Horse being a total pig when asked to work. Any help appreciated

[charlie76]

One of the horses we own has always been challenging but he seems to be getting worse. He is fine when doing things his way ( we usually involves going at his speed) but when asked to listen or try a little harder he chucks in the towel.
Examples of when this happens are:
Canter- he starts off ok and then gets more and more onward, if you ask him to slow down he flings his head in the air. If you correct this he plunges.
Canter to trot transtions- he will run on to his forehand and go bounding off in the trot, if you half halt him he slams the breaks on and rears.
He will also rear when asked to step into the outside rein or fling his head about.
If you tell him off for rearing he starts leaping and plunging across the arena.
He is fine on the lunge, he is fine out hacking.

He has had the following done:
Teeth x 3- 2 x dentist and 1 x vet. He had a wolf teeth removed.
He has had his back, poll, hocks and feet xrayed several times- there is no source of pain.
He has had his back scaned- he is fine.
He has had his saddles checked and spent a lot of money of new ones.
He has an equilbrium massage pad and wears a magnetic pad to bed.
He has been ridden in no end of difffent bits including a hackamore-still the same.

He is totally fine as long as you don't ask him to work a bit harder.

Help

 

[Chloe_GHE]

Hhhhmmmm if he is just beign naughty maybe try distraction techniques, try slipping some schooling in under the radar whilst out hacking or get someone to work in the arena with you to slightly take the focus of rider vs horse.......

Or maybe just hack him on a loose rein for a month then come back to it....if you can afford to take a month out that is

 

[charlie76]

Done the hacking on a loose rein for a month, and turned him away and restarted- nope- still a pig.

He is fine if you school out hacking but there are issues( esp the canter -trot trans) that need to be sorted and he won't allow us to.

 

[Chloe_GHE]

does he do the same stuff on the lunge?....

 

[charlie76]

Nope, he is fine on the lunge as he is doing what he wants to do, he is fine in side reins and the pessoa.

 

[Chloe_GHE]

have you tried a bitless bridle?...

I think if he was mine I would try to keep everything very calm, and slowly work to where I wanted him, then stop, make the schooling sessions v short but sweet, use alot of positive reinforcement with vocal commands, give a quick scratch on the neck when he is being good, and do no more than 10/15mins and try to vary his work load alot so his brain is occupied.

He sounds a bit like Jack like he's got sour and grumpy

maybe even pop a little fence during sessions if that cheers him up as a reward.....

 

[charlie76]

yes, tried a bitless, no difference.

Its weird as he isn't grumpy, he has his ears on and is forward but as soon as you deviate off the line of what he assumes he is doing the paddy sets in.

 

[Tempi]

How old and how big is he?

 

[Chloe_GHE]

hhhhhmmmmmm sounds to me like he can count! Seems like he knows the set schooling plan what he normally does and how long it takes and objects to any alterations.

I would go a completely different tact take him to school and do the most different session you can to your normal routine, lots of changes of direction and pace and keep it short so that you sort of trick him into working well before he gets to tantrum stage, then you should be able to increase it to longer

He sounds clever but maybe like he is too used to his routine, and doesn't like the change?...

 

[ha903070]

Not sure if this relates but my big mare (lthough she doesnt rear or plunge) is very objectionate to school if it isnt done regularly enough and its a case of riding through it - easier said than done, she eventually comes right after lots of fights etc. She is more a bucker and kicker when she comes back into work.

Some horses need to be regularly schooled, I find it helps her attitude in every respect, but if I let it slip like in the snow this winter where we didnt ride for a while we were back to fighting all the time. She eventually learns that she will have to do it though.

 

[charlie76]

He is 8 and 16.3hh.
Let me give an example. 3 days ago I was schooling him. He was going sweetly in walk and trot and did some okish leg yeild. Had a canter, he starting to bowl on, I gently half halted him, he flung his head up and took off round half the school with his ears up my nose. I then pull him up, he stops dead and stands up.
Back to trot, he starts rushing forward, I slow him down, he stands up.
Take him onto a circle to regain balance, starts falling in, I straighten him with my outside rein, he chucks his head,stops dead and rears.
Eventually get him to do as he is told.
I then finish him and halt, he goes to walk off, I re apply the aids to halt, he rears vertical.

Last night he reared with OH everytime he asked him not to bowl on until in the end he got off of him and I had to get on and sort it out- fun.

 

[charlie76]

We school/lunge/hack him everyday.

 

[Chloe_GHE]

Hhhhhmmmmmm crikey
Sorry then I think I've run out of ideas, I'm clueless!

 

[LEC]

What about working him every time you have a tantrum you get off him and lunge him until he is puffing, get back on and try again if he does what you want a pat and a polo and a chance to relax. Keep doing this so that he learns that when he does what you want he is rewarded and its a much more pleasant experience.

 

[seabiscuit]

What about trying Bowen therapy?
It may really help- always seems to make them more correct in the way they are going, very soft and willing to work.

 

[Tempi]

Have PMd you

 

[charlie76]

lec, we do that frequently! It makes no difference.
The annoying thing with him is that he never does it at shows, he is always in the low 30's late 20's in the dressage at his events and has never been unplaced dressage.
So, you are prob wondering why we worry but its so frustrating as you can't school to the next level at home.

 

[MegaBeast]

may sound daft but if he's fine at shows, what's he like if you take him to an arena other than your own? Maybe could try hiring a local school a few times and see if it's just an "at home" issue

 

[Mickeymoo]

Why don't you do your schooling away from the yard. Hire out a manage and do your next level there. I know its a pain having to do this from experience. I did all my canter work in the early days away from home, basically bacause the manage at yard was not a good surface and I couldn't challenge him on it. By challange, I mean simply asking for a circle in canter before anyone shoots me down. xx

 

[charlie76]

Sorry, tried that. We have lessons elsewhere- still a git.
At the end of our tether TBH.

 

[Booboos]

Sounds like you have really checked for physical problems, but just in case something has been missed, it might be worth trying him on painkillers for 3 weeks to see what happens. It's a long shot, but there might be somethign causing pain that hasn't surfaced in his exams so far and his behaviour may improve on the pain killers. Might be worth a try if you are running out of options.

 

[loopeepee]

He sounds like an arse TBH, and I comend you for continuing with him, I wouldn't! I had one like that, I had him for about a month. He was the superstar horse when away from home - we did a couple of hunter trials which he was in the placings for, and had a group SJ lesson, which he was perfect for. I then schooled him at home, and he turned into a raving git. There's personality, and then there is dangerous; he stood up in front of a car because I asked him to stop at a junction. And another time, I was schooling and he went vertical and back over on me, for asking to come back from a forward canter. He battered my confidence, and after a while I just thought he's not worth it, maybe for someone else, but not me.
You've got balls for continuing with yours, Tommy had top class potential, and decent lines, but it was never going to go anywhere for me if everything was a constant battle of wills

 

[j1ffy]

No idea, but can you warn me if me and Boss are ever in the school with you and the horse in question..?!

Sounds like I may want to do a quick first aid course first.

As per LooPeePee's comments, be careful!

 

[wizzi901]

QR

I dont mind being shot down in flames!!

Personally as a last resort I would try radionics....

1) dont know how it can work, but it has on several horses we have had.

2) its pretty inexpensive and non invasive.

3) its not a lot to lose if it doesnt work compared to other options.

H if you want to know more speak to Mel W, her dad uses it a lot with some of the racehorses....and he is NOT one to chuck money away, like most farmers!!

http://www.radionic.co.uk

there is local lady on there.

I know it sound hocus pocus but I have seen it work having slated it as being mumbo jumbo!!!

 

[charlie76]

I think I might try the radionics- anything is worth a try.
Justajiffy- you get used to it after a while!!
I am riding Boss today on my training- will let you know how he goes.

rode him yesterday for 20 minutes during the day and he was really good and just had one tiny blip. Then we rode him again for another 30 minutes in the evening as thought maybe to shorter sessions was the way to go with him. He was good for about 10 minutes and was going really well and then he decided to throw a paddy beacause he was half halted in the trot. This turned into a total strop everytime you asked him to slow down.
I'm afraid to say and clouted him one as there was no reason for it.

 

[RobinHood]

It sounds as if you've covered every angle but you haven't mentioned riding him on bute, apologies if I missed it.