Horse becoming a field bully......Ideas???

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Allykat

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I know this possibly isn't the right place for this but more people are in here and I need some friendly advice
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sorry its long
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My 17 year old cob gelding, Jester, has been in charge of the herd at my yard for the last 11 years. This is usually managed with no fuss and no injuries, he is the boss and everyone else respects that. Last summer there were a couple of kick injuries (Including my other horse) and although no one saw the culprit it was assumed to be Jester as he was getting possessive over some of the herd including a new mare. This all settled down and they finished the summer out and came in for winter.

The horses have been on restricted grazing over the winter and have been out in small groups for the last month or so. Another new gelding arrived over the winter and Jester seems to have a problem with him, singling him out and not letting him intergrate with the others, yet new horse does nothing to threaten Jester. Now the yard have opened the big summer field and all the horses are out together during the day time. This is where the problem starts. Jester is still in control of "his" herd but he is being aggressive about it. He is also stressing about it and is spending a lot of his time trotting and cantering round the field and separating them all up. He will randomly section one off, not neccessarily one of the newer ones, and push them about before settling for a bit then he moves off to bother someone else. When he is in he is looking and calling to the others and today when leading him to the field he looked just like a stallion
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calling, snorting and prancing all the way to the gate
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So (if your still with me
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) what can I do?? Splitting the field isn't an option. Should I just sit tight and hope they sort themselves out? Is there any supplement that would help?? any ideas??

Well done if you have got this far
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sorry
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Not sure this is any help...had the same problem with mine when he was out in a mixed sex group. Had to separate him and put him in with other geldings only. Yard then ended up having to separate everything into single sex as two of the other geldings were fighting over the fence etc.

No more trouble after separating. Isn't there a geldings field he can go in?
 
I really feel for you as it is such a frustrating problem. My first suggestion would have been to divide the field, but if you can't do that..
Someone like henryhorn who has horses grazing in large groups would be the best person to advise I would say.
Could you horse join a different group, perhaps one with only mares???
Fiona
 
If there are no serious problems ie horses coming in with injuries colic through stress etc I would leave it they will sort out the pecking order eventually. When I got a new horse he was fine initially but then we lost an older horse through colic and my old horse who was pack leader got beaten up by new horse quite badly. As he was 28 at the time and had a heart murmur we split them up although I have never done this before. Peace is restored and all are happy.
 
At the moment they are all out just during the day but this will change to 24/7 within the next couple of weeks. He has a tub of water in the field and stable neither are automatic.
 
I tried to get them all separated last year after my other horse spent the summer in injured, but yard owner will not have it. They have had mixed grazing for 40 years with no problem!!!
 
I have heard of them and I am willing to try anything.

At the moment I am more worried about the fact that it is bothering him and he is stressing
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Ok, obviously I don't know anything about Jester so I want you to think about him as a person and tell me three or four words that describe him and his behaviour. ie bully, stressed, scared etc. KJH
 
ok I'd say: controlling, stressed and nervous.....its quite hard to think in single words


Its like he knows he is the boss of the herd but is worried that he is losing control and so is trying too hard to regain that control....if that makes sense
 
I know trying to get it into single words is hard but bear with me if you can. When you say nervous is it because of fear of lack of confidence. And stressed in what way. KJH
 
Yes I do think he has a fear of lack of confidence. I think he fears he is losing control of his herd and is nervy. I guess maybe that would influence the stress. When he is in he is quite agitated and as he can see the field he is constantly trying to keep watch.

Thank you so much for taking the time to help
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Ok then, going off of the things you have told me I would suggest you buy three flower remedies. You can get them from Holland and Barratt, they cst about £6 each and this is what I think he needs. Larch for his confidence, Vine for his control problem and Aspen for his unknown fear. As for dossage you need to put 4 drops into his water bucket and every time you fill it up put more drops in.

They are natural, not on the banned substance list if you are competing but they contain alcohol so as long as Jester is not allergic to alcohol there should not be a problem. It could take a couple of weeks to sort out the problem but it could be as quick as a couple of days. If you want to know anything more then you can sned me a PM and I will give you my email.
 
Ok I will certainly give that a try. He has one of the big tub trugs of water so would the dosage be the same? is that 4 drops of each or do I mix them together? Sorry
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He is partial to a guinness so alcohol isn't a problem
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Does not matter, the important thing is that he gets to drink the remedy everytime he has a drink from the bucket. Just put 4 drops from each bottle into the water. Good luck, and if you need any more help just get in contact with me.
 
I am currently having similar problem with our gelding, who is pacing the hedgeline all day because he can see the mares in the next field. He also splits the group up and runs them round the field. I have spoken to the people at Dodson and Horrell who make Stroppy Mare and Stroppy Gelding and they say the herbs in the gelding mix help to moderate this kind of behaviour as it calms the mind and reduces sexual urges. I have ordered a tub and hopefully it will arrive early next week. Will let you know how we get on! Hilton herbs were very helpful as well and reccommended their liquid Equilibrium which has Agnes Castus in it.
 
What we find is that in this situation if the grazing is large enough they split into small gangs and the problem disappears.
Ours is a mixed herd with everything bar stallions you can think of, the colts get gelded as yearlings in the autumn and are very much the under dogs to the dominant geldings.
Your horse is scared the new gelding is going to take his place and is showing to the best of ability he is the strongest/fiercest etc, which is what would happen in the wild.
Ideally you would put him on his own with one or more geldings or mares, whatever the mix, it needs to be same sex apart from him .
The trick is if there is enough space they should settle in time, but it isn't ideal, and to be honest if the space isn't enough either he will get hurt or something else will before long.
You may not see what the gelding is doing but he will be needling him believe me!
I would try some herbal supplements and ask your vet, he may prescribe some female hormones for a bit just to temper his urges!
The yard owner would be wise to listen to advice and offer separate paddocks for mares/geldings, if not their fence line will get trashed too. (we've kept the sallion in today or he would be running up and down in a mud path along the fence!
 
Thank you for replying. He does seem to have been a bit better today so it looks a bit more promising that it will sort itself. He was in for part of the morning and was watching the field then we rode and turned out. He trotted off straight into the middle of the others, then singled out the other gelding, pushed him to one side and we left them all eating.

I think part of the trouble is our big summer field is long but quite thin, although management are a bit set in their ways too
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I'll definitely look into something for him supplement wise though for future use.
 
Thank you for that.....I have actually just been looking at the stroppy mare in our local tack shop. They were out of stock of stroppy gelding, so can't just me my horse being a pain then
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We have a large mixed sex herd and have in the past experienced similar issues as the ones your having at the moment, they do usually settle down, it's just horses being horses and establishing a pecking order in their group as they would if they were in the wild. It might be worth trying herbal suppliment or speaking to your vet if the problem persists.
What I will say is that you should think about moving yards if your horse does not settle as it is unfair to expect other liveries and the YO who are presumably happy with the current grazing arrangements change everything to accommodate your horse.
 
Just to clarify that I'm not expecting anything at all to change at my yard.....I've been there over 11 years and nothing has changed in that time so it isn't now. Thats why I am here asking for alternative help
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It is also nice to know that there are other people out there with similar set ups and similar herd leaders
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