Horse anticipates feed as soon as comes in stable

[Welshboy]

My horse (a gentle chap) is incredibly impatient each time he comes into his stable - he anticipates his bucket feed and he wants it now!

I try not to give it to him immediately each time he comes in. So, I pick out feet, change rug, possibly give a quick brush while he eats his hay. I can do this in or out of the stable. But once he's in the stable and I walk away his naughty behaviour starts - he almost trots around the box and runs back into the far wall with the occasional hump/kick out. Then he walks towards the door and plunges hard at that and heads off again in a circle. Once he's had his dinner his gentleness is restored and he relaxes and tucks into his hay net. (When he's eating he's a saint and is never aggressive towards people).

I know this is a total 'trigger' type response. He's brought in and he knows his dinner will becoming. (Incidentally, his dinner is high fibre, low starch/sugar and has no treats such as apples/carrots. He has his bucket feed to carry his supplements/salt/linseed).

One option to avoid this, is to put his bucket in the stable so it's there when he comes in - there would then be no nonsense. But, this I feel, reinforces his mental need for the feed and it means that I could never bring him in during the day for vet/trimmer/riding and put him in the stable without his feed. Also means that should anyone on the yard have to bring him in for whatever reason he'll be anticipating a feed that might not be in there, which could result in all sorts of bad behaviour and him possibly attempting to jump out of his stable (?).

Would you give in to the situation and just always have the feed in the stable and make sure everyone knows of his demands! Or, would you try and deflect the trigger response by adjusting the routine in some way - altho I'm not sure how this could be done.

Anyone else experience similar behaviour?

 

[sjb10]

Not me personally, but two horses on our yard had been used to having their feed already in the stable when brought in and it did cause problems if the YO had to bring them in. They adapted reasonably well to a bit of a delay and were easier to deal with. From that aspect I think the way you are doing it is probably better than having it ready for him as he walks in. other than ignoring him, not sure what you could do to improve his behaviour. Mine pick at beds/haynet until their tea arrives, but if he only has a bucket feed to give him supplements, you probably don't want to give him even a small bit of hay in a small-holed net!

 

[Gentle_Warrior]

Always horse in stable before feed in stable. I learnt this with my gentle soul. Resulted in a black eye. When he swung his head and put me into a wall in excitement of feed in stable before him.

Especially applicable if others brining in etc.

 

[Welshboy]

Hi both - I'll ditch the idea of feed in stable in that case! Yes, he does always have hay available - he picks at that while I'm doing his feet/rug but they hay doesn't stop his anxiety for the bucket feed.

However, when I get there to turn out I the morning I don't feed him, just take him some fresh hay and he's as good as gold. So, it's totally the trigger response of being brought in.

Any other ideas on how I can break the habit ?

 

[Gentle_Warrior]

Mine is needy before he gets his dinner. I just ignore him! !! Lol. Does him good to wait. Normally while I decide to be bothered to ride or not.!! He has no hay either to placate him until after diner.

 

[be positive]

I stopped feeding mine at one time when they came in, they had their evening feed at late check, if you are on a yard this will not be possible, it stopped all the silliness and anticipation as some were having to work and seemed to be more interested in getting inside for tea.
I think if he were mine I would feed in the morning if he only gets a small amount either before he goes out if there is time or if he is alone give it in the field and leave him to it, then maybe give him an evening feed in a treatball so it is not so easily available and requires some effort on his behalf.

 

[Welshboy]

Mine is needy before he gets his dinner. I just ignore him! !! Lol. Does him good to wait. Normally while I decide to be bothered to ride or not.!! He has no hay either to placate him until after diner.

I'd like to ignore him, but I think he might cause some damage to the stable and himself ! He gets quite cross!

 

[Welshboy]

I stopped feeding mine at one time when they came in, they had their evening feed at late check, if you are on a yard this will not be possible, it stopped all the silliness and anticipation as some were having to work and seemed to be more interested in getting inside for tea.
I think if he were mine I would feed in the morning if he only gets a small amount either before he goes out if there is time or if he is alone give it in the field and leave him to it, then maybe give him an evening feed in a treatball so it is not so easily available and requires some effort on his behalf.

I like this idea - but can't do it as I'm on a yard and it'd be too disruptive. I can't feed in field at moment as he shares but I think at some point that would be a good idea! I avoid breakfast as I don't want him having any strops before I arrive on the yard - our mornings are quite relaxed. I'll give the treat ball some thought - might be a good distraction (I do have an old one that I used years ago - different pony). Would you put treat ball in ready or after he's in the stable ?

 

[EQUIDAE]

I always feed before turnout so they don't get into the habit of expecting it when they come in. Plus it is quicker to bring in, ride then feed and out out, than bring in, feed, wait an hour, ride, then turn out. In winter when they are on two feeds a day they get their 2nd feed in the field (they're out 24/7).

 

[Welshboy]

I always feed before turnout so they don't get into the habit of expecting it when they come in. Plus it is quicker to bring in, ride then feed and out out, than bring in, feed, wait an hour, ride, then turn out. In winter when they are on two feeds a day they get their 2nd feed in the field (they're out 24/7).

Thanks - I never have this problem when he's out 24/7 as life isn't quite so predictable, but for 5 months of winter he comes in at night .. And it's this that creates his expectations as I can't vary things so much. But yes you're right - this approach does work through the other 7 months - I avoid him having a strict routine!

 

[Tobiano]

oh bless you and your boy! I have something a BIT similar - my darling saintly cob never has a cross word to say except when he thinks he should be being fed OR turned out (or sometimes when he finds himself on his own in the field). He is so wonderfully kind and gentle 99% of the time but on these occasions you get the snaking neck, ears pinned, head shaken up and down and pawing.

I have tried to influence him very progressively, just asking for seconds of patience to start with, building up to minutes. Even so, I do find that I sometimes have to skulk around the yard so he doesn't see me until I am ready to turn him out or feed him - that works to some extent, as long as he does not see my dog!!

 

[alainax]

Could you make him focus for a bit? So bring him in, tie him up outside for rug changes, feet done etc. Then do some very basic work with him. For example stretches, backing up, yielding, circles, trot up. Nothing fancy, just engaging his brain so he doesn't get completely focused on the feed. Then potentially feed him outside the stable, and each day change the location of that feed.

That way he will not predict the feed being in the stable, the timing of when we will get it by not knowing when in the routine you will feed. He might then realise that he has to pay attention and not be naughty before he gets the feed. Gradually get the feed back into the stable, and lessen the amount of "work".

 

[Welshboy]

oh bless you and your boy! I have something a BIT similar - my darling saintly cob never has a cross word to say except when he thinks he should be being fed OR turned out (or sometimes when he finds himself on his own in the field). He is so wonderfully kind and gentle 99% of the time but on these occasions you get the snaking neck, ears pinned, head shaken up and down and pawing.

I have tried to influence him very progressively, just asking for seconds of patience to start with, building up to minutes. Even so, I do find that I sometimes have to skulk around the yard so he doesn't see me until I am ready to turn him out or feed him - that works to some extent, as long as he does not see my dog!!

Oh this is quite similar! My boy is a very gentle, mannerly HW cob. He's extremely loyal to me I feel and in fairness, rarely puts a foot wrong. But, he's a dominant creature in the field - likes to be first at the gate and he clock watches waiting for my car! I always do things like make up feed before he's in so he can't watch/hear me !

 

[Welshboy]

Alainax - I sort of try to do this, by picking out feet, grooming, doing rugs, a bit of sweeping etc. He has a haynet while this is going on that he half heartedly picks at while the remainder of his attention is watching me.. Soon as I walk away the naughty behaviour starts.

I think you're right tho, I need to get rid of the triggers - maybe put him in the stable and then take him out for a lunge. Maybe I could hide the feed in different places so it's less predictable and maybe as you say feed him sometimes out of the stable and sometimes in it.. Think I need to almost create a bit of confusion about it all.....

 

[Dubsie]

Can you just not feed him yourself, but enlist others at the yard to feed him once you have walked out of sight *and* he has stopped kicking/charging about?

 

[hobo]

I always have the feed in the stable before horse as she is very food protective but she walks in calmly turns around and quietly goes to feed. Like you though called feed it is just balancer, supplements and alfa. They are brought in and have a hay net outside while I do feet, rugs ect. If you never take bucket in while they are inside they do not expect it and if it is not there as long as she has a hay net though puzzled she just goes to that.

 

[Starzaan]

I have always had feed in stable before horse. Even when I had a livery yard, all my liveries were in the same routine.

In my opinion their stables are their 'bedrooms' so I never faff about with him in his box. When he goes into his box he's going to bed, or is in for the farrier etc so having 'quiet' time in his bedroom. I tie up outside to groom, tack up, change rugs etc. and have never had a problem with any horse becoming silly or aggressive about feed.

I learned this trick when working on a very large yard. Feeds were made up and put into boxes as they were mucked out. Which meant that when horses came in in the evening there was never that awful door kicking, box walking or impatient whinnying while those already in waited for others to come in, and then waited while feeds were made.

I can take my horses head collar off on the other side of the yard, and he'll just quietly stroll into his box.

Not possible for everyone, but works for me. If someone else is bringing in I just make sure I've left the feed in there in the morning. And when he comes in for the farrier or vet I split the feed so there is some when he comes in. Even just a handful or a couple of carrots.

 

[Pearlsasinger]

I have always had feed in stable before horse. Even when I had a livery yard, all my liveries were in the same routine.

.

Thank goodness for someone speaking a bit of sense! I was beginning to think I am the only one who puts the feed bucket in before the horse comes in. Why on earth do people feel a need to exercise "power" over their horses all the time? Most unfair imo.
I can and do bring them in a various times to just hay but usually, if they are coming in about 7 for the night, their tea is waiting for them and they are left alone to get on with it. I don't tie up to do things with them but they are all used to standing still, either eating hay or waiting quietly, if the hay is finished, while rugs, grooming, tack, whatever is done quietly and without fuss.

I should add here that all my horses are well-mannered and do as they are asked. For goodness sake, people, set your horses up to succeed, rather than constantly setting them up for an argument.

 

[Starzaan]

Thank goodness for someone speaking a bit of sense! I was beginning to think I am the only one who puts the feed bucket in before the horse comes in. Why on earth do people feel a need to exercise "power" over their horses all the time? Most unfair imo.
I can and do bring them in a various times to just hay but usually, if they are coming in about 7 for the night, their tea is waiting for them and they are left alone to get on with it. I don't tie up to do things with them but they are all used to standing still, either eating hay or waiting quietly, if the hay is finished, while rugs, grooming, tack, whatever is done quietly and without fuss.

I should add here that all my horses are well-mannered and do as they are asked. For goodness sake, people, set your horses up to succeed, rather than constantly setting them up for an argument.

I agree entirely. So many people used to comment on how well mannered Roy was, and seemed to put it down to his age and the fact that he spent his youth as a top competition horse. Now they seem shocked that my 6yr old is equally well mannered. It makes me so cross when people allow their horses to walk all over them. Well mannered horses are happy horses with happy owners who are in harmony, not knocking skulls all the time!

 

[Merrymoles]

The two I look after only have their feeds already in their stables when they come in if I know neither of us is riding that evening. Therefore sometimes they come in to feeds but more often they don't as neither of us wants to hang around before riding. However, they always come in to haynets and are happy enough with that.

In your case OP I would probably leave a virtually empty bucket (one chopped carrot or a handful of chaff) for him as he comes in as he is obviously winding himself up wanting his tea. In time, you may find he becomes less anxious about waiting for his "bucket feed". You can then do whatever you want to do after a couple of minutes and then give him his proper feed when you have finished.

The other question is whether he is coming in very hungry, in which case wanting his bucket feed may be a sign that he wants to fill his belly pronto, rather than picking at a haynet.

 

[LCH611]

I agree with pearlsasinger! Mine all have feeds ready in their stables when they come in - I like to leave the yard in the mornings all ready to do in case I can enlist someone to bring in for me (I prefer them to be in before dark, but I don't finish work in time) and regardless of who is doing them it is much easier to bring in 5 at a time if they all know there is feed waiting as they troop into their own stables and then it is just a question of doubling back to remove headcollars & close doors. None of them are remotely rude about food and are well used to being handled whilst eating. None of them need tying up to be groomed/tacked up/clipped or have manes pulled. If I know they are going to come in earlier than tea time I don't have feeds waiting. Mine all get forage-based feeds so I have no issue with riding as soon as they have finished.

 

[skint1]

I agree with pearlsasinger! Mine all have feeds ready in their stables when they come in - I like to leave the yard in the mornings all ready to do in case I can enlist someone to bring in for me (I prefer them to be in before dark, but I don't finish work in time) and regardless of who is doing them it is much easier to bring in 5 at a time if they all know there is feed waiting as they troop into their own stables and then it is just a question of doubling back to remove headcollars & close doors. None of them are remotely rude about food and are well used to being handled whilst eating. None of them need tying up to be groomed/tacked up/clipped or have manes pulled. If I know they are going to come in earlier than tea time I don't have feeds waiting. Mine all get forage-based feeds so I have no issue with riding as soon as they have finished.

I am the same!

 

[Prince33Sp4rkle]

mine come in at 3.15 (bought in by friend/livery) and get ridden any time between 5 and 8 pm then fed.

2 of those in work get a chaff feed prior to work, 1 doesnt and the other is 99% retired so doesnt get one either.

1 horse has a feed waiting for him when he comes in(as is poor doer so needs a 3rd feed) and is then not ridden until 6.45 approx. none of the other have one waiting as dont need it.

Its not a power trip they just have to bloody learn to stop demanding demanding demanding all the time. They all have plenty of grass, loads of hay to come in to and are not starved. Anything banging or chesting the door gets squirted with water out a bottle.

none of ours create now, they standing quietly munching hay until THEIR feed is put in THEIR stable.

 

[DabDab]

mine come in at 3.15 (bought in by friend/livery) and get ridden any time between 5 and 8 pm then fed.

2 of those in work get a chaff feed prior to work, 1 doesnt and the other is 99% retired so doesnt get one either.

1 horse has a feed waiting for him when he comes in(as is poor doer so needs a 3rd feed) and is then not ridden until 6.45 approx. none of the other have one waiting as dont need it.

Its not a power trip they just have to bloody learn to stop demanding demanding demanding all the time. They all have plenty of grass, loads of hay to come in to and are not starved. Anything banging or chesting the door gets squirted with water out a bottle.

none of ours create now, they standing quietly munching hay until THEIR feed is put in THEIR stable.

This basically.
But if he's an issue in the stable then you could feed him while tied up outside for a bit to help him forget a little about all that silliness and get out of the habit.
There's no reason why you can't put the feed ready waiting in the stable, so long as he's not the type to become bargey when bringing in.

 

[Slightlyconfused]

My lot must be weird then as if I'm in a rush feed is waiting I'm stable, they stay in.outdoor rugs anyway, feet.picked out and off I go. If I'm.riding then.they get fed last thing before I go. Not one of.them.demands or creates. They eat their hay and just aren't bothered until.the.buckets come.round.the corner....then.I.get a. Joint "Will you hurry up woman" from.them

 

[PolarSkye]

I have always had feed in stable before horse. Even when I had a livery yard, all my liveries were in the same routine.

In my opinion their stables are their 'bedrooms' so I never faff about with him in his box. When he goes into his box he's going to bed, or is in for the farrier etc so having 'quiet' time in his bedroom. I tie up outside to groom, tack up, change rugs etc. and have never had a problem with any horse becoming silly or aggressive about feed.

I learned this trick when working on a very large yard. Feeds were made up and put into boxes as they were mucked out. Which meant that when horses came in in the evening there was never that awful door kicking, box walking or impatient whinnying while those already in waited for others to come in, and then waited while feeds were made.

I can take my horses head collar off on the other side of the yard, and he'll just quietly stroll into his box.

Not possible for everyone, but works for me. If someone else is bringing in I just make sure I've left the feed in there in the morning. And when he comes in for the farrier or vet I split the feed so there is some when he comes in. Even just a handful or a couple of carrots.

This. Every word of it.

P

 

[Bryndu]

Hi,
Every time I bring my horses in from the field...there is a feed bowl in there......only a handful of nuts ....not a proper feed....just a treat to come in to....there is always a hay net for munching on.... I want them to feel happy and relaxed in the stable...it is their space.
Some horses will stress....some will not.....I always take the middle ground easy option.....if that makes me a bad person...so be it.....but at least I have happy horses...
I have never had a problem with them then anticipating me going off to get 'feed'.

Good luck
Best wishes
Bryndu

 

[Annagain]

I too put feed in before the horses. Then (rather naughtily) open gate and let them walk into their stables by themselves. They always head for their own stables, because they know they always get feed when they're there.

If I'm riding I just put a handful of dampened grass chaff in there and trick them into thinking they've had something. They then get their proper feed later. As much as they expect feed in the winter, neither of them automatically expects a feed if they go into their stable in the summer. They live out in summer and only come in for the farrier etc.

One kicks the walls as he's a grumpy old git who doesn't like other horses near him. He's much better now he has the end stable but still does it if a horse walks past his stable, whinnies near him, sighs loudly or even just looks at him funnily. We bought some old EVA matting and attached it to the walls to protect both them and his feet. If he's that bad, this might help deal with the symptom if you can't deal with the cause.

 

[Welshboy]

Lots of replies and ideas. Thank you everyone. What I will say is my boy isn't bargey for a HW cob and he's not aggressive - would be happy for me to pick feet out or whatever when eating if I really wanted too.

Maybe I should just accept its the way it is and put his feed in the stable... But he's a stickler for routine/triggers, so that would mean even if it was 1pm for vet/farrier he'd have to have a bit of feed. Sounds like some of you do this by giving a small portion of chaff or similar. I don't think he'd be bargey coming in knowing he's feed is waiting, as he's just not like that to handle or lead.

His stable is his own space although sometime it's useful to tack up / groom etc in there as its raining outside !

I guess I need to go one way or the other.. Try and train him out if his tight routine or go with him and always ensure there is a bucket of something awaiting his arrival!

 

[Welshboy]

I have always had feed in stable before horse. Even when I had a livery yard, all my liveries were in the same routine.

In my opinion their stables are their 'bedrooms' so I never faff about with him in his box. When he goes into his box he's going to bed, or is in for the farrier etc so having 'quiet' time in his bedroom. I tie up outside to groom, tack up, change rugs etc. and have never had a problem with any horse becoming silly or aggressive about feed.

I learned this trick when working on a very large yard. Feeds were made up and put into boxes as they were mucked out. Which meant that when horses came in in the evening there was never that awful door kicking, box walking or impatient whinnying while those already in waited for others to come in, and then waited while feeds were made.

I can take my horses head collar off on the other side of the yard, and he'll just quietly stroll into his box.

Not possible for everyone, but works for me. If someone else is bringing in I just make sure I've left the feed in there in the morning. And when he comes in for the farrier or vet I split the feed so there is some when he comes in. Even just a handful or a couple of carrots.

Starzan - I can totally see where you're coming from. But, I do think that once my boy had found feed in his stable for a few days running he'd expect it every time he arrived in his stable.. He became like this a little last winter - it's a bit of a nuisance if you just want him to wait for vet/farrier, to be clipped etc.. But, like others have said I could just give him a token bit of chaff or just scoop a bit out of his evening feed. H