Horse bolted on hack

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Smokey/irish

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Hello everyone I am looking for some advice with no hate.
i have just brought my first horse a 15hh connie cross who is 7 he is very good on flat and has amaizng ground manners. I have had him 3 months and have moved to a new yard where we have been hacking out alone for the first couple of days and he was fine on walked and trotted and he was amazing listened to me and was good was never strong or silly. Then yesterday we went out with another horse and he was strong in his trot and his walk was on a mission. And then we had a canter and he was fine for a couple of strides and them went at a full gallop in the middle of the woods he then darted off into a dog walkers path and carried on a high speed not lisening to anything i was doing or my aids. He was uncontrollable i was unable to do a one rain stop as the path he darted onto was nit even intended for horse it was a small path for dog walkers he them hurdled into a bush as the path was wibbly wobbly and then jumped out of it and carried on the path was only a meter amd a half wide if that. I them rode him though it as it was the only thing left I could do and was speaking to him asking to to woah and slow down, he was still at a gallop and his head was up. I them smacked him on the shoulder with my whip and bent him side ways so he couldn’t see with both eyes this eventually slowed him down and he went back to walk.
I have spoken to him old trainer who sold him and it seems he has never been taught how to contain his canter on a hack he was road haccked which we were told when brought that he was a perfect boy to hack out. So I am going to put him in a dutch gag and a standing martingale to see if that helps but is their any advice on how to train him to be contained in the canter on a hack or will he be like this forever? the trainer has offered to come and hack him out and i am going to take her up on this but i am only going to hack him in walk and trot and many transitions and just not canter. Such a shame as I Planned to do beach ride and cross contry with him. Any advice on how to train this to be safe and controllable will be greatly appreciatedxx
 
charterline said:
What you described is tanking to off, not bolting. Bolting is where they have lost their head and will run over and through anything
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I agree that it was not a true bolt but sounds frightening and came out of the blue, the OP sounds sensible enough and has already taken steps with how to move on, my first thought is that you did the right thing pulling him round until he couldn't keep going the only problem is you did not do it sooner so he went a long way, it sounds harsh but if he ever tries again react very quickly, do not give him the benefit of the doubt, this time you had no idea he was going to keep running so waited, used less effective aids and inadvertently 'allowed' him to keep going or possibly lack of instant correction made him feel a bit unsure, next time, although if you do plenty of work with him there may not be one, react immediately and use the one rein stop, if you have overreacted he will forgive you and if you stop him before he gets going he will have learned, and so will you, that he cannot run off that you can remain in control.

I think putting a stronger bit in is no bad thing, it will give you confidence and may help if he goes again but the key will be training, hack in walk and trot using transitions to keep him listening, do plenty of canter work in a safe area, school or field, again transitions, work him fairly hard, get to the stage where he allows you to go into 2 point, back to sitting, to open up and come back until he barely needs asking to stop cantering and build up your trust in him before cantering outside.

If you do the right type of work you should end up with a well mannered horse that you can canter, gallop and have fun on, it sounds as if he has had a good start but just missed out on doing some off road hacking, cantering with another horse and that once he has learned what is required he will be fine, it may take a while and you may have to plan ahead as to where you will canter, never in the same place until he is really responsive, but you should get there if you take things slowly.
 
That does sound like a scary experience.

I wouldn't give up hope, often when something goes a bit wrong, a horse will panic and it all snowballs. You do sound very sensible, but not that experienced, so I can quite see that if the horse was in a strange area; wound up to start with by being in company; had his first canter outside of an arena; ended up on a narrow track, then I can quite see how it all went wrong as I suspect you will also have gripped with your legs, whether you realised it at the time or not.

I would go back to an arena, get cantering to make sure the control is there. Then, I never give first canters on a restricted track, I take them to an open area and do some schooling. So, starting at walk in the open area, mark out an area in your mind to work in, then when all is well do some trot. Transitions both within the pace and through paces, in the open. That would be maybe enough for one time, but next time, if all is good you will find that a canter in the 'schooling' area is easy.

Once you have cantered in the open on this imaginary 'schooling area' then start to make loops out of this area. Enlarge the area until you can do a lap of the field.

I would do this a few times until you could come to the field, trot a lap and canter a lap.

The important thing is that, if the horse becomes excited, you can instantly move to circles and turns to engage the brain and body. Work through the issue and go large again.

After all that then I would consider cantering in the woods, but not if the horse is already having an off day. In the woods I would do many transitions, have a 3 stride canter and trot again and build up from there (but only if he is not bracing against you).

You will probably say that you don't have a large field area to work in, and I get that as neither do I. I simply hire out. Two places I use are actually XC courses. I can do an initial warm up in a proper school, then move to a small field, get working in there before setting out onto the XC courses, but in both of those there is still space to turn (plus it is all enclosed). I have also used two country parks where you pay to go, but also have a schooling field do do the work before heading out.

I have also hired 2 gallops. They too have an arena to warm up and get cantering. You couldn't turn on them, but at least if I had misjudged it and the horse went for it, it is safe and the horse would likely run himself out with no safety issues!

I would also work on how he feels about company. The open field is ideal as you both walk there, then split up to do the walk work, and if there is double education of field/open space and also company then that first session may even be in walk, so you can both work independently within an imaginary school area, overtaking, meeting head on left to left or right to right etc.

No, the venues I use are not close to where I live. Nearest accessible safe open space is an hour away by box. With a young horse, to educate it, there is work to do, that there maybe would not be with a more established one. It is an art to produce a youngster. If you have suitable facilities to hand then that is great, if not, and you want a confident and reliable baby, then the work has to be done by travelling.
 
Shame on the people who sold him to you .
They have now admitted they have sold you a horse with a dangerous flaw .
I would seek to return him .
 
Goldenstar said:
Shame on the people who sold him to you .
They have now admitted they have sold you a horse with a dangerous flaw .
I would seek to return him .
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I am normally fairly quick to say miss sold send it back ASAP but in this case I am not sure it was, the horse was bought 3 months ago when the ground was still muddy, we have no idea how long the trainer owned/ had it on the yard for, the OP was told it was perfect to hack but had it ever cantered anywhere other than in an enclosed area, it seems to be good on the roads and in walk/ trot but set off for whatever reason when asked for a canter, they could not stop for a while but it does not sound like a true bolt, in this case it may well be that the seller had genuinely had no cantering opportunities out hacking over the very long winter, they have responded properly by offering to go and ride it, that is not offered very often, I think the OP needs to give it a chance as it seems the horse is good in every other way and this could well be resolved without it needing to go back.
 
Goldenstar said:
This horse could have killed the two walkers .
The seller knew it was bad in canter in such situations .
It must never be put in that situation in a public place again .
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I think you are misreading some awkwardly written text GS. I'm not reading that there were any walkers on the path, just that it was a walkers' path the horse was on.

Also many people who write 'full gallop' don't actually know what a flat out gallop is, and are describing a fast canter, and I have assumed it's that in this case.

The seller is coming out to ride the horse and sold it as not having cantered on hacks. I don't really see it as having been missold.

.
 
ycbm said:
I think you are misreading some awkwardly written text GS. I'm not reading that there were any walkers on the path, just that it was a walkers' path the horse was on.

Also many people who write 'full gallop' don't actually know what a flat out gallop is, and are describing a fast canter, and I have assumed it's that in this case.

The seller is coming out to ride the horse and sold it as not having cantered on hacks. I don't really see it as having been missold.

.
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agree. tbh sound like a green horse that thought cantering with a mate was jolly fun, found himself in front, horse panicked and so did rider (no blame at all btw)

OP you've had good advice, and i think a stronger bit will give you confidence which is probably all you need as you seem generally level headed :)

the more you do it (cantering hacking) and the more you enforce the rules the better he will get. He just sounds over enthusiastic not dangerous.
 
It shows how people read the same info differently when there is a lack of clarity in how it is written, I read 'dog walkers path' as being a path for dog walkers, you probably read it as dog walkers on the path, same words different interpretation.

The same with not learned to contain his canter on a hack I read it as probably not cantered on hacks because it had only done roadwork.
If the seller has problems when they ride it they may well offer to have it back, it would not be the first time a horse has missed a bit of education, not everyone is decent enough to offer to help 3 months after the sale so I would give it a chance.

I am pleased ycbm reads it the same as me because when I first tried to unravel it early this morning it did take a while for my brain to understand what happened.

Over the years I have had the odd call about something going wrong with one I sold, usually it was easy to resolve, often over the phone, I would be very upset to be told to take one back 3 months later without having the opportunity to help, I have also had many arrive here that acted differently to what was expected, if hacking is a priority then it really needs to be tested before purchase not 3 months later, plenty would take the mick if they had not cantered on grass for months.
 
Goldenstar said:
Shame on the people who sold him to you .
They have now admitted they have sold you a horse with a dangerous flaw .
I would seek to return him .
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I would tend to agree with this ^^^

Normally I would suggest that there may be a pain issue involved somewhere but from the description of what happened I would rather suspect this was just high-spiritedness and frankly sheer bad manners! He's obviously done this before, and I'm afraid there is a serious risk he may do it again.

At the end of the day you have your safety to consider.

I'd send it back if you can. Certainly I would expect the "trainer" to at least work with you to effect some remedial work.
 
That sounds like a really scary experience for you. The only bits of advice I’d add are:

1) make sure you have everything you need to feel safe and secure - body protector, neck strap, safety stirrups etc.

2) some horses are more sparky in company as they think they are racing. It might be worth trying on your own for a bit (for safety with a willing foot soldier!) before cantering again in company.

3) choose your canter spot with care - if there’s a nice steep hill near you then make the most of that as it’s much harder work for them

4) plenty of schooling and canter work in the arena. My Connie could tank when I first got him but lots of schooling in the arena really helped as it taught him to listen, come back in response to a half halt and have different gears in the canter. I can now hold him out hacking in a nice dressage canter whilst others bog off around him!

5) try and get a feel for what works and what winds him up. For my boy, lots of transitions is the best way to go from chilled to wired in 60 seconds ? similarly trying to school on the XC course made him furious (!) but after one speedy canter lap around the field he was happy to walk on the buckle. They are all individuals at the end of the day!

Best of luck, I really hope you can get this sorted safely. Hopefully the seller might be able to help too x
 
I think anything will do this if the circumstance are tipped that way, its avoiding the circumstances.
A pony of mine ran away with me on a hack, up hill, had never done it before in five years of ownership. The circumstances were I was trying a saddle and as we broke in to canter it tipped me forward and she just got faster and faster.Not really her fault, I had a oh sh*t moment when we were coming to a wall at the top of the hill, and I some how managed to turn her and stop before I fell off. Out of the two of us I do not know who was more shocked.
I trained my kids to ride their ponies in vast hay meadows from being very small, and the trick for cantering is pick your time, if you have not done it before make sure the brake is in front, and when you shout stop everyone stops. You can never expect a child to pull a pony up in full flight so its teaching them to avoid situations where its likely to happen and the pony that stop really means stop.
To me this event just shows the horse needs more miles on the clock in a controlled situation, and avoid that the trigger until you know it completely controllable. This is why I always say it takes two years to train a horse, because every time you do something for the first time you have to be prepared with plan B. If they become unbalanced they tend to go faster, like running with a wheel barrow downhill, if they get an adrenaline rush, that feeds in to fear, flight response and they want to get away from what now is frightening you.
Apart from schooling it I would spend more time hacking with a steady horse and person, someone who you know at the first sign of trouble will be calm, and stop if you need to use them as a brake.
This are things that have worked well for me.
Only canter when you have taken the steam out of them, a good long trot to take the edge off. Do not allow the trot to get faster,bring them back into walk, regain balance and control. And sing, I know it sounds daft but it really relieves tension, and you breath.
Never canter in the same place every time, and I know hacking is restricted in most places but try and keep doing something different.
Never canter towards home.
The time you have owned this horse is not long, summer will bring a lot of firsts of everything, its just about being aware and you make a team.
 
Must admit, a horse going through a bush and straight out the other side again is as close to a bolt as I'd be comfortable to get - regardless of the 'true description,' of one!

OP - I know it might be a little rash, but I'd be really considering selling him back. The seller was really quite dishonest about his behavior which could be potentially down right dangerous.
 
Honetpot speaks good sense. The horse just sounds rather green to me and a relatively inexperienced rider was taken by surprise. Take sensible steps to be one step ahead of him and anticipate where problems may arise. It seems this was rather more exciting hacking than he was used to. I'd ride more in company in walk and trot and do lots of work doing transitions along the way to instill obedience and brakes. And that stop means stop! I taught my kids at an early age that you don't sit and wait for them to get away from you if they are getting faster and faster (in whatever pace). There is almost always a moment when a horse starts to go (unless it is in a real panic) when it is almost hesitating waiting to be stopped. That is your chance to take decisive action - don't worry about "hurting his mouth" which is what my daughter used to worry about. Pull his back teeth out if that is what it takes to stop him, even better spin on a circle if there is space (appreciate their wasn't space here). If he knows you can stop and stay in control this will likely not happen again. We had a pony which would do this with a small, weak rider. Never even tried it with a stronger rider. Be the latter. Please leave the beach rides and Xcountry until you have him reliably under control on your hacks. Don't let him develop this habit and I'm sure you have all the fun to come together. 3 months with a horse is early days getting to know each other.
 
Snickett said:
OP - I know it might be a little rash, but I'd be really considering selling him back. The seller was really quite dishonest about his behavior which could be potentially down right dangerous.
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Why was the seller dishonest? It bugs me when its assumed this person was missold a horse, when ultimately they did say it has only done roadwork and not cantered on hacks - I see no lying here?

OP, I would just stop hacking meantime and spend time on cantering at home, on XC course etc. (more controlled environments).
 
MagicMelon said:
Why was the seller dishonest? It bugs me when its assumed this person was missold a horse, when ultimately they did say it has only done roadwork and not cantered on hacks - I see no lying here?

OP, I would just stop hacking meantime and spend time on cantering at home, on XC course etc. (more controlled environments).
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I was under the impression it was after the horse was purchased that the comment about the lack of control out cantering was made, but maybe I've mis-read. The OPs original post said she was told he was perfect to hack out.
 
Smokey/irish said:
Hello everyone I am looking for some advice with no hate.
i have just brought my first horse a 15hh connie cross who is 7 he is very good on flat and has amaizng ground manners. I have had him 3 months and have moved to a new yard where we have been hacking out alone for the first couple of days and he was fine on walked and trotted and he was amazing listened to me and was good was never strong or silly. Then yesterday we went out with another horse and he was strong in his trot and his walk was on a mission. And then we had a canter and he was fine for a couple of strides and them went at a full gallop in the middle of the woods he then darted off into a dog walkers path and carried on a high speed not lisening to anything i was doing or my aids. He was uncontrollable i was unable to do a one rain stop as the path he darted onto was nit even intended for horse it was a small path for dog walkers he them hurdled into a bush as the path was wibbly wobbly and then jumped out of it and carried on the path was only a meter amd a half wide if that. I them rode him though it as it was the only thing left I could do and was speaking to him asking to to woah and slow down, he was still at a gallop and his head was up. I them smacked him on the shoulder with my whip and bent him side ways so he couldn’t see with both eyes this eventually slowed him down and he went back to walk.
I have spoken to him old trainer who sold him and it seems he has never been taught how to contain his canter on a hack he was road haccked which we were told when brought that he was a perfect boy to hack out. So I am going to put him in a dutch gag and a standing martingale to see if that helps but is their any advice on how to train him to be contained in the canter on a hack or will he be like this forever? the trainer has offered to come and hack him out and i am going to take her up on this but i am only going to hack him in walk and trot and many transitions and just not canter. Such a shame as I Planned to do beach ride and cross contry with him. Any advice on how to train this to be safe and controllable will be greatly appreciatedxx
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Hi just read this threat from few months ago ? Just wondered how you got on as I have had a similar experience with a new horse. X
 
Although not "a true bolt" it was pretty close to it and a frightening experience. The horse wasn't coming back under control and was ignoring the rider, who I thought sounded not too upset. Other advice good, but it would be a worry if you planned to go on group rides and out in open places.
 
:0) said:
Hi just read this threat from few months ago ? Just wondered how you got on as I have had a similar experience with a new horse. X
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I'm not the OP but I could have written their post. I had bought J on a 4 week trial - 3 weeks in, having had lovely hacks alone and with others, on a quiet bit of track I asked canter on a hack for the first time and got handstanding bucks followed by "bolt" for home. It was much more bog off, but like the OP we blindly went through things that sensible horses would have slowed for/jumped. I had a long think about whether J stayed or went as safe hacking was my #1 priority.

The advice given to the OP is brilliant and is essentially what I did.

We had lessons and really worked on transitions and control in the school. When we hacked we did 1000's of transitions - it took hours to do a 40minute hack(!). If I was going around a field I'd school in a corner before going round the next side. If I asked for a canter out I'd almost immediately ask for trot so she never got thinking about going. I tended to hack on my own so that I could control exactly what we did and in doing so we built up lots of trust in each other as well. Six years on, I am incredibly glad that I decided to work through and not just send her back. I'm not going to say that she's 100% bombproof on a hack (as advertised - but like the OP I later discovered she'd never cantered on a hack) but she's pretty close. I hope you and the OP have similar success.
 
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