Horse attacks rider having just bucked them off

pennyturner said:
Agreed. The only similar thing I've seen was a Brumby who'd been injured several times by men attempting to break him the 'Outback' way, and had learned attack as the best form of defence.
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When horses go along this path, the result can be pretty scary. The worst case of "attack as defence" that I encountered was a smallish pony gelding who would look as if butter wouldn't melt in his mouth (in the innocent sense) but if you got too close, or pressured him by standing at the loosebox door, would launch his teeth at you as fast as I have seen any horse move. (His nickname at the place I saw him was Alien, poor thing!) I can only guess at how he came to be this way. After a few weeks of patient handling, his trust in people improved a lot and we were able to do all the standard stuff with him. At that point, he was deemed safe enough to go to someone who had the necessary confidence and sensitivity, although I didn't consider him rehabilitated as in 'returned to normal'. It was entirely possible that old habits could re-emerge suddenly at any point if he was inadvertently stressed.
 
rowan666 said:
This is an interesting subject, maybe horse was concerned for rider and was trying to get her up? i collapsed in my field once and thank god my friend got to me just as my very inquisitive anglo was about to start pawing at me! Obv that wasnt aggressive hes a major mummys boy and just wanted to see what i was doing on the floor/was i hiding any treats! So maybe the horse in question was jst playing/curious/concerned for rider? Do we have any behaviour experts on here? Ide be very intrested to hear others opinions on this subject
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A horse that died on our yard, when on the ground, the others in the field were pawing at him and standing on him trying to get him up.
 
cptrayaccident95 said:
Surely not, PR? In decades of horse ownership in yards with up to sixty horses on them I have never seen a horse drop its rider and then attack them, never mind move away a considerable distance and then return to attack them. In my experience it's not common behaviour at all.
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Horses often attack someone on the ground, obviously to turn around and come back means they are really pissed off with the person. I saw someone bucked off and kicked the other week, while they lay on the floor, that's an attack. Horses don't randomly kick out, they aim and are accurate. The Brannaman one is extreme, but he blames the person, she was a walking car crash. People need to learn to keep horses out of their space, barging, running over, striking, all these things, occasionally are done out of fear, but mostly it's horses putting someone in the place the horse feels where they should be. Horses aren't stupid and don't do things by accident.
 
PR, I mostly agree with what you wrote, but would say that sometimes horse kicks are random manifestations of excitement rather than deliberate strikes.

On one of only two occasions where I have ever been kicked by an adult horse, I was laying down some extra straw in the loosebox of a mare who was agitated by the fact that another mare had recently foaled next door, and maybe wanted to get to the foal herself. She was neighing and circling, and I - foolishly in retrospect - was messing about with straw behind her when she kicked out and got me on the side of my knee (fortunately only bruising it). I have no doubt in my mind this was because I simply happened to be there, and not because the mare felt any fear or enmity towards me.
 
It sounds to me as if the horse was broncing wildly about and may have bronced over her in his panic rather than an attack as such. That's one possibility anyway.

ps. I see other posters have said the same (slapped wrist for not reading the thread first), how can a horse flee from something tied around it?
 
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Thanks for everyone who contributed to this thread. I really appreciate the views and advice of what I guess is a very wide spread of horse owners. A fantastic way to get a different perspective on a situation I'm very close to. I'm still digesting all of the information!
 
A very experienced rider I knew told me about a horse he'd seen chuck the rider off and come back round and jump all over him - the rider had been beating the horse moments before so I think we can safely see it as a revenge attack. There was a mare in the field with my horse which was intelligent (Welsh) and could be very bolshy. I know you can't argue with a mare, mine always had the last word too, but I really didn't trust this animal and I've been around horses the best part of 40 years. The owner couldn't catch it and asked me to help so I did the usual trick of keeping it moving in the field with a quiet lunge whip and alternating big and sideways approach body language. Something that has worked every time for me before. It deliberately hid amongst the other horses to keep me at a greater distance which I thought was pretty smart and then without warning came at me at speed with teeth and hooves in a very deliberate attempt to intimidate me. I defended myself with the lunge whip but made a tactical exit and left it to cool down a bit. I did go back a while later, carried on as before as I believe in once you have started you must finish the job and I did catch her and immediately rewarded her with a polo and praise, but I have never met a horse like that before or since. I believe she came from a sanctuary though and did seem to have hormone issues.
 
I thought that when they kicked out when you fall off its normally to make sure they have rid themselves of the rider due to the discomfort a shrieking gripping falling rider produces. And because its part of their flight apparatus. But I'v never heard of a horse coming back to finish the job off, and to me that smacks of a horse being dominant over a human.
 
I'm learning all sorts! The horse that bucked my friend off is at the bottom of the pecking order. (she gave him a polo when she caught him!) He is very gentle and loving, until he gets startled then anything could happen. Once having had a saddle on about 20 times on this occasion he reacted with a bucking fit, dragged her over, ran up and down the field, then over a 5 bar gate, then down the road. The police were called as the horse ended up a mile away in someone's drive standing in 4 pools of blood where his feet had worn away on the road.
 
Henry-etta said:
I'm learning all sorts! The horse that bucked my friend off is at the bottom of the pecking order. (she gave him a polo when she caught him!) He is very gentle and loving, until he gets startled then anything could happen. Once having had a saddle on about 20 times on this occasion he reacted with a bucking fit, dragged her over, ran up and down the field, then over a 5 bar gate, then down the road. The police were called as the horse ended up a mile away in someone's drive standing in 4 pools of blood where his feet had worn away on the road.
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Really, a horse's hooves worn down to the blood vessels by one mile on the road? You'll have to try harder than that here.
 
I am wondering if the horse was bucking to get the rider off or because of saddle/girth with the broncing? Is the horse a bit girthy or objects in some way when groomed round it's sides? If the rider was the problem for the horse I don't think there would have been broncing after the rider came off, run off yes perhaps. Just speculating.
All attacks/attempted attacks on humans I have heard of were with the front end, lunging with teeth as fburton desribes in that story.
Horses do kick but I think they often kick as a defense.

As this is a young horse I think looking at tack, training and possibly gut issues are things to consider. I don't go with the thinking that where the horse is in a pecking order is a factor but he may be insecure with ridden work or uncomfortable and held himself until he couldn't anymore = explosion.
 
fatpiggy said:
Really, a horse's hooves worn down to the blood vessels by one mile on the road? You'll have to try harder than that here.
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Yes, really the horses feet were bleeding so much that you could see it pooling under his feet! He must have gone hell for leather. It was at the heels where he'd worn through to the soft tissue. Can any farrier corroborate this?
 
Pale Rider said:
Horses often attack someone on the ground,
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I'm sorry PR I just don't think this is true. Often, to me, is something you can expect to see on a regular basis. If it was happening often, then it would not generate pages of ooh-err-crikey comment every time a thread about it is posted, and there would not be posters like me with decades around horses who have never seen a horse do it except on YouTube.
 
Auslander said:
You WHAT????
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This really did happen. The same horse that bucked off and trampled my friend. The vet said to bathe his feet, and hope for the best. He was turned away for 6 months, his feet are fine now! He has a small splint from the incident, that's all. Actually, he was much better with the saddle after it!!
 
I was going to say not to judge the horse for a one-off incident, but it appears not to be so one-off any more. I know what I'd do if it were mine - if it has previously reacted like that, then your friend is not only endangering herself but everyone around her. This is not normal behaviour for a horse.
 
I'm confused. Your opening post says that this happened with a friends recently backed youngster, yet you say above that before that incident, he did it, ran off down the road and was given 6 months off. So did the incident in the opening post happen recently, after that time off? Because if it did, you say above that he is better with the saddle after the time off...so I'm just wondering, if the saddle was the issue before the time off, but not the issue after the time off...what other possible issues do you think he has?

Also, what has the horses management been like? Is your friend experienced in backing and starting youngsters? Did she have professional help, get his teeth done well in advance of being bitted, have a check over etc?

It just all seems a bit like an amateur playing and a horse ending up in the firing line for human error. Sorry if that offends, but horses aren't born this way and unless there is an underlying health issue, then I would say that the horse is behaving as he is as a result of how he's been handled. I strongly advise your friend to get a professional in to assess the horse.
 
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Any horse, which having unseated its rider, and then turns on them, should be shot without a second's thought. Any animal of mine which behaved in such a fashion, would be unlikely to get back to the yard, alive.

Alec.
 
I don't understand this post at all really? Maybe I'm just tired from constant revision!

If the horse attacks a rider put it down is all id say to you.
 
Thanks for your reply GG. She's broken in more than 10 horses, who have turned out fine.
What has been interesting in the posts is that no one seems to have had personal experience of the behaviour my friends horse has exhibited. Alarm bells are really ringing to be honest.
This horse took 6 months to catch and halter, he has had 4 years of slow, consistent, thoughtful interactions with people. gaining his trust was a lengthy process. Getting him to a position where he would accept a saddle took maybe a year? It was May 2012 when he ran down the road, then had 6 months off. This one was sent away to Mickey Gavin for some professional help, to get him over his flight issues, who sat on him but went no further. His bucking fit probably around Christmas 2013.
Yes to dentist, her brother is a vet.
 
Henry-etta said:
Thanks for your reply GG. She's broken in more than 10 horses, who have turned out fine.
What has been interesting in the posts is that no one seems to have had personal experience of the behaviour my friends horse has exhibited. Alarm bells are really ringing to be honest.
This horse took 6 months to catch and halter, he has had 4 years of slow, consistent, thoughtful interactions with people. gaining his trust was a lengthy process. Getting him to a position where he would accept a saddle took maybe a year? It was May 2012 when he ran down the road, then had 6 months off. This one was sent away to Mickey Gavin for some professional help, to get him over his flight issues, who sat on him but went no further. His bucking fit probably around Christmas 2013.
Yes to dentist, her brother is a vet.
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If a professional won't ride him on...he needs to be put to sleep. Whatever happens, please tell your friend not to pass the horse on to anyone else. This is NOT the type of horse that should end up on the open market or inexperienced hands.

I really don't see any other option as if he is that unhappy a horse, then I don't think it is fair to subject him to more stress and anxiety when there seems such little chance, after 4 years of trying, to rehab him. It's a difficult call to make, but it's the responsible call IMO.
 
A number of years ago I worked for a dealer. We had a lovely Connie x come in for sale. He was lovely. He had wedge shoes on his hinds but we didn't think much of it at the time!!! Anyway I hacked him out, schooled him a bit and he was lovely. We had someone come to see him who hacked him then asked if she could do some schooling. Everything seemed fine until he bucked her off and then proceeded to stand there lashing out at her. Never ever had done anything remotely like this before. Fortunately her mum grabbed her off the floor and out the way. After this we sent the horse back to where he came from only to receive a phone call a few days later to say he had been pts as his tendon had slipped off his hock, or that's what we were told anyway. Hence the wedges on hinds and looking back I wonder whether doing that amount of work when he was tried caused him pain and that was why he lashed out. Poor horse. I have never seen anything like it since thank goodness and don't want to see it again.
 
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