scoop of something so there’s something in her belly?

 

[GrassChop]

What exactly do you feed? My mare went loopy on cereal straw. Sometimes carrots and apples can be too much sugar for them too.

 

[Regandal]

I had to cut out all sugar from my horses diet, apples, carrots etc. He gets the occasional sugar-free polo.

 

[paddy555]

It looks very interesting but is that over £100 for 25 days or are my sums wrong??

I expect your sums are right. Yes it is expensive but if anything is going to work in that area this is well worth a try.

what happens if someone else rides her? can you find a very experienced person, the sort who just sits there and falls asleep. Is she still in a state of high alert?
what happens if you ride out on a hack behind a calm quiet horse that is going to take on all the worry about spookys?
Will she just plod along behind on a loose rein or is she still on high alert.

if she is in the stable and you groom/massage her does she become happy and relaxed if you persevere or are there just "no go" areas? what about from the middle/back of the saddle area backwards? any reactions? massaging inside her hind legs, her belly? anything obvious.
Presumably you know how she is bred, how are the rest of her family? are they known for being very spooky

 

[soloequestrian]

Had a lesson today and she was great. I could tell just leading her in that she was much more chilled so perhaps I'm just being a bit too impatient for the magnesium to kick in. The lesson was mainly in walk, all about her and my posture and she was really thinking about it and pretty much ignoring the surroundings (other than wanting ear scratches from my lovely instructor). I will get her a gut supplement along the ulcer lines that I can feed alongside the additional Mg. I'll see how that goes and then if things aren't getting better I'll revisit this thread for all the other helpful ideas. Thank you all for your input so far!

 

[hock]

What a great update!