Horse backing livery not going well!

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loverly

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Short background...
I bought a mare in September who I was told was broken and safe. Not your typical TB mare.
In the first 10 days she bronked out of the arena and bucked me off as soon as I got in the saddle. I spent 2 months doing a lot of ground work with her then admitted that I couldn't take her any further as I was scared to get on her - but laid across her fine.

The mare went to a recommended person to be backed 2 weeks ago but they have asked to sedate her before getting on her today as they haven't been able to get on her without bucking previously. Mares been thoroughly checked over.

So here's by dilemma, I cannot afford to keep paying for breaking livery for much longer. I also can't afford a horse as a pet as she's on livery. Old owner is still proclaiming its out if her nature and she can't believe she's doing this even know I've sent her photo and video evidence.

I've found a small yard to rent cheaply which is in a beautiful area so I can keep her but I've been completely lied to by her previous owner. The lady whose backing will back me if I want to go the legal route and so will my YM.

So what would you recommend me doing?
 
Was she vetted? its just that this may be hard to follow up if not (and indeed even if it was). Is the person a private buyer? less come back. Keep copies of all your correspondence showing there was a a problem BUT if this has been at least 3 months and you still have the mare, think you will have a real problem. I would get legal advice but its never easy trying to prove this.
 
How was she when you tried her out, and anything show up at the vetting.

Personally I'd be getting a pretty hefty veterinary work up done on her, and am amazed that the person backing her is continuing to try under these circumstances.

Please stop all work on the horse until she's had the workup.

EDT:

Reading your previous thread on here it would appear that she's not had a veterinary work up - and has had two accidents (one coming out of the menage, one going over when rearing).

Dangerous animal by the sounds of it. Please get your vet involved, and for the safety of all stop working her.
 
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amymay said:
Please stop all work on the horse until she's had the workup.

EDT: Please get your vet involved, and for the safety of all stop working her.
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Seconded. Also don't forget the possibility of gastric ulcers or other hindgut upset.
I would move her home too. Wanting to sedate a horse to back it is very questionable imo for all sorts of reasons.
 
Reading further back again, OP, I see the 'accident' you posted about was on 16th Oct, and was pretty catastrophic actually.

Has she been x-rayed around the chest and back area?
 
The accident happened on the 15th September. She had an equine Mctimoney sessions, dentist and vet who gave her the all clear to start work.

I very foolishly took the owner by face value. The mare was priced a bit high for a TB but under £1000.

I have questioned a problem that causes the bucking but not one professional has picked anything up.

I have all messages from the old owner, including a message saying she'd take her back once she gets the money together.
 
As others have said you need to stop with her now. Sedating a horse that obviously has some issue will not help.

If the poster above is correct, then you actually haven't had her thoroughly checked out. No point in starting a thread saying you have if you haven't. That's not to say it might not have been found but with the way she is acting its not normal at all.

And just a little word of caution about the fact that ALL sellers lie. When I first took my mare to jumper training she walked into her stable, turned around, and started weaving! Like totally back and forth like a nutjob. I'm standing there like every bad seller out there saying, well she's never done that before. And I'll be honest it changed my opinion a little from being so black and white. My mare stopped in 5 mins and never did it again but I was mortified.

Look you just have to be honest with you and her. Maybe the winter off and a proper lameness exam should be your starting point. I have limited funds too but I can't put a time limit on what a horse needs. She seems to have fallen over and this with the bucking really says this mare is trying to tell you something.

I'm not trying to be hard on you or snarky but instead of focusing your time and energy on blaming the former owners, you need to take the responsibility for this mare and do what's right. Maybe they did lie, maybe they didn't. But at this stage it really doesn't matter as you didn't buy her last week.

Terri
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
I'm not trying to be hard on you or snarky but instead of focusing your time and energy on blaming the former owners, you need to take the responsibility for this mare and do what's right. Maybe they did lie, maybe they didn't. But at this stage it really doesn't matter as you didn't buy her last week.
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This is a really important point and I agree 100%. You need to focus on this horse. :)
 
Well, you have a couple of options.

Take the seller to court for miss selling the horse.

Get the horse thoroughly investigated to include x-rays of the back and rib areas specifically.

I'm assuming no vetting, as the question hasn't been answered, and that you did not try the horse out - as you've not answered that either. In which case you may have a problem going through the courts.

As above, my advice would be to bring the horse home and stop all work on her until the x-rays have been done. (Personally I'd also be including a full lameness workup too).

If nothing is found and the horse is pronounced fit - I would think very carefully about how you proceed.

The trainer the horse is with now sounds appalling (sedating a horse to get on it???), and I would be looking for referrals for good trainers in the area from a couple of posters on here - but in particular HenryHorn who lives in your area and knows everyone....

If, even with the most sympathetic trainer, the horse proves unbreakable then obviously you can't sell her on. And your choices would be keep her as a field ornament or put her down.

Sounds all pretty awful, tbh :o

Edt: Absolutely agree about focusing on the horse, and not the sellers. That's done and dusted now.
 
I would echo the advice to get a full and thorough veterinary work-up done on the mare - xrays and scans if neccessary (I'd be tempted to get a bone scan if you can through your insurance) she sounds like a danger to herself and her rider and I'd be very tempted to PTS if nothing treatable is found... Sorry to be blunt but realistically you are unlikely to get much enjoyment out of a field ornament if you really want a riding horse...
 
You have to stop.....before somebody gets hurt.
The mare has a serious problem, be it physical (which in all honesty it sounds like) or mental. But until those problems are addressed you are throwing good money after bad, and risking the serious likelyhood of someone being hurt of worse.
Her back really ought to be xrayed, and I would be leaving well alone until this is done.
 
Sorry amymay, I must have missed the post, but your assumption is right.

Im not blaming the old owner but I was honest with my abilities (and age) and would have assumed the same back. But it is what it is.

The lady the horse is with came suggested by 3 people on here who PM'd me.

The contract for the breakers having her is up on Tuesday so shell be coming back and spending the winter off with a full lameness checkup.
 
loverly said:
SThe contract for the breakers having her is up on Tuesday so shell be coming back and spending the winter off with a full lameness checkup.
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Please don't let them do any more to the horse.

Bring her home at the weekend, book the vets, and go from there.

Good luck.
 
Equilibrium Ireland said:
And just a little word of caution about the fact that ALL sellers lie. When I first took my mare to jumper training she walked into her stable, turned around, and started weaving! Like totally back and forth like a nutjob. I'm standing there like every bad seller out there saying, well she's never done that before. And I'll be honest it changed my opinion a little from being so black and white. My mare stopped in 5 mins and never did it again but I was mortified.

Terri
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Terri - your mare clearly was clever girl and didn't want to leave you :D Edited to say - sorry misread thought you were selling her.


I had a similar expereience with a pony whom I was selling as a safe 2nd pony. A young girl tried him in the manege and he promptly bronced across it like a rodeo horse nearly coming through the fence. I was aghast! I later learned that the child had 'clamped' onto him like a limpet when he spooked hence the broncing.
 
loverly said:
The contract for the breakers having her is up on Tuesday so shell be coming back and spending the winter off with a full lameness checkup.
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Good luck and as has been said don't take any risks. The winter off will give you time to get to know her in a different way and get her really confident with you. x
 
If the old owner will take her back I would personally offer them the horse at a reduced price and cut your losses. Vet checks are going to cost you money you don't have and may leave you no further ahead than you are now

Either the seller lied or they know a way to cope with the horse - either way I'd send it back

You could go down the legal route but you will still need to keep paying out for livery/rent in the meantime and for the price you paid I don't think it's worth it
 
It's all rather academic now, but just wondered if the previous owner showed you any evidence that the mare had been backed and was going 'well' under saddle at the time you purchased the horse? Photos? Video/s? Just wondering why, if the mare was supposedly backed and being ridden away when you purchased her, you didn't see her ridden and/or have a try on her youself? Was there a reason why you couldn't? And if so, I'd DOUBLY have wanted a vetting performed.
 
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Well if I was teh seller I certainly would not be buying the horse back. As was asked, was the horses vetted. this sounds to me like a horse in serious pain. and sedating to get on is abject stupidity, i would remove that horse from that breaking yard immediately. They are causing more damage than you already have, if not physical then definitely mental. I would be looking at a back work up, checking for kissing spines, also i would check out the saddle throughly, who fitted it? Did you not try the horse when you bought her? Was she ok then? You have no recourse to the seller as it was 3 months ago you bought the horse, plenty of time to send it back. But now it is not reasonable and as a seller I would not want a horse back that had been treated in this way.
 
I'm honestly not sure turnout over the winter will make much difference if she is in pain or has had a really nasty previous experience which effects her mentally. A whole winter of hay, wormers, trimming, etc. will still cost you a good amount of cash and you'll still be in the same place in the spring.
Either go down the detailed vet investigation route - which will absolutely not be cheap or find a way to move her on in a sensitive way, give her back to the seller for free - if she was under £1,000 then you have not really lost much (compared to what vet investigations would cost you just to find out what is wrong!), consider the blood bank or ultimately PTS.
If I had taken a gamble on an just broken horse for less than £1000 which I didn't vet and didn't try myself I would have been prepared to loose all of that money when it didn't work out - sorry if that's not what you want to hear.
 
Yas, I'm so glad I wasn't selling her! I would have sounded very dodgy indeed! But you know it was one of those life lessons. Everything isn't always as black and white as we'd like to think.

I sent her away for 2 reasons. One because I'm not the best in the ring and I she was more talented than me thank dog. And two because I was starting to fall into that nobody can take care of one as good as me trap. She is my baby and I thought it best she have a different view of the world beyond my rose colored glasses. I broke her myself. Now that I did it, I won't send one away again. I'm happy to pay for rides at shows and at home but while I'm not the best, I'm happy (as I think the horses are) with how I do things. As far as selling I think she'd come back rather quickly. She's a madam and she's all mine! Easy to deal with if you know her and 100% under saddle but well she's weird.

Sorry for hijacking OP!

Terri
 
Polos Mum, I was under the impression Op was going to go down the investigation route. I assumed the turnout meant, no work, not just chucked in a field and left.
 
Polos Mum said:
I'm honestly not sure turnout over the winter will make much difference if she is in pain or has had a really nasty previous experience which effects her mentally. A whole winter of hay, wormers, trimming, etc. will still cost you a good amount of cash and you'll still be in the same place in the spring.
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I agree get the veterinary workups done prior to turning away.


Either go down the detailed vet investigation route - which will absolutely not be cheap or find a way to move her on in a sensitive way, give her back to the seller for free - if she was under £1,000 then you have not really lost much (compared to what vet investigations would cost you just to find out what is wrong!), consider the blood bank or ultimately PTS.
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How is giving her back to the original seller (not that she'd probably take her) moving her on 'sensitively'? Surely that's just setting up the mare to be re-sold (with problems) or end up at a market (again with problems).

I don't think the blood bank takes mares.
 
Amandap - hope so just query whether OP would appreciate the cost of a detailed lameness work up and possibly full back/ chest xrays (following the nasty accident the mare had) if the OP had limited funds which had been spent on backing livery and she'd not spent £250 on a vetting at the time of purchase.
The vet route will only (hopefully) give the OP a good idea about what is wrong, there may well still be a long way to go to fix the problem
It sounded like the OP was looking for a safe starter horse to have some fun with (apologies if I missunderstood the OP) not a major rehab job with possibly intensive vet intervention!
 
Amymay - thanks for info on blood bank - unfortunately I was struggling to think of 'sensitive' alternatives to PTS (which is what I would seriously consider in this instance based on the info we've been given) as I know lots of people think this is an extreme solution rather than the ultimately kindest one.
 
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